oldnews Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 How so? I am laughing at someone who seems to think Bieksa and cheap contract should be in the same sentence. I think that's more then warranted. I am well aware Rypien and Bieksa were very good friends....doesn't mean I have to think highly of Bieksa myself. Don't be so up tight. What's he worth then? He's been a 40+ pt defenseman three times. He's a +10 this year and has been +60 over the past three seasons. He has 59 hits and 58 blocked shots this year. He's right next to Hamhuis with the best underlying numbers on the blueline partnered with an (albeit very solid) rookie. He is easily the toughest presence on the Canucks blueline and the first guy to answer. There are a whole lot of lesser defensemen making more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawkdrummer Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 He's back and a local guy as well. The dude plays every position and well. Versatile or what? Santorelli is very deserving of 2-3 year contract similar to what Hansen and Higgins are being paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VANCITYCANUCKS_604 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I'm still weighing the pros and cons of signing him. If we do re-sign him, I'd say $1.8 for one year or $1.5 per for 2 years assuming he keeps this production up. Would be great if we can keep him to be in our bottom 6 and fill in for injures. Also, to get a legitimate top 6 forward through FA or trade. Pros - Can play anywhere in top 9, adds depth - Two-way game, works hard, adds points, fits in well - Local guy, can probably get a discounted price if re-signed Cons - Have enough 3rd line type forwards (Higgins, Hansen) - Not ideal for top6 on contending team or 3rd line centre - Cap space better used to get top6 forward - Takes up roster spot, better served for Horvat etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 4 x 2.5 or 2x3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rypien37 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 What's he worth then? He's been a 40+ pt defenseman three times. He's a +10 this year and has been +60 over the past three seasons. He has 59 hits and 58 blocked shots this year. He's right next to Hamhuis with the best underlying numbers on the blueline partnered with an (albeit very solid) rookie. He is easily the toughest presence on the Canucks blueline and the first guy to answer. There are a whole lot of lesser defensemen making more. I won't argue with you there....no question. He is still overpaid. For him to flourish...ideally...he should be at best a #5 guy. I don't care if he gets 50 points, his defensive play is not worth it. Especially his routinely horrible reads, pinches and casual puck handling. I wonder how pissed the forwards get covering for him at the point basically every shift. Love his grit, fighting ability (although he REALLY picks his spots) and heart....but that's about it. Personally, I'm surprised he ever became a D-man. His style of play suits a 2nd/3rd line PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I won't argue with you there....no question. He is still overpaid. For him to flourish...ideally...he should be at best a #5 guy. I don't care if he gets 50 points, his defensive play is not worth it. Especially his routinely horrible reads, pinches and casual puck handling. I wonder how pissed the forwards get covering for him at the point basically every shift. Love his grit, fighting ability (although he REALLY picks his spots) and heart....but that's about it. Personally, I'm surprised he ever became a D-man. His style of play suits a 2nd/3rd line PF. Had Bieksa been a UFA last summer he likely would have had offers in the $6m region. He's better in his own end than he's given credit for and I'd say the best on the team at reading pinches. Btw, when a d-man pinches a forward is supposed to cover the point. Which is better than the opposing player simply clearing the puck unopposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 What I love about Santo is his 2 way play. Guy is so dependable defensively, and lots of take aways per game/wins puck battles. Guy is a trooper. Hope he can stick around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 He is a good solid player (my favorite rite now) but he has past conditioning issues I think a bonus laden contract is best in this situation due to his last contract and what R.F. said on 1040 It will keep the player focused in the off season IMO 2-4 years at 1 million dollar base With a 1 million dollar bonus if he averages over .5 PPG And a 2 million dollar bonus if he averages over .7 PPG Or something along those lines I think we will start to see (or should start to see) a lot of contracts like how Iggy was signed in BOSTON Santorelli is a 25 year old veteran. Only entry level contracts and players signing over the age of 35 can have incentives in their contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nuckist Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 He is a hometown boy, can play center or wing, great in shootouts, can move up and down the line-up, has shown chemistry with everyone he has played with, kills penalties, blocks shots, scores goals, great forecheck,...... What are the arguments against re-signing him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rypien37 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Had Bieksa been a UFA last summer he likely would have had offers in the $6m region. He's better in his own end than he's given credit for and I'd say the best on the team at reading pinches. Btw, when a d-man pinches a forward is supposed to cover the point. Which is better than the opposing player simply clearing the puck unopposed. Yes.....I know that. Did you read what I said? I said forwards must be pissed because he pinches EVERY shift so they HAVE to cover for him, basically playing his position for the entire shift. When you are a forward, especially a winger on the PP, you'd like to be below the hash marks trying to make plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon4401 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I won't argue with you there....no question. He is still overpaid. For him to flourish...ideally...he should be at best a #5 guy. I don't care if he gets 50 points, his defensive play is not worth it. Especially his routinely horrible reads, pinches and casual puck handling. I wonder how pissed the forwards get covering for him at the point basically every shift. Love his grit, fighting ability (although he REALLY picks his spots) and heart....but that's about it. Personally, I'm surprised he ever became a D-man. His style of play suits a 2nd/3rd line PF. Defensive play like Letang? Bieksa is a good shutdown d for us and he is really helping Stanton to develop and become a player for the future...He is worth that contract any day on almost every team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freaky Freak Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Santo is my favorite story of the year and I love how he has started the season and think he will be here for years to come Santorelli is a 25 year old veteran. Only entry level contracts and players signing over the age of 35 can have incentives in their contracts. I had no idea that was in the CBA (new to me) Thanks But what a stupid clause that can make a 22 yr old to 35 yr old be unproductive till each contract year How stupid Then I say 2 year deals at about 1.5 - 2 million a season (it increases each new contract) to start 2014 - 2016 I think his past issues are injury related than conditioning. Could be wrong, but being in the condition he is right now usually comes from long term commitment. Ray F. was talking about Kassian on 1040 and brought up Santo and said that if we think he has always been this in shape then we do not know who he was before and that it takes usually 3-5 years for a young player to figure things out (he even said go back to his junior pictures and that Santo was a bit of a DOE BOY) And that he thinks Santo has just finally figured out how to play and stay in the NHL And it started this summer with conditioning and skating in the off season (which he had never concentrated on in the past) So hearing this and seeing players in the past that are CONDITIONING SENSITIVE (Buff D.D. E Kane ect) we should keep Santo playing the same as he has been (INCREDIBLE) with 2 year contracts until a bonus laden contract is allowed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleShield Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I'd be open to trading him at the deadline if some other GM got a bit excited. With Sedin, Kesler and Horvat as our top 3 centres next year, Santorelli can't be looking for much if he wants to get resigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon4401 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I'd be open to trading him at the deadline if some other GM got a bit excited. With Sedin, Kesler and Horvat as our top 3 centres next year, Santorelli can't be looking for much if he wants to get resigned. Thing is Santo can play center and the wing...there is no guarantee Horvat will make the lineup next year...Be a mistake to let him walk since he can play any role needed well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebeaun Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 No, unless it's for peanuts again. We've gotta leave spots open for guys like Horvat, Gaunce, or Shinkaruk. Signing third liners when we've already got an abundance of them makes no sense. We need all the cap space we can get for upgrading the top 6. I don't really like saying it because he seems like such a nice guy and it's an awesome story, but I kind of agree with not re-signing him unless it's relatively inexpensive and I would prefer a two way deal. (I know it isn't realistic) He has been an excellent signing, a huge bonus from what was expected and it's a great story. But he isn't a top six forward on a serious playoff contendng team unless he is surrounded with some size which we don't have. I don't like him in the mix for the bottom six come next year with our prospects and the legit need for a solid third line center that can eat up minutes and play a strong defensive game (Horvat). Maybe we trade him to a team that will give him a legit longer term deal now that he has proven himself. This way he gets an opportunity and we get rewarded for giving him an opportunity. If not I think we try and retain him but I wouldn't spend alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 I don't really like saying it because he seems like such a nice guy and it's an awesome story, but I kind of agree with not re-signing him unless it's relatively inexpensive and I would prefer a two way deal. (I know it isn't realistic) He has been an excellent signing, a huge bonus from what was expected and it's a great story. But he isn't a top six forward on a serious playoff contendng team unless he is surrounded with some size which we don't have. I don't like him in the mix for the bottom six come next year with our prospects and the legit need for a solid third line center that can eat up minutes and play a strong defensive game (Horvat). Maybe we trade him to a team that will give him a legit longer term deal now that he has proven himself. This way he gerts an opportunity and we get rewarded for helping find a opportunity. If not I think we try an retain hm but I wouldn't spend alot. Trade Hansen then re-sign Santo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebeaun Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Trade Hansen then re-sign Santo. I can get on board with this. Hansen just doesn't seem to fit into this current player mix. Not that I don't think he belongs in the league. Sometimes the fit isn't right on a certain team based on needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Should we resign Santo....dumbest question ever. almost Milburyesque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teen Icarus Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 sign him 2 years, 1.75/year if we can - a little more money, but he still has to prove himself. You don't just pass up on guys who've been playing as well as he has. Plus, Torts loves him and would have a fit if Santo left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 There is no doubt that Santa has far outplayed what has been expected from him. However, don't forget that: 1) He also played one good year for Florida, then dropped off. He may do so for us. 2) This season isn't nearly finished yet. Let's see if he can maintain his great play with a larger sample size. 2) We really won't need him once players like Horvat can fill a top-line role. If he continues playing like this I would suggest he is signed for 1 more year. 2 might be pushing it, but would be an option. It all depends on how much he wants. He obviously deserves a raise, but would a salary of 1M be enough? If so, I say resign him for sure. 1.5? Sure - for 1 more year only. Once we start talking 2m+, I start getting very wary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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