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Mason Raymond Undervalued


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#31 Lemmy

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:23 PM

It doesn't matter. 1.) He is no longer Canuck property. 2.) Even (especially) if he continues this pace, Leafs won't be able to afford to sign him next year.
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#32 Down by the River

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:29 PM

Raymond is responsible defensively; he was quite good on the Canucks' PK.

He needed a fresh start. 28 teams didn't want to give him one, even TO only initially gave him a PTO.

"We don't need a Mason Raymond type player"

- Jay Feaster.
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

Down by the River - Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young.


#33 pimpcurtly

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:38 PM

Any of our forwards would look like studs on the leafs. :)
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#34 Laheys Liquor

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:20 PM

Just wait until he gets into playoff form.. Which in other words is to do his best Casper impression.
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#35 *16*

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:24 PM

Mason Raymond has ten goals and nine assists and is plus 5 with the Leafs in 28 games. His skill set would have been very valuable to us this year. How did we come to undervalue him so much?

new team, new linemates, new atmosphere. A change was needed and it just turned out good for Raymond.
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Thanks vintage! great work

#36 ForsbergTheGreat

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:59 PM

Raymond sucks, always has always will be a soft player
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#37 Blömqvist

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:42 PM

Conference bias is mainly all BS. The region you play in doesn't add or subtract from a players abilities.

Mason Raymond vs the West

Games:12
Goals: 5
Assists: 4
Points: 9

Raymond actually has a higher PPG against the West. 9 points in 12 games against the West while he has 10 points in 16 games against the East (5 goals, 5 assists).


Interesting point! Does that mean Raymond was never really given a chance with quality players and ice-time here in Vancouver? IIRC his breakout year was with Kesler and Samuelsson, and the year after we got Booth. Him, Higgins, Hansen, and Booth bounced back and forth between the 2nd and 3rd lines. Now Raymond is used in a scoring role playing with guys like Kessel, Lupul, Kadri, Clarkson, and Bolland. Or is it simply Toronto's offensive system more suited to Raymond's style of play?
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#38 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:17 AM

Interesting point! Does that mean Raymond was never really given a chance with quality players and ice-time here in Vancouver? IIRC his breakout year was with Kesler and Samuelsson, and the year after we got Booth. Him, Higgins, Hansen, and Booth bounced back and forth between the 2nd and 3rd lines. Now Raymond is used in a scoring role playing with guys like Kessel, Lupul, Kadri, Clarkson, and Bolland. Or is it simply Toronto's offensive system more suited to Raymond's style of play?


Nagging injuries, his shot suffered from his wrist, then back being broken. That quick release gets him a lot of his goals, his balance also suffered, and wasn't able to take advantage of his speed.

He's just healthy now. Some good players to run and gun with on TO too.
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#39 Chauncey

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 06:55 AM

Leafs suck.

Edited by Chauncey, 05 December 2013 - 07:31 AM.

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#40 roland

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:27 AM



This sums up Raymond in less than 1 minute.
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#41 Salacious Crumb

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:46 AM

Interesting point! Does that mean Raymond was never really given a chance with quality players and ice-time here in Vancouver? IIRC his breakout year was with Kesler and Samuelsson, and the year after we got Booth. Him, Higgins, Hansen, and Booth bounced back and forth between the 2nd and 3rd lines. Now Raymond is used in a scoring role playing with guys like Kessel, Lupul, Kadri, Clarkson, and Bolland. Or is it simply Toronto's offensive system more suited to Raymond's style of play?

The only 2 things that can truly motivate a man are love and fear. Mayray is playing for his NHL life...he easliy could have ended up finishing his career in Europe so he is actually venturing in from the perimiter on occasion. The skate sharpener in Toronto might be better than ours because he seems to be staying upright more often as well.
With the cap going up next year hopefully he can catch on with a team that has hope going forward. Leafs suck.
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#42 TimberWolf

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:49 AM

It's not like MayRay wasn't given a chance to succeed here. He had more opportunity then many players get in a lifetime.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#43 CanucksJay

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:41 PM

It's not like MayRay wasn't given a chance to succeed here. He had more opportunity then many players get in a lifetime.


yep. AV loved him and gave him more than enough opportunities. I'm happy for him but he really needed a change in scenery. I havent watched enough Leaf's hockey to know whether he has changed his style and is attacking the net more ferociously this year OR whether his playing style is just more suited for the East.
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#44 Butters Stoch

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:46 PM

He really needed a fresh start with a new team and our team has enough of these border line top six players that should be more suited to the third line. He's only doing so well right now because he just realized his NHL career depends on it after being signed last minute for only 1 mil.
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#45 Dogbyte

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:59 PM

Conference bias is mainly all BS. The region you play in doesn't add or subtract from a players abilities.

Mason Raymond vs the West

Games:12
Goals: 5
Assists: 4
Points: 9

Raymond actually has a higher PPG against the West. 9 points in 12 games against the West while he has 10 points in 16 games against the East (5 goals, 5 assists).


The teams in the West are far better.
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#46 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:27 PM

http://youtu.be/MXPGOsHg8FE

This sums up Raymond in less than 1 minute.


Right. One goal, where he got outmuscled by a guy twice his size...

What it really sums up is the ignorance and narrow-mindedness that exists on a consistent basis around here.
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#47 Coconuts

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 03:16 PM

Both the Canucks and Raymond needed a change. He's doing well with the Leafs, but I highly doubt he'd have the same opportunity he has there in Vancouver this season. The fact it took him as long as it did to get a contract speaks volumes as to where his game was at. We're not the only team who chose not to sign him.

All this being said, I'm glad he's turned things around. I like the guy and hope he can find himself a long term home.
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#48 roland

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 06:12 PM

Right. One goal, where he got outmuscled by a guy twice his size...

What it really sums up is the ignorance and narrow-mindedness that exists on a consistent basis around here.


If anyone here is ignorant and narrow-minded, it's you, thinking this the only bad play made by Raymond and that it's not his fault for what happened. And also great job repeating what everyone else writes on this forum, the "ignorant and narrow-minded" part. I really never seen that on this website before, honestly. If you read the title and then watch that video you will understand where I'm coming from. It's actually quite a valid argument when you think about it.
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#49 Baka

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:47 PM

The teams in the West are far better.


That wasn't the topic. It was implied that Raymond's success was because he was playing in the East. The stats I posted were simply to show Raymond was playing well against both conferences and the "superior" Western Conference was not doing anything to slow him down.

But I really think the people who actually believe the conference bias are just homers/naive. Before the season even started when polls were popular on CDC most members actually thought the Red Wings would not only win the conference but had a shot at 130 points plus simply because they played in the East.

The bias also implies that the Western conference is so much harder that when Eastern players go to the West they see a drop in stats while Western players going East will see a boost in stats. Yet most players who switch conferences maintain a similar point ratio and in some cases see a decline going to the west or increase going to the east.

Not to mention since the year 2000 13 cups have been awarded and the West processes 7 cups to the East's 6 cups. Yes a slight tilt to the West but very evenly spit. And if you want to look at the actual teams 5 Western teams have won since then (Blackhawks, Red Wings, Avs, Kings, and Ducks) and 5 Eastern teams have won (Devils, Lightning, Hurricane, Penguins, and Bruins)

Of course sometimes players benefit or are hurt from playing in different systems but that isn't relevant to geography. My point was even if certain people don't care about letting him go Raymond has developed into a solid top 6 player and the conference argument is simply a weak one when it comes to evaluating a players development.
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#50 Hunter.S-Kerouac

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 08:16 PM

I have always supported MayRay on CDC. during His rookie campaign he bacame one of my favorite players. That said if I had to choose right now between him and santorelli im sure glad santa came to town.

the team needed a change as much a he did. He and grabner are so much better off. Because the canucks could never use them properly. Don't get me wrong Grabner Kes Raymo was a great line but game 7 against the bruins would anybody pick them to be the difference makers. (obviously raymond was injured at the time.)

Edited by honey badger36, 05 December 2013 - 08:24 PM.

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#51 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:46 AM

If anyone here is ignorant and narrow-minded, it's you, thinking this the only bad play made by Raymond and that it's not his fault for what happened. And also great job repeating what everyone else writes on this forum, the "ignorant and narrow-minded" part. I really never seen that on this website before, honestly. If you read the title and then watch that video you will understand where I'm coming from. It's actually quite a valid argument when you think about it.


No. It isn't.

And I have my own opinion of what's ignorant and narrow-minded when it comes to hockey. It's been honed by over 45 years as a player, coach and referee.

Raymond certainly has made other "bad" plays, however, to suggest that the play in the video that you posted is indicative of what he brings to the table, you're either biased against him, or lack the ability to evaluate a player's strengths and weaknesses.
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#52 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:54 AM

Just wait until he gets into playoff form.. Which in other words is to do his best Casper impression.


The thing is, you have to make the playoffs...

The extra 10 goals that Raymond has scored to date (the same total as Daniel) could make the difference between making the playoffs or missing them...
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#53 Maniwaki Canuck

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:58 AM

Raymond's departure was a good thing for him and a good thing for the Canucks. There's no victim here, folks, and nothing to be angry about either.
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#54 shazzam

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:22 PM

It was time for the team to move on with Raymond. I have no problem with MG not re-signing him. But Raymond deserved more than a try out to begin the preseason.
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#55 chrisbanks

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:47 PM

last year was his first year back healthy from his broken back...... he got 10 g and 12 a in a half season.... wich pretty much says he was back to being a 20 goal scorer.... and that wasnt enough apparently ... higgins pulls chute just as fast if not faster when it comes to a big game and he had even less points than Mayray last year and makes more money.... last 9 playoff games (last 2 seasons) higgins 0 points -5 mayray 1g 2a -1 higgins 2.5m cap hit raymond 1m....... kassian gets knocked off the puck just as easy as mayray only difference there is if kassian gets the puck in the high slot or in the circles he has 0 chance of scoring where raymond can bury . i was always on team raymond it was just another blunder by our GM who is a terrible judge of talent... guess gillis just didnt want to keep 20 goals on our roster for 1m...
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#56 tebeaun

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 04:44 PM

Pretty much as per the above. He is better off in the east where checking isnt as tight and physical. The play tends to be more wide open and less grinding. He seemed to play timid here. I get that after the injury, but it was frustrating and time to move on. The fact he wasn't offered a contract and he needed to step up his play probably helped too. Good luck Mason keepit up and keep your head up!

Edited by tebeaun, 06 December 2013 - 04:49 PM.

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#57 Chauncey

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 04:46 PM

Well I don't necessarily like Raymond, he is an overrated goof, however, Max Pacioretty avenged him yesterday and I am proud to say I am a Max Pacioretty fan now. Im gonna get his jersey. I really hope GMMG makes a pitch for the guy. Would love it. :)

Edited by Chauncey, 06 December 2013 - 04:46 PM.

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