Cucumber Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Ok at the beginning of the season I was thinking that higgins is just a fringe top6 forward. Although this is a popular belief his numbers just don't lie. currently he is on pace for 23 goals tieing his 2nd best of his career 49points which would be his 2nd best of his career usanlly a top 6player is expected to get a 50-60 points season minimum. Higgins is one point behind the 50 point margin. so at the moment i would say yes he is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Well, he sure is playing like one. It's amazing what a coach can do when he talks to his players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Ya, I agree! If he can keep this play up and carry it into the play-offs then he most definitely is a top 6 forward! Santorelli as well, has developed into a 2nd line player as well! Canucks were very fortunate this year with how some of their players stepped into the bigger shoes that Torts asked of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoolander Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I'd prefer we brought in a 50-60pt guy and move Higgins down to the 3rd line, but he has found some great chemistry with santorelli and Kesler so yes I'd consider him a top 6 forward...but only when playing with the right players. Take them away and Higgins will faulter and revert back to being a 3rd liner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 With the right teammates he is. But I just think for cup teams he has to be on the 3rd line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Only highly offensive teams (like Pittsburgh) will have 6 forwards with 50 points or more, so to really classify a top 6 forward as 50 points seems unlikely to me. Sometimes a player is in the top 6 in order to compliment players that score more points. Higgins does just that. The fact that he's getting points is great, but to categorize people based merely on points is rather inadequate analysis in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksSayEh Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 He can produce like one if given the chance, but it's not likely to continue in the playoffs... It takes a lengthy hot streak for him to hit that pace. One guy like him would be fine as our #6, not both him and Santo. That just screams first round sweep. We have gone through this for years, guys scoring above their normal rate when given the chance, only to fall flat on their face in the post season. Higgins and Hansen, 1 combined point over the last 2 playoffs. Adding a legit 2nd liner, not only makes Kesler and our 1 remaining "tweener" better, it stacks our 3rd line, and bottom 6 in general to what is needed over a long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gross-Misconduct Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I agree with your 'fringe' assessment. He can play top 6 and belong there when he's on a roll but I dont think he's a natural top 6. He's a 3rd liner who can play up to 2nd. If we have a solid top 6 playing well going into the playoffs (I have faith) and Higgins is able to play on the 3rd, I think he can do some damage matched up against bottom 3 D-men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 An elite team can survive with two fringe/#5-#6 guys if they have four sure fire top six guys. We have so many players considered fringe guys. We have FIVE of those guys. Higgins, Santorelli, Booth, Higgins, Kassian + hansen the 3rd liner #move2for1 Daniel - Henrik - Burrows Higgins/Santorelli - Kesler - topsix Booth - Richardson - Kassian or some ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cucumber Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 just thought I post this to let most cdc members will stop making proposals and suggesting that MG doesn't know what to do with this team. Listen you just don't make a move to make a move or when a losing streak happens. You have to trust the coach to help the players get over the hump. MG has been patience with Torts, i respect MG to be giving Torts a year to see what he has and then when the cap goes up, mg will address the problems we do have. Torts is a fantastic coach and I have all faith that he will win the cup in the next 5years if given the chance. Our future is looking great with our prospect and young guns developing nicely. with the cap going up MG will have freedom to get a big name free agent that the fan based will love. Finishing I would like to say that each team has it ups and downs but what I love about Torts he will never give up his message. Torts baby bring us a cup soon :towel: I even vote if he win a cup that we make a statue of him and put it beside lord stanley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gross-Misconduct Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 just thought I post this to let most cdc members will stop making proposals and suggesting that MG doesn't know what to do with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hectic Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 With the right teammates he is. But I just think for cup teams he has to be on the 3rd line. Agree - if he's with Hansen on the third line then we look pretty deep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HC20.0 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I think Higgins is a top 6. Not an elite top 6, but he is one. Santo though is making a case to be a part of our top 6 also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Doctor Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 This year he's playing like one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 CDC consistently overrates what's expected of a top-six forward. The OP is bang on for what most people expect (50-60 points per season minimum). However, the reality in recent years is that roughly 0.40 points per game (about 33 points) or better is what constitutes a top-six scoring rate in today's NHL. 50-60 points per season is a first line scoring rate. Of course, the best teams in the NHL have more than three "first liners" and have 50-60 points/season players on their second lines. As things stand currently, the Canucks have a chance to be one of those teams. Here's a good recent article (from PITB) on the difference between expectations and realities as to what constitutes a "second line forward" (and top-six scoring) in the NHL: http://vansunsportsb...ner-in-the-nhl/ EDIT: As far as those numbers go, the Canucks are in pretty good shape with their current roster. Vancouver currently has four forwards who are producing points at a "first liner" rate: Hank and Danny (0.89 points/game each), Kes (0.74), and Santo (0.69). Another two forwards are producing at "second line" rates: Higgins (0.60 points/game--just below a first line rate) and Richardson (0.40). Three more Canucks forwards are currently just below the threshold for "top-six" scoring: Hansen (0.36), Weise (0.36), and Booth (0.35). You also have guys like Burrows (0.18), whose injuries and scoring slump have him well below his normal rate of production, and Kassian (0.24), who has shown flashes of "top-six" ability (and who hopefully will become a more consistent scorer). Both players (especially Burr) could quite easily produce top-six scoring during the 2nd half of this season. Finally, there's Schroeder (if/when he returns to the lineup), who has top-six offensive talent and who has shown the ability in the past to produce at a "first line" scoring rate when he's given complimentary wingers and an offensive role (like the Raymond-Schroeder-Hansen line that actually out-produced the Sedin line, in points/minute played, in their games together last season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 He can produce like one if given the chance, but it's not likely to continue in the playoffs... It takes a lengthy hot streak for him to hit that pace. One guy like him would be fine as our #6, not both him and Santo. That just screams first round sweep. We have gone through this for years, guys scoring above their normal rate when given the chance, only to fall flat on their face in the post season. Higgins and Hansen, 1 combined point over the last 2 playoffs. Adding a legit 2nd liner, not only makes Kesler and our 1 remaining "tweener" better, it stacks our 3rd line, and bottom 6 in general to what is needed over a long run. Was just going to post this myself! One thing about the second comment though, it's not like management has a crystal ball, nor does it always have the opportunity, to get the 2nd line player (at least statistically speaking), know that they will gel with the rest of the team and, simultaneously, not have this acquisition cost an arm and leg. I mean look at Derek Roy, by all accounts (production included) he's a 2nd line play-making center, who was available for a decent cost, and even in Vancouver he scored at 0.5 p.p.g. However (just as everyone else did) his production faltered in the playoffs. Bottom line, I'm glad that we at least have Higgins, who plays the kind of game and has the ability to thrive in the playoffs, at such a decent price. Now I just hope that MG can pick up the right guy at the right price, and that Torts will have everyone ready for a Kings-style run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 If we start losing again, I'd like to see Booth/Kass get their shots up again. Just not possible with the play of our top six. Our whole top nine has been so good recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I am starting to get the feeling Gillis wont do anything at the deadline and I think he needs to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I would dare say Kesler, Santorelli and Higgins are one of the top-5 2nd lines in the league. Probably not as skilled as say Pittsburgh's, Chicago's or San Jose's, but they are 3 of the best forecheckers in the league. We saw Santorelli, Higgins and Kesler absolutely man-handle the Bruins' top line to score the game winner and its those sorts of matchups that win playoff series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cucumber Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 I would dare say Kesler, Santorelli and Higgins are one of the top-5 2nd lines in the league. Probably not as skilled as say Pittsburgh's, Chicago's or San Jose's, but they are 3 of the best forecheckers in the league. We saw Santorelli, Higgins and Kesler absolutely man-handle the Bruins' top line to score the game winner and its those sorts of matchups that win playoff series. agree just imagine the depth when burrows and schroeder get back sedins burrows higgins kesler santorille booth richardson kassian hansen dalpe weise edler tanev hamhuis garry slanton bieksa(bieska to cherry) lu lack send schroeder to minors bring chemistry with jensen for playoffs bring up the black aces jensen archibald schroeder corrado ect that depth is really good and I would say better then in 10-11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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