The Everything Bitcoin Thread

[Papayas]

Thank you for once again allowing me to reiterate on my previous point. Read a book on the history of money, money in present time, and the future of money.

You are a fool if you think that you precious little paper notes in your wallet are backed by the gold standard. Fiat money is where we currently sit. I'm not going to try and argue with you about bitcoin, if you don't even understand money today.

That is all I'm trying to say, I am not sorry if I offended you.

yay, you avoid explaining how bitcoin is more reliable than flat money like usd or cdn again..

all you are saying now is basically since usd or other flat money isn't reliable, therefore currency like Bitcoin is a legit option to invest your money in.

There is no explaination on why it is legit, just it is legit because I dont trust the other system.

Bravo, just bravo. You want to put your money into something that had its value decrease 90% in one day? go ahead.

[MillerGenuineDraft]

1) yay, you avoid explaining how bitcoin is more reliable than flat money like usd or cdn again..

2) all you are saying now is basically since usd or other flat money isn't reliable, therefore currency like Bitcoin is a legit option to invest your money in.

There is no explaination on why it is legit, just it is legit because I dont trust the other system.

Bravo, just bravo. You want to put your money into something that had its value decrease 90% in one day? go ahead.

So first of all, it is not my job to educate you on why bitcoin is more reliable than fiat money. It is your job to educate yourself on how currencies are established and establish your own opinion - something you clearly have not done.

All I'm saying now is what? I never told you anybody to invest in bitcoin. I'm providing my opinion on bitcoin, relative to where we stand with the monetary system today. If that's what you inferred from what I wrote, maybe you really do need to start reading books.

[theminister]

are you comparing to a system that is back up by a country to a system back up by a private internet company that people dont even know who the owner is?? Seriously?

I wanted to respond this more clearly.

USD is not backed up or guaranteed by anything more than consumer confidence, least of which anything physical. There is literally no one in the know who will claim otherwise. It is not secured by precious metals, land or equity. Much of it is in loans.

We also do not know who sits on the board of the Fed, the equivalent of ownership.

[mdehaan]

are you comparing to a system that is back up by a country to a system back up by a private internet company that people dont even know who the owner is?? Seriously?

This is the prime example of what idiocy fallacy is. Just because a country like America is having trouble in its economy and start to messing with its currency, it doesn't immediately make ANY alternate options are good or safe.

Just because you think the USD is decreasing in value, it doesn't mean you can grab any internet current and claim "hey, this is legit because the American government isn't that much better." ....

we are talking about a virtual currency that lost over 90% of its value in merely a day or 2 after any bad news announced! 90%! Do you guys even get what kind of scale is that?

That started a long time ago. Hence the reason bitcoin is as popular as it is, is because people are starting to realize that and search (hope) for alternatives like bitcoin.

Confidence in fiat is dying, its a race of currency devaluation to the bottom - what will take its place?

Read 'Currency Wars' by James Rickards

He also has a new book coming out soon called 'The Death of Money'

[Canada Hockey Place]

FYI - There are already government backed projects on the way like MintChip - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintChip

"MintChip is a digital currency concept that enables digital transactions backed by the Government of Canada and denominated in a variety of currencies"

Obviously not the same thing. But this seems to be what some people in this thread are looking for.

[Grapefruits]

Wah

yay, you avoid explaining how bitcoin is more reliable than flat money like usd or cdn again..

all you are saying now is basically since usd or other flat money isn't reliable, therefore currency like Bitcoin is a legit option to invest your money in.

There is no explaination on why it is legit, just it is legit because I dont trust the other system.

Bravo, just bravo. You want to put your money into something that had its value decrease 90% in one day? go ahead.

Where do you get that number?

[nuckin_futz]

That started a long time ago. Hence the reason bitcoin is as popular as it is, is because people are starting to realize that and search (hope) for alternatives like bitcoin.

Confidence in fiat is dying, its a race of currency devaluation to the bottom - what will take its place?

There is a strong desire for an alternative to fiat. Digital seems like a good method.

If a digital currency eventually takes hold IMO it won't be Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is a good concept with amazingly flawed execution.

No one who cares to secure their wealth would put it into BTC. Sure fiat currency is manipulated, but there are rules and regulations.

As someone who has traded financial products for 16 years I can say unequivocally a completely unregulated financial market is not only asking for trouble. It's begging for chaos. Look no further then the CDO, CDS mess of a few years back. Mt.Gox is/was a perfect example.

Not even the Federal Reserve takes it seriously. Charles Plosser who is a voting member of the Fed recently said "Bitcoin is the Pokemon card craze of our era". Mind you they've been known to talk out of both sides of their mouths.

Something will take hold and survive but I doubt it will be BTC.

[Papayas]

Wah

Where do you get that number?

Google?

Bitcoin was dropped to below 100 usd a pop when the news was announced 5 days ago. It's peak value was at 1.1k usd a pop in December 2013. Last time I checked it was sitting at 590 usd today.

I m going to ignore some of the replies here as it's hair pulling to see those people deliberately ignore those numbers and keep yapping about how insecure flat money is.

For the last time just because one option is flawed, it doesn't make any options u can find valid.

[mdehaan]

There is a strong desire for an alternative to fiat. Digital seems like a good method.

If a digital currency eventually takes hold IMO it won't be Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is a good concept with amazingly flawed execution.

No one who cares to secure their wealth would put it into BTC. Sure fiat currency is manipulated, but there are rules and regulations.

As someone who has traded financial products for 16 years I can say unequivocally a completely unregulated financial market is not only asking for trouble. It's begging for chaos. Look no further then the CDO, CDS mess of a few years back. Mt.Gox is/was a perfect example.

Not even the Federal Reserve takes it seriously. Charles Plosser who is a voting member of the Fed recently said "Bitcoin is the Pokemon card craze of our era". Mind you they've been known to talk out of both sides of their mouths.

Something will take hold and survive but I doubt it will be BTC.

Rules and regulations ... Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Sorry, but that's funny. Currency, manipulated, rules, regulations all in the same sentence.

You've never traded commodities though have you?

[nuckin_futz]

Google?

Bitcoin was dropped to below 100 usd a pop when the news was announced 5 days ago. It's peak value was at 1.1k usd a pop in December 2013. Last time I checked it was sitting at 590 usd today.

That was only on the Mt.Gox exchange. Which obviously was imploding in scandal. That price was not achieved on any other venue.

If there was a central market place like how the stock market operates you wouldn't have one market center trading so out of whack with the others.

[nuckin_futz]

Rules and regulations ... Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Sorry, but that's funny. Currency, manipulated, rules, regulations all in the same sentence.

You've never traded commodities though have you?

Currency can be manipulated in many ways. For example intervening in markets, or via interest rates, even jawboning the market can sometimes be effective etc. That's all within the rules and regulations. Would you not agree that some sort of framework is better than none?

I have traded many different commodities. WTI, natty, gold, silver, copper, soybeans, corn, rough rice etc.

[mdehaan]

Currency can be manipulated in many ways. For example intervening in markets, or via interest rates, even jawboning the market can sometimes be effective etc. That's all within the rules and regulations. Would you not agree that some sort of framework is better than none?

I have traded many different commodities. WTI, natty, gold, silver, copper, soybeans, corn, rough rice etc.

I think jawboning all markets is a tactic used a lot and it usually has an effect, if you get my drift.

Might as well not have regulations anymore for the reasons you listed above.

Edited February 27, 2014 by mdehaan

[Papayas]

I think jawboning all markets is a tactic used a lot and it usually has an effect, if you get my drift.

Might as well not have regulations anymore for the reasons you listed above.

to sum it up, you dont like those tactics in the current market right now, so you prefer markets without rules?

holy crap this logic

[Grapefruits]

Google?

Bitcoin was dropped to below 100 usd a pop when the news was announced 5 days ago. It's peak value was at 1.1k usd a pop in December 2013. Last time I checked it was sitting at 590 usd today.

I m going to ignore some of the replies here as it's hair pulling to see those people deliberately ignore those numbers and keep yapping about how insecure flat money is.

For the last time just because one option is flawed, it doesn't make any options u can find valid.

As nuckin_futz stated, that was a price posted on a rapidly sinking ship. The price never went down like that across the board. People are deliberately ignoring those numbers because they know that isn't a true number.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Grapefruits

[Papayas]

As nuckin_futz stated, that was a price posted on a rapidly sinking ship. The price never went down like that across the board. People are deliberately ignoring those numbers because they know that isn't a true number.

really?

1. Mt Gox is the biggest trade center for bitcoin. It is responsible for the major amount of Bitcoins in the market. If it goes down like this it doesn't really matter what the price of the bitcoin is on other smaller trading site, it will crush the value of bitcoins.

2. Ok, let's totally ignore the price on the biggest trading site for Bitcoins for now and pretend it's just a temperory website issue. Bitcoins' value still dropped from 1000 usd per coin to the whooping 500-600 usd per pop across the board now outside of mtGox. That's a 40-50% drop in value in just 2 months of time.

Even dating back to Jan before the MtGox problem the price for Bitcoin is hovering at around 700-800 bucks a month after hitting the 1.1k mark.

Do you have any idea, just any idea how large those numbers are?

3. The problem for bitcoin is that there is no regulations on its trade process and rules. If the price chart of bitcoin shows you anything, it is that it is extremely easy to manipulate the value of its price for a small group of people, and those are the group of people in the current bitcoin market who would eat up all your ???? hard earn money whenever they feel like it.

but hey~ don't take my word for me. I dare you to invest a major amount of money into the bitcoin market and see how it will get you after a year.

[MillerGenuineDraft]

really?

1. Mt Gox is the biggest trade center for bitcoin. It is responsible for the major amount of Bitcoins in the market. If it goes down like this it doesn't really matter what the price of the bitcoin is on other smaller trading site, it will crush the value of bitcoins.

2. Ok, let's totally ignore the price on the biggest trading site for Bitcoins for now and pretend it's just a temperory website issue. Bitcoins' value still dropped from 1000 usd per coin to the whooping 500-600 usd per pop across the board now outside of mtGox. That's a 40-50% drop in value in just 2 months of time.

Even dating back to Jan before the MtGox problem the price for Bitcoin is hovering at around 700-800 bucks a month after hitting the 1.1k mark.

Do you have any idea, just any idea how large those numbers are?

3. The problem for bitcoin is that there is no regulations on its trade process and rules. If the price chart of bitcoin shows you anything, it is that it is extremely easy to manipulate the value of its price for a small group of people, and those are the group of people in the current bitcoin market who would eat up all your ???? hard earn money whenever they feel like it.

but hey~ don't take my word for me. I dare you to invest a major amount of money into the bitcoin market and see how it will get you after a year.

You are so blind it is ridiculous, I can't even fathom. You're posting about all these 'problems' with bitcoin, yet are so oblivious to even doing the slightest bit of research on currency we have today. I honestly cannot take anything you post seriously. edit: nor should anyone else.

Edited February 27, 2014 by MillerGenuineDraft

[mdehaan]

to sum it up, you dont like those tactics in the current market right now, so you prefer markets without rules?

holy crap this logic

No I don't prefer markets without rules, quite the opposite.

[Papayas]

You are so blind it is ridiculous, I can't even fathom. You're posting about all these 'problems' with bitcoin, yet are so oblivious to even doing the slightest bit of research on currency we have today. I honestly cannot take anything you post seriously. edit: nor should anyone else.

Nice, you sure did a nice job backing up what you said with statistic and facts instead of one liner

[nuckin_futz]

really?

1. Mt Gox is the biggest trade center for bitcoin. It is responsible for the major amount of Bitcoins in the market. If it goes down like this it doesn't really matter what the price of the bitcoin is on other smaller trading site, it will crush the value of bitcoins.

2. Ok, let's totally ignore the price on the biggest trading site for Bitcoins for now and pretend it's just a temperory website issue. Bitcoins' value still dropped from 1000 usd per coin to the whooping 500-600 usd per pop across the board now outside of mtGox. That's a 40-50% drop in value in just 2 months of time.

Even dating back to Jan before the MtGox problem the price for Bitcoin is hovering at around 700-800 bucks a month after hitting the 1.1k mark.

Do you have any idea, just any idea how large those numbers are?

3. The problem for bitcoin is that there is no regulations on its trade process and rules. If the price chart of bitcoin shows you anything, it is that it is extremely easy to manipulate the value of its price for a small group of people, and those are the group of people in the current bitcoin market who would eat up all your ???? hard earn money whenever they feel like it.

but hey~ don't take my word for me. I dare you to invest a major amount of money into the bitcoin market and see how it will get you after a year.

1.Mt.Gox is no longer the largest BTC exchange. In fact it's no longer anything, not even a website. All posts have been wiped from it's Twitter account and the CEO is thought to be in hiding in Tokyo. Anyone who has money there is most likely fracked.

2. You are absolutely correct on this point. The price swings are undeniably violent and at this time only for hardened investors/gamblers.

3. It's very easy for large players in the markets to manipulate just about anything. Even in regulated markets. Take Natural gas for example. In a 5 week stretch from January - February of this year the price of Natural Gas rose approx 30%. Natural Gas is a bit more important to the economy than Bitcoins.

Heck in the early 90's George Soros is credited with forcing the Bank of England to withdraw from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism and devalue the pound after he shorted more than $10billion dollars in pounds and forced their hand.

Soros is quoted as saying "Our total position by Black Wednesday had to be worth almost $10 billion. We planned to sell more than that. In fact, when Norman Lamont said just before the devaluation that he would borrow nearly $15 billion to defend sterling, we were amused because that was about how much we wanted to sell."

[Grapefruits]

really?

1. Mt Gox is the biggest trade center for bitcoin. It is responsible for the major amount of Bitcoins in the market. If it goes down like this it doesn't really matter what the price of the bitcoin is on other smaller trading site, it will crush the value of bitcoins.

2. Ok, let's totally ignore the price on the biggest trading site for Bitcoins for now and pretend it's just a temperory website issue. Bitcoins' value still dropped from 1000 usd per coin to the whooping 500-600 usd per pop across the board now outside of mtGox. That's a 40-50% drop in value in just 2 months of time.

Even dating back to Jan before the MtGox problem the price for Bitcoin is hovering at around 700-800 bucks a month after hitting the 1.1k mark.

Do you have any idea, just any idea how large those numbers are?

3. The problem for bitcoin is that there is no regulations on its trade process and rules. If the price chart of bitcoin shows you anything, it is that it is extremely easy to manipulate the value of its price for a small group of people, and those are the group of people in the current bitcoin market who would eat up all your ???? hard earn money whenever they feel like it.

but hey~ don't take my word for me. I dare you to invest a major amount of money into the bitcoin market and see how it will get you after a year.

1. Mt. Gox WAS the biggest trade center. Most had very little trust in gox anymore and saw this collapse coming for a long time.

2. Again, gox was the biggest at one time. As for the price, look at it this way. Yes, it was worth around $1000 2 months ago. What was it worth 2 months before that? Over all, it's doing very well.

3. Anything is easily manipulated with the right amount of money or power.

I may take you op on your dare.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Grapefruits