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Shanahan's incompetence bearing proof

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#1 PhillipBlunt

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:38 PM

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The 2013-2014 season has been one of unprecedented attacks against player safety.

Rick Nash spoke about the issue shortly before returning to the ice. He stated "You watch the highlights and it seems that there's a head shot every night."

Just today Zac Rinaldo attacked Antoine Roussel, James Neal kneed Brad Marchand, and Shawn Thornton attacked Brooks Orpik sending him off ice on a stretcher. That's one days worth of games.

While the players are professionals, they are playing in a league without a moral compass. The officials are woefully inadequate at their jobs and Brendan Shanahan has failed miserably at providing the NHL with any kind of consistency.

In effect, the leagues rules are essentially open to interpretation. In a sport as fast and brutal as hockey, this is a recipe for disaster.
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#2 Brad Bellick^

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:42 PM

Shanahan can only hand out suspensions it's not like he can be out on the ice enforcing the rules and preventing things like that from happening.
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#3 PhillipBlunt

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:44 PM

Shanahan can only hand out suspensions it's not like he can be out on the ice enforcing the rules and preventing things like that from happening.

His suspensions shape how players play the game. They indicate what is suspendable and what is permissible. It does affect the game. Open your eyes.
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#4 Brad Bellick^

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:47 PM

His suspensions shape how players play the game. They indicate what is suspendable and what is permissible. It does affect the game. Open your eyes.


And he's handed out suspensions for plays like this. What else can he do? Give players life time bans?
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#5 MANGO

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:49 PM

His suspensions shape how players play the game. They indicate what is suspendable and what is permissible. It does affect the game. Open your eyes.


I would say his inconsistency shapes how players play more so. Also, suspensions I think, need to be longer to get players to change their attitudes.

Edited by MANGO, 07 December 2013 - 09:50 PM.

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#6 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:52 PM

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When he first started the suspensions were a lot longer. Soon after that he got reeled in. Owners and players don't want 'em that long. So owners and players are kinda turning an effective blind eye towards this issue.

Shanny is a puppet.

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Edited by TOMapleLaughs, 07 December 2013 - 09:53 PM.

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#7 PhillipBlunt

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:55 PM

When he first started the suspensions were a lot longer. Soon after that he got reeled in. Owners and players don't want 'em that long. So owners and players are kinda turning an effective blind eye towards this issue.

Shanny is a puppet.

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True. The league in its totality bears responsibility to this issue. I guess Shanahan's moniker is merely a bullseye.
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#8 PhillipBlunt

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:56 PM

And he's handed out suspensions for plays like this. What else can he do? Give players life time bans?

He would never be given that sweeping power in a league so concerned with growing the game's brand at the behest of its reputation.
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#9 nuckin_futz

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:59 PM

The 2013-2014 season has been one of unprecedented attacks against player safety.

Rick Nash spoke about the issue shortly before returning to the ice. He stated "You watch the highlights and it seems that there's a head shot every night."


Is this the same Rick Nash? Couldn't be?


Edited by nuckin_futz, 07 December 2013 - 10:00 PM.

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#10 PhillipBlunt

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:07 PM

Is this the same Rick Nash? Couldn't be?


Yeah it is. Maybe not the best person to quote, but it was the most recent and pertinent statement about the issue.
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#11 Pineapples

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:21 PM

If the league handed out suspensions that mattered, players might change. They also need to base them on intent instead of result.
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#12 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:28 PM

Part of the problem is a lot of latitude is given for.

1) Is the player injured? If it's minor, it's a minor suspension.
2) Does the offender have a history. If yes, hand out a long suspension regardless.
3) The infraction and the severity is not really taken into consideration 1, and 2 seem to have more bearing.

Cheap shots to the head have no place in hockey. Having your stick at chest level or higher also has no place.
Maybe be like regular Common Law. Don't be afraid to use precedence.
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#13 PhillipBlunt

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:01 AM

If the league handed out suspensions that mattered, players might change. They also need to base them on intent instead of result.

Agreed.

Basing suspension on intent allows the league to target malicious behavior.

Basing suspension on result penalizes accidental incidents with the same severity as purposeful incidents.

Intent targets predatory behavior
Results target any incidental behavior.

The variables are far too great within a results based suspension model to serve the greater good of the game.
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#14 Henrik Kesler

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:01 AM

Part of the problem is a lot of latitude is given for.

1) Is the player injured? If it's minor, it's a minor suspension.
2) Does the offender have a history. If yes, hand out a long suspension regardless.
3) The infraction and the severity is not really taken into consideration 1, and 2 seem to have more bearing.

Cheap shots to the head have no place in hockey. Having your stick at chest level or higher also has no place.
Maybe be like regular Common Law. Don't be afraid to use precedence.


Suspending based on result, instead of intent has done more harm than good. There are some very, VERY dirty plays that don't result in serious injury and therefore don't result in a suspension, despite being intentional.

I fear the nonsense and retaliation will only get worse until the league starts punishing based on intent (did you elbow the opponent) instead of result (was he concussed despite not throwing elbow).
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#15 PhillipBlunt

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:12 AM

Suspending based on result, instead of intent has done more harm than good. There are some very, VERY dirty plays that don't result in serious injury and therefore don't result in a suspension, despite being intentional.

I fear the nonsense and retaliation will only get worse until the league starts punishing based on intent (did you elbow the opponent) instead of result (was he concussed despite not throwing elbow).

Spot on Henrik. Well said. If players who intend to injure fail to do so, that won't stop them from trying again. This rings resoundingly true if they don't get penalized for their actions.

Edited by PhillipBlunt, 08 December 2013 - 12:13 AM.

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#16 Pineapples

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:19 AM

Agreed.

Basing suspension on intent allows the league to target malicious behavior.

Basing suspension on result penalizes accidental incidents with the same severity as purposeful incidents.

Intent targets predatory behavior
Results target any incidental behavior.

The variables are far too great within a results based suspension model to serve the greater good of the game.

Suspending based on result, instead of intent has done more harm than good. There are some very, VERY dirty plays that don't result in serious injury and therefore don't result in a suspension, despite being intentional.

I fear the nonsense and retaliation will only get worse until the league starts punishing based on intent (did you elbow the opponent) instead of result (was he concussed despite not throwing elbow).


Yep, considering how many dirty plays that have happened this year already, it's clear that the disciplinary system is having negative effects, and will continue to get worse until they fix it.

The league has a chance to make things better depending on what they do with Thornton. Though I'm guessing they'll make things worse instead.
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#17 Karlsson`s Flo

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:33 AM

A lack of respect amongst some players isn't Shanahan's incompetence. It's a players issue that the NHL is forced to deal with. It does not matter who you put in charge of player safety when they will always be players playing a violent, physical game.
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#18 PhillipBlunt

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:38 AM

A lack of respect amongst some players isn't Shanahan's incompetence. It's a players issue that the NHL is forced to deal with. It does not matter who you put in charge of player safety when they will always be players playing a violent, physical game.

Not a chance. Players do what they can get away with. The NHLPA doesn't regulate play in the league. Once again, open your eyes.
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#19 viking mama

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:55 AM


The 2013-2014 season has been one of unprecedented attacks against player safety.

Rick Nash spoke about the issue shortly before returning to the ice. He stated "You watch the highlights and it seems that there's a head shot every night."

Just today Zac Rinaldo attacked Antoine Roussel, James Neal kneed Brad Marchand, and Shawn Thornton attacked Brooks Orpik sending him off ice on a stretcher. That's one days worth of games.

While the players are professionals, they are playing in a league without a moral compass. The officials are woefully inadequate at their jobs and Brendan Shanahan has failed miserably at providing the NHL with any kind of consistency.

In effect, the leagues rules are essentially open to interpretation. In a sport as fast and brutal as hockey, this is a recipe for disaster.


....and an invitation to corruption.

The DPS is seeded with affliated players - all with connections to O-6 teams that are simply impossible to ignore. There is a strong bias on this DPS. Shanny & his DPS posse are either too intimidated or beholding to see straight on some issues & will always favor the League Presidents team & players of favored-voting-block partners. Therefore boundaries being set are NOT so clearly defined...for ALL.

Thornton has crossed over into "Sean Avery" terrritory. His actions are so maliciously stupid & fool-hardy...that he's put the entire league in disrepute. If a person made a smple error in judgement on the job-site...he could be reprimanded or even offered retraining. But when a person knowingly & recklessly puts their fellow union brothers at risk ...OR assaults them while defenseless.... & without warning (Duncan Keith, Milan Lucic, Brad Marchand...now Shawn Thornton)...in the "real" world - they're arses are FIRED.... & they're done with the company. This logical step doesnt happen in the NHL ....because "pro-violence traditionalists" hold the balance of power....& the culture of hockey violence is still being preached in some cities - to desperately hold on to traditional market-shares. The more progressive family-friendly sports are now considered almost pacifist by comparison. Ironically...the NHL still marches along-side anti-bullying campaigns & continually spews a lot of safety-first mantras at their fans.

So kiddies - apparently saying "fool-hardy" things is still far more egregious in the NHL than wallopping a fellow co-worker within an inch of his life....or at least that's the message that we regularly get from this very dysfunctional league....lead by delusional billionaire gentlemen.

BTW: Officials do have the technology to get a lot right out there. Video replays could be available for practically everything controversial. It's very possible to link referees to feeds for instant clarification from off-ice officials. Simple to do....but they wont. How else could they manage outcomes - if necessary. Just sayin.

Edited by viking mama, 15 November 2014 - 04:56 PM.

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#20 Lychees

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 02:07 AM

Honestly I think the NHLPA needs to send a memo out to tell players to respect one another, there's just absolutely no respect whatsoever. Just think of the past few playoffs for the Nucks alone. Lots of diving, whining, embellishing, dirty hits etc. and players are allowed to get away with it, is it the refs fault? Partially. But why are we not blaming the players for these acts?

Also man is the reffing horridly inconsistent for all teams, honestly either clamp down, or let them play. Don't swap between the two as the game goes on.
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#21 TheHitman

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 02:18 AM

Headshots should be an automatic 10 game suspension w/o pay on the first offense. Every offense thereafter adding 10 games to that.
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#22 TimberWolf

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 02:27 AM

Suspensions should be ruled by an independant comitee made up of former players, refs and manegement types. A clear set of undisputable rules should be on the ice with no tolorance. Doesn't matter if it's game 1 of the season or 7 of the final. The rules need to be enforced professionally. Refs are too worried about entertainment and that needs to end. If the game was policed properly the entertainment would follow. (open ice and skill players not being gooned)
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#23 Chip Kelly

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 02:54 AM

Top 3 rats in the league in this order 1. Marchand 2. Roussel 3. Shaw
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#24 viking mama

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 03:13 AM


Yep, considering how many dirty plays that have happened this year already, it's clear that the disciplinary system is having negative effects, and will continue to get worse until they fix it.

The league has a chance to make things better depending on what they do with Thornton. Though I'm guessing they'll make things worse instead.


Thornton weighed the odds & knowing that the DPS has the Bruins' back...he went for it. The league's tolerance for violence, maliciousness & acts of retribution perpetrated by Bruins (& other O-6s)....is very different. These entitlements have created confusion through-out the league. Thornton, as a multiple-suspension-dodger in the past...is clearly banking on discounted discipline....as did Duncan Keith before he blind-sided & targetted Daniel Sedin. They both weighed the odds 1st. Non-hockey play violence is indefensible...but clearly it is NOT being discouraged enough in certain markets by the league... & by extension the DPS.

Edited by viking mama, 15 November 2014 - 04:57 PM.

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#25 viking mama

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 03:15 AM

Suspensions should be ruled by an independant comitee made up of former players, refs and manegement types. A clear set of undisputable rules should be on the ice with no tolorance. Doesn't matter if it's game 1 of the season or 7 of the final. The rules need to be enforced professionally. Refs are too worried about entertainment and that needs to end. If the game was policed properly the entertainment would follow. (open ice and skill players not being gooned)


There are certain referees or officials who are far too worried about losing their shot at advancement to post-career league positions. What if....they were to piss-off the wrong people in power? Thats the real problem here. Last season - it wasn't the junior officials making the most "questionable" calls. It wasn't junior officals being flown from coast to coast to work...certain games. With no less than 45 other potential referees available to choose from, VanCity had signifigant cause to distrust only 2 particular officials....yet these were the very guys that the league regularly chose to fly-in & work the VanCity games vs 2 of the O-6s.

On the ice,...in the leagues board rooms...& within NHLOA...this league is all about power-mongering & pay backs. Can't wait to see what a new commsisioner would do to clean house & level the playing field for everyone.

Edited by viking mama, 08 December 2013 - 11:27 PM.

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#26 Burnsey

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 04:04 AM

I would say his inconsistency shapes how players play more so. Also, suspensions I think, need to be longer to get players to change their attitudes.


Agreed. Look at Matt Cooke. He was one of the dirtiest players in the league, after a couple lengthy suspensions he vowed to change his game and has. Still has a reputation but is a much better and cleaner player now.
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#27 viking mama

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 04:14 AM

Not a chance. Players do what they can get away with. The NHLPA doesn't regulate play in the league. Once again, open your eyes.


They do it in the IIHF well enough. The standards have produced some of the best tournament play that I have ever seen. Did you think that the 2010 Olympic hockey tournament was well-officiated & played? Same refs...just rules with teeth...to keep the discipline & a lid on things. NO hot-heads or super-pest antagonists would be allowed to remain in an international game today. They are forced by the rules & the consequences...to have a greater respect for their on-ice opponents.

The NHL needs to move forward on this...not backwards. Shouldn't Gino Odjick's current plight give folks a little more reason to pause....& think about this issue - again?

Edited by viking mama, 08 December 2013 - 11:33 PM.

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#28 riffraff

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:10 AM

<p>

Shanahan can only hand out suspensions it's not like he can be out on the ice enforcing the rules and preventing things like that from happening.



...

Edited by riffraff, 08 December 2013 - 06:11 AM.

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#29 Salacious Crumb

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:11 AM

The 2013-2014 season has been one of unprecedented attacks against player safety.

Rick Nash spoke about the issue shortly before returning to the ice. He stated "You watch the highlights and it seems that there's a head shot every night."

Just today Zac Rinaldo attacked Antoine Roussel, James Neal kneed Brad Marchand, and Shawn Thornton attacked Brooks Orpik sending him off ice on a stretcher. That's one days worth of games.

While the players are professionals, they are playing in a league without a moral compass. The officials are woefully inadequate at their jobs and Brendan Shanahan has failed miserably at providing the NHL with any kind of consistency.

In effect, the leagues rules are essentially open to interpretation. In a sport as fast and brutal as hockey, this is a recipe for disaster.

This is true of all the major sports. Different umpires have different strike zones in baseball, pass interference is called differently from football game to football game. The NHL fails in having such a wide range in how games are called. Games are called differently through the course of the game as well as the course of the season. The playoffs are another animal entirely. It's aggravating, a penalty is a penalty is a penalty, preseason, regular season or playoffs, regardless of score or circumstance.

We all see it, games are managed rather than called as seen. Eg: Ref. 1 "Home team is down by 2 in the 2nd period, geez, how many penalties is the visiting team going to get called for?" Ref. 2 "I dunno, as many as it takes to get the homies back in the game." It's all so predicatable.

As for the players being professionals, I wonder how much of their inhumanity is chemical related. Steroids and amphetamines are the first 2 that come to mind. In post game interviews some guys look and sound like they are hepped up on a lot more than adrenaline.

Shanahans shanahanigans are a joke, absolutley no consistency to suspensions or what is suspendable. I fail to see the difference between Lupuls' attempted elbow on Henrik and Keiths' elbow on Daniel. Both are attempts to injure, Keith got 5 for success and Lupul should have got 3 for the attempt.

How to fix the game? Name Gretzky Czar of all things Hockey on planet Earth and give him carte blanche to get rid of the rot and shore up the foundations of the best game in the world?
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#30 Standing_Tall#37

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:17 AM

This is true of all the major sports. Different umpires have different strike zones in baseball, pass interference is called differently from football game to football game. The NHL fails in having such a wide range in how games are called. Games are called differently through the course of the game as well as the course of the season. The playoffs are another animal entirely. It's aggravating, a penalty is a penalty is a penalty, preseason, regular season or playoffs, regardless of score or circumstance.

We all see it, games are managed rather than called as seen. Eg: Ref. 1 "Home team is down by 2 in the 2nd period, geez, how many penalties is the visiting team going to get called for?" Ref. 2 "I dunno, as many as it takes to get the homies back in the game." It's all so predicatable.

As for the players being professionals, I wonder how much of their inhumanity is chemical related. Steroids and amphetamines are the first 2 that come to mind. In post game interviews some guys look and sound like they are hepped up on a lot more than adrenaline.

Shanahans shanahanigans are a joke, absolutley no consistency to suspensions or what is suspendable. I fail to see the difference between Lupuls' attempted elbow on Henrik and Keiths' elbow on Daniel. Both are attempts to injure, Keith got 5 for success and Lupul should have got 3 for the attempt.

How to fix the game? Name Gretzky Czar of all things Hockey on planet Earth and give him carte blanche to get rid of the rot and shore up the foundations of the best game in the world?

I agree with this. I don't think the nhl is fake as the wwf, but the fix is in, and the refs definately can change the outcome of a game. But I guess considering the background of alot of the owners and what they're tied up in(especially ours) it should come as no surprise. It's only business.
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