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[PGT] Canucks @ Blackhawks

-Vintage Canuck-

By -Vintage Canuck-
in Canucks Talk

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SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Canucks Franchise Player

SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

Posted
Posted

Hansen is a 4th liner. He can't play physical, no hands, he is only a little bit faster than the Sedins, his defense is overrated, he can't cycle. What does he do? I'm not sure.

I'm the first to admit that Hansen has been having an off year so far and hasn't played to his ability, but wow is that criticism ever unfair (and inaccurate).

Due to the fact that the quoted post is has a +2 (at last check), I figured I'd better offer a response (as it seems that more than one person agrees with Plum's assessment).

This is probably going to take some time (and be a lengthy post).

I don't know how much Hansen's struggles this season are due to the injuries he's suffered and his not playing at 100% in the 28 games he has played. Hopefully, if he has been playing through some issues, he'll get back to 100% soon and he'll pick things up during the second half of the season.

However, even while struggling this season, Hansen has played much better than a "4th liner." He's also clearly demonstrated, over the previous three seasons, that he's an excellent (I'd even say "elite") third liner who is very capable of producing at a "first line" scoring rate (this is been discussed to death--the numbers speak for themselves and are easily accessible).

He can be a frustrating player to watch sometimes as he tends to get a lot of scoring chances but seems unable to convert on the majority of them. Whether or not he'll ever become more of a "clinical" scorer remains to be seen. Most likely, he'll always be someone who produces a high amount of quality chances but still frustrates fans to no end due to the number of grade-A opportunities that he fails to put in the back of the net.

Even with all the missed opportunities, Hansen is still quite an effective offensive player. He produces goals through hustle, hard work, and tenaciousness. He's not a pure skill guy but he's a capable playmaker/passer and he has a pretty decent shot. Last season, he was the Canucks most productive scorer at even strength (and he was among the leaders in points/60 EVTOI in the entire NHL). Over the two seasons from 2011-13, at even strength, he was the most productive player on this team not named Sedin. Even over the five years from 2008-13, Hansen ranks #4 (behind only the twins and Burr) in even strength scoring rate (points/60).

Prior to this season, he was also the team's most effective penalty killing forward (and one of the better defensive forwards on the team).

He's taken a step back this season, at least so far, and he isn't playing as well as expected. Even still, his scoring (points per game) is just below what is considered a "top-six" rate in the NHL. Similarly, his even strength production is down but it's still a solidly "third line" rate.

With the twins killing penalties, Santorelli and Richardson added to this season's PK unit, and Kesler and Higgins continuing to contribute, Hansen is no longer a key forward for the Canucks when they are shorthanded. The six PK forwards ahead of Hansen this season have played healthy all year and the Canucks haven't needed to add another guy to the rotation. This might change later in the season but with the Canucks having the league's best PK for most of this year, there's been little desire to "fix what ain't broken."

That doesn't mean that Hansen has stopped being a strong defensive forward and a very capable PKer. He's just been the odd man out. I have, however, wondered at times if some of Hansen's issues this year stem from his losing the role of the Canucks #1 PK forward (which he was last season). While the PK is tough minutes, it also can keep players sharp defensively and can make even strength minutes seem easy in comparison. Hansen might have lost something of a "springboard" this season from not playing top minutes shorthanded.

As far as Hansen not being physical, I just don't get that criticism, unless you're expecting him to drop the gloves more or something. As far as hitting goes, Hansen's been a leader on this team for years: 2010-11: 149 hits to lead all forwards, 2011-12: tied for 2nd (forwards) with 118 hits, 2012-13: 4th (forwards) with 55 (over the 48 game season). So far this season, Hansen sits at #5 (forwards) in hitting. However, when you look at hits/game, he's at #3 (and he'd be on pace for 129 hits over 82 games), with only Sestito and Weise ahead of him. Of course, there's more to playing physical than throwing hits but I don't see how a guy who "can't play physical" consistently manages to be one of his team's most active hitters.

As to his playing with the twins, while Hansen hasn't been the ideal "fit" with the Sedins, given the injury to Burrows and the success of the Higgins-Kesler-Santorelli line, he's been the best fit available to play RW on the first line. While things haven't clicked perfectly, the twins still enjoy a better scoring rate with Hansen on their wing than they have averaged without him. In fact, Sedin-Sedin-Hansen has produced roughly the same rate of even strength scoring that Sedin-Sedin-Kesler has this season (1.088 GF20 versus 1.015 GF20).

Kassian does have a nominally greater scoring rate than Hansen playing with the twins this season, but that's with under 15 total minutes EVTOI and only 1 team goal-for scored (5v5) with Sedin-Sedin-Kassian on the ice. I'm all for giving Kassian more chances with the twins, but there's been nothing so far to indicate that he'd be more effective than Hansen on a consistent, game-to-game basis and the Sedins' RWer.

Hansen has actually managed to put-up OK numbers with the twins. While Burrows has been out, Hansen has thusfar been the most successful option of those Torts has tried. And we don't even know if Burrows would be a better option on that line than Hansen is right now (given how bad Burr's own scoring slump has been this season). Even with the Sedins going through a cold spell (and their slump started before Hansen joined their line), their numbers playing with Hansen are better than their average for this season.

Hansen certainly hasn't brought the twins down.

What did I miss? I suppose the only remaining criticisms are that Hansen "can't cycle" and that he "is only a bit faster than the Sedins."

For the first, I dunno, can I just say that Hansen can cycle and leave it at that? Probably not gonna suffice but honestly, that's all I have the energy for right now.

As for the skating, I think that given how Hansen has been one of the team's faster skaters for many seasons, if he has dropped down to only marginally better than the twins (and I personally don't find this to be the case), then it's probably due to injuries and it's temporary. Hansen might have been playing hurt for some of his games this season (even before the shoulder injury he seemed to be nursing something) and it also takes time to get back into game shape after coming off the IR.

If Hansen has slowed down this year, I suspect that his conditioning and his general game shape (due to injuries and missed games) have been the reason. If that's the case, he will improve as he plays more games and gets back to 100% and eventually, we'll again see Hansen as one of this team's more speedy forwards.

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Tangerines Canucks Regular

Tangerines

Posted
Posted

I'm the first to admit that Hansen has been having an off year so far and hasn't played to his ability, but wow is that criticism ever unfair (and inaccurate).

Due to the fact that the quoted post is has a +2 (at last check), I figured I'd better offer a response (as it seems that more than one person agrees with Plum's assessment).

This is probably going to take some time (and be a lengthy post).

I don't know how much Hansen's struggles this season are due to the injuries he's suffered and his not playing at 100% in the 28 games he has played. Hopefully, if he has been playing through some issues, he'll get back to 100% soon and he'll pick things up during the second half of the season.

However, even while struggling this season, Hansen has played much better than a "4th liner." He's also clearly demonstrated, over the previous three seasons, that he's an excellent (I'd even say "elite") third liner who is very capable of producing at a "first line" scoring rate (this is been discussed to death--the numbers speak for themselves and are easily accessible).

He can be a frustrating player to watch sometimes as he tends to get a lot of scoring chances but seems unable to convert on the majority of them. Whether or not he'll ever become more of a "clinical" scorer remains to be seen. Most likely, he'll always be someone who produces a high amount of quality chances but still frustrates fans to no end due to the number of grade-A opportunities that he fails to put in the back of the net.

Even with all the missed opportunities, Hansen is still quite an effective offensive player. He produces goals through hustle, hard work, and tenaciousness. He's not a pure skill guy but he's a capable playmaker/passer and he has a pretty decent shot. Last season, he was the Canucks most productive scorer at even strength (and he was among the leaders in points/60 EVTOI in the entire NHL). Over the two seasons from 2011-13, at even strength, he was the most productive player on this team not named Sedin. Even over the five years from 2008-13, Hansen ranks #4 (behind only the twins and Burr) in even strength scoring rate (points/60).

Prior to this season, he was also the team's most effective penalty killing forward (and one of the better defensive forwards on the team).

He's taken a step back this season, at least so far, and he isn't playing as well as expected. Even still, his scoring (points per game) is just below what is considered a "top-six" rate in the NHL. Similarly, his even strength production is down but it's still a solidly "third line" rate.

With the twins killing penalties, Santorelli and Richardson added to this season's PK unit, and Kesler and Higgins continuing to contribute, Hansen is no longer a key forward for the Canucks when they are shorthanded. The six PK forwards ahead of Hansen this season have played healthy all year and the Canucks haven't needed to add another guy to the rotation. This might change later in the season but with the Canucks having the league's best PK for most of this year, there's been little desire to "fix what ain't broken."

That doesn't mean that Hansen has stopped being a strong defensive forward and a very capable PKer. He's just been the odd man out. I have, however, wondered at times if some of Hansen's issues this year stem from his losing the role of the Canucks #1 PK forward (which he was last season). While the PK is tough minutes, it also can keep players sharp defensively and can make even strength minutes seem easy in comparison. Hansen might have lost something of a "springboard" this season from not playing top minutes shorthanded.

As far as Hansen not being physical, I just don't get that criticism, unless you're expecting him to drop the gloves more or something. As far as hitting goes, Hansen's been a leader on this team for years: 2010-11: 149 hits to lead all forwards, 2011-12: tied for 2nd (forwards) with 118 hits, 2012-13: 4th (forwards) with 55 (over the 48 game season). So far this season, Hansen sits at #5 (forwards) in hitting. However, when you look at hits/game, he's at #3 (and he'd be on pace for 129 hits over 82 games), with only Sestito and Weise ahead of him. Of course, there's more to playing physical than throwing hits but I don't see how a guy who "can't play physical" consistently manages to be one of his team's most active hitters.

As to his playing with the twins, while Hansen hasn't been the ideal "fit" with the Sedins, given the injury to Burrows and the success of the Higgins-Kesler-Santorelli line, he's been the best fit available to play RW on the first line. While things haven't clicked perfectly, the twins still enjoy a better scoring rate with Hansen on their wing than they have averaged without him. In fact, Sedin-Sedin-Hansen has produced roughly the same rate of even strength scoring that Sedin-Sedin-Kesler has this season (1.088 GF20 versus 1.015 GF20).

Kassian does have a nominally greater scoring rate than Hansen playing with the twins this season, but that's with under 15 total minutes EVTOI and only 1 team goal-for scored (5v5) with Sedin-Sedin-Kassian on the ice. I'm all for giving Kassian more chances with the twins,

Hansen has actually managed to put-up OK numbers with the twins. While Burrows has been out, Hansen has thusfar been the most successful option of those Torts has tried. And we don't even know if Burrows would be a better option on that line than Hansen is right now (given how bad Burr's own scoring slump has been this season). Even with the Sedins going through a cold spell (and their slump started before Hansen joined their line), their numbers playing with Hansen are better than their average for this season.

Hansen certainly hasn't brought the twins down.

What did I miss? I suppose the only remaining criticisms are that Hansen "can't cycle" and that he "is only a bit faster than the Sedins."

For the first, I dunno, can I just say that Hansen can cycle and leave it at that? Probably not gonna suffice but honestly, that's all I have the energy for right now.

As for the skating, I think that given how Hansen has been one of the team's faster skaters for many seasons, if he has dropped down to only marginally better than the twins (and I personally don't find this to be the case), then it's probably due to injuries and it's temporary. Hansen might have been playing hurt for some of his games this season (even before the shoulder injury he seemed to be nursing something) and it also takes time to get back into game shape after coming off the IR.

If Hansen has slowed down this year, I suspect that his conditioning and his general game shape (due to injuries and missed games) have been the reason. If that's the case, he will improve as he plays more games and gets back to 100% and eventually, we'll again see Hansen as one of this team's more speedy forwards.

Anyone other than Sestito would look better with the twins right now.

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Twilight Sparkle Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Twilight Sparkle

Posted
Posted

Guy acts like a clown sometimes with his hate for Gillis. Just look at his sig, a mod shouldn't act like that

nothing wrong with the guy's sig. it's satire. take a look around this board. people take things way too seriously and just hate on a guy, because he's a mod, you think you're some kind of anti-establishment?

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hudson bay rules Canucks Third-Line

hudson bay rules

Posted
Posted

Hey jack, I didn't say anything bad bout the twins, I thought they played greaat tonight. If u read my post, I said hansen hasn't been good witht the sedins. And why not give kass a spin on the topline? I mean I know kass & booth have been great together, but hey why not give kass a shot.

Right, screw up the Booth line that finally seems to be coming around in order to shore up a line that isn't struggling. Gotcha. What are we in our last 10? 8-1-1. If anything we need secondary scoring. Kass is still a plug and is barely removed from being a healthy scratch. He can't keep up with the twins and they need a water-bug sort of payer rather than floater. Burrows will be back soon so your suggestion will be short lived anyway even if it did come to fruition also kinda stoopid tbh.

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Twilight Sparkle Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Twilight Sparkle

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Posted

Not really, I think he truly means it. He is just a Hodgson nuthugger

for those over the age of 18, and really don't care about these players-- and he's been along long enough to see characters like steve bennett, noheart/aka cryril come along who make canucks fans on this board look like jokes, even guys like mangoes/tiger singh, you'd think you'd pick up on the gimmick by now.

i'm not offended by patrick kanes posts because i don't care. he does his job when he has to

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DarthNinja Canucks Third-Line

DarthNinja

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Posted

Guy acts like a clown sometimes with his hate for Gillis. Just look at his sig, a mod shouldn't act like that

Yeah but he is spoiled so it taints his perspective. I don't meant that as an insult, it's just that the team he supports most won a cup after many years of pain where they failed to make the playoffs in 9/10 seasons. This allowed them a couple of 3rd overall picks and 1st overall pick over the years (and many more of course) to draft their core players such as Toews, Kane along with Keith & Seabrook etc.

But also they've got Stan Bowman as GM who has one of the greatest hockey minds as a consultant right beside him, that of course being his father Scotty Bowman (the real Blackhawks GM). The Stanley Cup follows Scotty Bowman around, he's won nine cups with four different organizations.

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Burnsey Canucks Prospect

Burnsey

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Posted

A decent game. Good 40min tonight it seemed. First period was all Lack. Kinda surprised Kesler didn't get in the shootout sooner….maybe Torts was teasing the Hawks. Wish Sedins would score as well in the shootout, regardless pretty solid game.

Nice to win after being down by 2 goals. Every two points are matter, these two may be huge in April :)

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