Salacious Crumb Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Interesting point! Does that mean Raymond was never really given a chance with quality players and ice-time here in Vancouver? IIRC his breakout year was with Kesler and Samuelsson, and the year after we got Booth. Him, Higgins, Hansen, and Booth bounced back and forth between the 2nd and 3rd lines. Now Raymond is used in a scoring role playing with guys like Kessel, Lupul, Kadri, Clarkson, and Bolland. Or is it simply Toronto's offensive system more suited to Raymond's style of play? The only 2 things that can truly motivate a man are love and fear. Mayray is playing for his NHL life...he easliy could have ended up finishing his career in Europe so he is actually venturing in from the perimiter on occasion. The skate sharpener in Toronto might be better than ours because he seems to be staying upright more often as well. With the cap going up next year hopefully he can catch on with a team that has hope going forward. Leafs suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 It's not like MayRay wasn't given a chance to succeed here. He had more opportunity then many players get in a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 It's not like MayRay wasn't given a chance to succeed here. He had more opportunity then many players get in a lifetime. yep. AV loved him and gave him more than enough opportunities. I'm happy for him but he really needed a change in scenery. I havent watched enough Leaf's hockey to know whether he has changed his style and is attacking the net more ferociously this year OR whether his playing style is just more suited for the East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Stoch Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 He really needed a fresh start with a new team and our team has enough of these border line top six players that should be more suited to the third line. He's only doing so well right now because he just realized his NHL career depends on it after being signed last minute for only 1 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Conference bias is mainly all BS. The region you play in doesn't add or subtract from a players abilities. Mason Raymond vs the West Games:12 Goals: 5 Assists: 4 Points: 9 Raymond actually has a higher PPG against the West. 9 points in 12 games against the West while he has 10 points in 16 games against the East (5 goals, 5 assists). The teams in the West are far better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 This sums up Raymond in less than 1 minute. Right. One goal, where he got outmuscled by a guy twice his size... What it really sums up is the ignorance and narrow-mindedness that exists on a consistent basis around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Both the Canucks and Raymond needed a change. He's doing well with the Leafs, but I highly doubt he'd have the same opportunity he has there in Vancouver this season. The fact it took him as long as it did to get a contract speaks volumes as to where his game was at. We're not the only team who chose not to sign him. All this being said, I'm glad he's turned things around. I like the guy and hope he can find himself a long term home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Right. One goal, where he got outmuscled by a guy twice his size... What it really sums up is the ignorance and narrow-mindedness that exists on a consistent basis around here. If anyone here is ignorant and narrow-minded, it's you, thinking this the only bad play made by Raymond and that it's not his fault for what happened. And also great job repeating what everyone else writes on this forum, the "ignorant and narrow-minded" part. I really never seen that on this website before, honestly. If you read the title and then watch that video you will understand where I'm coming from. It's actually quite a valid argument when you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The teams in the West are far better. That wasn't the topic. It was implied that Raymond's success was because he was playing in the East. The stats I posted were simply to show Raymond was playing well against both conferences and the "superior" Western Conference was not doing anything to slow him down. But I really think the people who actually believe the conference bias are just homers/naive. Before the season even started when polls were popular on CDC most members actually thought the Red Wings would not only win the conference but had a shot at 130 points plus simply because they played in the East. The bias also implies that the Western conference is so much harder that when Eastern players go to the West they see a drop in stats while Western players going East will see a boost in stats. Yet most players who switch conferences maintain a similar point ratio and in some cases see a decline going to the west or increase going to the east. Not to mention since the year 2000 13 cups have been awarded and the West processes 7 cups to the East's 6 cups. Yes a slight tilt to the West but very evenly spit. And if you want to look at the actual teams 5 Western teams have won since then (Blackhawks, Red Wings, Avs, Kings, and Ducks) and 5 Eastern teams have won (Devils, Lightning, Hurricane, Penguins, and Bruins) Of course sometimes players benefit or are hurt from playing in different systems but that isn't relevant to geography. My point was even if certain people don't care about letting him go Raymond has developed into a solid top 6 player and the conference argument is simply a weak one when it comes to evaluating a players development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter.S-Kerouac Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I have always supported MayRay on CDC. during His rookie campaign he bacame one of my favorite players. That said if I had to choose right now between him and santorelli im sure glad santa came to town. the team needed a change as much a he did. He and grabner are so much better off. Because the canucks could never use them properly. Don't get me wrong Grabner Kes Raymo was a great line but game 7 against the bruins would anybody pick them to be the difference makers. (obviously raymond was injured at the time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 If anyone here is ignorant and narrow-minded, it's you, thinking this the only bad play made by Raymond and that it's not his fault for what happened. And also great job repeating what everyone else writes on this forum, the "ignorant and narrow-minded" part. I really never seen that on this website before, honestly. If you read the title and then watch that video you will understand where I'm coming from. It's actually quite a valid argument when you think about it. No. It isn't. And I have my own opinion of what's ignorant and narrow-minded when it comes to hockey. It's been honed by over 45 years as a player, coach and referee. Raymond certainly has made other "bad" plays, however, to suggest that the play in the video that you posted is indicative of what he brings to the table, you're either biased against him, or lack the ability to evaluate a player's strengths and weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Just wait until he gets into playoff form.. Which in other words is to do his best Casper impression. The thing is, you have to make the playoffs... The extra 10 goals that Raymond has scored to date (the same total as Daniel) could make the difference between making the playoffs or missing them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Raymond's departure was a good thing for him and a good thing for the Canucks. There's no victim here, folks, and nothing to be angry about either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzam Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 It was time for the team to move on with Raymond. I have no problem with MG not re-signing him. But Raymond deserved more than a try out to begin the preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbanks Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 last year was his first year back healthy from his broken back...... he got 10 g and 12 a in a half season.... wich pretty much says he was back to being a 20 goal scorer.... and that wasnt enough apparently ... higgins pulls chute just as fast if not faster when it comes to a big game and he had even less points than Mayray last year and makes more money.... last 9 playoff games (last 2 seasons) higgins 0 points -5 mayray 1g 2a -1 higgins 2.5m cap hit raymond 1m....... kassian gets knocked off the puck just as easy as mayray only difference there is if kassian gets the puck in the high slot or in the circles he has 0 chance of scoring where raymond can bury . i was always on team raymond it was just another blunder by our GM who is a terrible judge of talent... guess gillis just didnt want to keep 20 goals on our roster for 1m... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebeaun Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Pretty much as per the above. He is better off in the east where checking isnt as tight and physical. The play tends to be more wide open and less grinding. He seemed to play timid here. I get that after the injury, but it was frustrating and time to move on. The fact he wasn't offered a contract and he needed to step up his play probably helped too. Good luck Mason keepit up and keep your head up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chauncey Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Well I don't necessarily like Raymond, he is an overrated goof, however, Max Pacioretty avenged him yesterday and I am proud to say I am a Max Pacioretty fan now. Im gonna get his jersey. I really hope GMMG makes a pitch for the guy. Would love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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