aqua59 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 In our present day society things are instant. One flips a switch, something instantly comes on. We watch a movie an entire story evolves from beginning to finish in a few hours. We live in a world of quick results. Where change is quick with out consequences because it's predictable. How many of you have built anything substantial involving the human element? It could be coaching, it could be growing a business or getting a degree. All things need goals and plans to succeed from an individual stand point or group stand point. Planning, and strategies towards lofty goals take time, with many unseen variables. Throw in the human element and things aren't easy to achieve. Only hard work and perseverance will achieve one's goal. Right now the Vancouver Canucks are in the middle of dealing with variables, (injuries coupled with young inexperienced call ups), yet need to stay the course with their direction. They can adjust along the way but the course must stay the same. Management and ownership knows what it takes because they've been there before. When there is growth often it's accompanied with pain and there's no doubt that at present Vancouver is some what painful to watch. Fans are expecting the same results from Vancouver as when they had Santorelli in the line up. That's just one player. Defensively they're really missing 2 key players, yet fans expect the same defensive game from the team as while they're fully healthy. There's a thread regarding Mr Aquillini visiting the Canucks in Toronto. Instant speculation was he was there to find out from Gillis what was going on. Total speculation with only trailer court information. In the end Mr Aquilllini was there to encourage his team, some thing only a great owner would do during a time of struggle. Then there's the trades people propose. They deal players like they were just cards. Those players are part of the human, non predictable element. Take David Booth, not on his worse day in Florida did he play this inept. If any one is pis$ed at this guy Gillis is. He's made Gillis look the fool. Expectations far from met. There are more players that have failed beyond the injuries. Gillis and Co aren't in this to fail. They are fully aware of their players short comings are as far as contracts go. This is the part where they need to stick to the plan, ignore the whine of the fan and stay the course. This loosing Vancouver has been doing has over shadowed a very nice move Gills made by getting Diaz in and Wiese a chance somewhere else. Diaz is a big upgrade on Weber and when the rest of the D come back some one will be on the out side look in and it won't be Diaz. In the big picture and scheme of things Gillis managed to upgrade a pretty good defense when healthy. This is slow going but everything will be fine in the end. Right now is when some Canuck fans should evolve and see the bigger picture. A panicky move by management couple set this team back years. This is part of drafting and developing your own guys. Some fans need to suck it up and stop whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 agree lad......we can be disappointed without the whine and turning on everyone when the going gets tough.... everyone from the top to the bottom wants to win....certainly the players do... people make trades on here like they would go to the super market and buy groceries.... management knows the problems on this team, but don't jump and make a bad trade to appease whiney, me fans. when the deals arise that will make the team better, they will make them.... gillis isn't going to keep the fans in the know about what they are trying to do....why would he... some fans, don't just want change, but want it done yesterday..... the players are struggling right now...that doesn't make them any less important to the team.....guys like burrows and sedins don't just forget how to play the game....burrows vision seems to be affected by the cage....henrik has been trying to play at less than 100% healthy and i venture to think danny isn't in top shape either.... i'm sure there will be changes come off season if not before....i shall wait without the whine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoast Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Can you agree that this course is in danger of leaving the team with absolutely nothing if it fails.People are floating the idea of a rebuild because the Canucks actually have a lot of assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Killer Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Anaheim finished 13th in 11-12, had 6th overall. We need to retool, our good players need to find their game. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0043122012.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mispelled Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Right now is when some Canuck fans should evolve and see the bigger picture. A panicky move by management couple set this team back years. This is part of drafting and developing your own guys. Some fans need to suck it up and stop whining. So the mess Gillis has created will go away on its own? Your "bigger picture" failed to bring to light how a GM with an empty cupboard went out and hired a coach known for his system of essentially crippling his rosters, and then Gillis continued on his merry-making of handing out NTCs to his soft/injury-prone(edit) top 6, now expected to play 90% of the minutes, as demonstrated by Tortz's previous teams. No hill was needed to see this from last summer, or today. Gillis has an insurmountable task ahead of him. His days are numbered, but not before this thing really comes off the rails in April. What a legacy. Despite what you say here, this is not getting better anytime soon. I am not buying your message; I am not a sheeple in need of a Shepherd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 PATIENCE! Though I guarantee, if ticket prices weren't so high fans wouldn't be expecting us to win every game. The actual product being sold to fans right now is a little lack luster, and the organization needs to instill some life and excitement in the fan base. I was very excited after seeing who we drafted last year, and I'm hoping we add a couple elite prospects in the next couple years. Watching the young guys develop and seeing them start their NHL career's will be the most exciting thing for me during the season. Playoffs is still a possibility every year and that's a great thing, but the team has become slightly predictable, I hope they are able to get healthy and play a little more unpredictably after the break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mispelled Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Perspective of this is years old. Fans have seen issues grow into this season. It is hard not to be emotional about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gunn Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'm one of those whiny fans you talk about, I'd rather consider myself a critic voicing an opinion on how to improve things however I must admit there certainly is a part of me who wishes I was a cheerleader like the OP and those who support him, I imagine their selective ignorance is bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Some perspective- 2011- SCF- lost in 7 games 2012- 1st round knocked out by LA- 4gms to 1 2013 -1st round knocked out by SJ- 4gms to 0 it should take at least making it to the 2nd round to save Gillis's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfall Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 It's funny that those who want the rebuild the most are the ones who can't handle the current growing pains. IMO the team is already partway in rebuilding mode which started with hiring torts and trading Schneider. I went into this year expecting it to be a bit of a write off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 It's funny that those who want the rebuild the most are the ones who can't handle the current growing pains. IMO the team is already partway in rebuilding mode which started with hiring torts and trading Schneider. I went into this year expecting it to be a bit of a write off. Growing pains? |Trading a younger cheaper goalie you have designated your starter and the future of the franchise and keeping a 34 year old who wanted out. The re-signing an old core to NTC contracts. Yeah, has the smell of re-build all over it. FTR - I have been "growing" with this team since it came into the league. I've watched hockey when it was 1 game a week on B and W tv. I don't recall ever seeing a SC contender self-destruct as quickly and thoroughly as this team has. This kind of thing isn't just an anomaly, or bad luck or things outside of GIllis's control. For a team to fall like this one has is a combination of poor personnel decisions and a lack of foresight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 The post covered a lot and certainly won't sit well with reactionaries. Food for thought, deffinitley. There has to be a better plan then day to day thinking. I some how believe Gillis has seriously reviewed how the team/roster has done and the results it's brought. But then he needs to have a long term plan to build on keep some aspects but change others. When he drafted the likes of Hodgson and Schroeder were in his....formative days as a GM....days when he still actually believed what the NHL office told him. Now he's had time to realize believe nothing they say and follow the crowd...but try and do it better. The game follows the leaders it does not chnage the game and Gillis knows that........now. His long term plan I'm sure is closer to the LA/Bruins model than it was. The Detroit model was held up for years....but a lot of that was a overflow from the pre Cap era. Detroit is now like every one else. For instance deKaiser did not go to the AHL for year but direct to the Wings. Detroit has 64 point and Vcr 63. they're both feeling the effect equally. Worse of all I suspect the NHL is seriously looking at further watering down of the league with expansion, which will throw yet another wrench in the works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Anaheim finished 13th in 11-12, had 6th overall. We need to retool, our good players need to find their game. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0043122012.html I ???? like you LK we share very similar hockey opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 How many of you have built anything substantial involving the human element? It could be coaching, it could be growing a business or getting a degree. All things need goals and plans to succeed from an individual stand point or group stand point. Planning, and strategies towards lofty goals take time, with many unseen variables. Throw in the human element and things aren't easy to achieve. Only hard work and perseverance will achieve one's goal. +1 IMO Torts has made it clear to MG which players have a viable future with the team moving forward, and those who don't. I know everyone on CDC hates how long it can take MG to get things done, but no doubt he is probably working hard to turn things around. Guy wants to win as well people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I applaud the OP perspective of not panicking. I still have an empathetic view of those mad at MG. Much of our current ails are on his shoulders. However, my observation is that those ail's were created by making exactly the panicky moves between the summer of 2011 (after our SCF run) and last years deadline. Hey we went on an SCF run, but MG made cocky "bold" moves to trade for big bad PF's as quick fixes in case we faced Lucic again!? But we ignored numerous fundamentals. We lost our best natural RW, our depth play making center, our depth defensive center succombed to injury, we lost our PMD, a 216 lb speedster checking demon, then this last summer our depth speed forward (Raymond). All paying for those expensive fixes, in dollars or assets. Last deadline it was another expensive move to re-install someone that could play 3C. Our team was built developing the Bieksa's, Raymond's, Kesler's, Hansen's, Edler's, Burrow's, even the Sedins of our team. Then complimenting them astutely. Even if at a cost in $'s (ex Sundin or Errhoff), but we had the cap management to do that. Our team started going downhill as soon as we started throwing good role playing citizens under the bus and moving away from development for quick fixes. Trades will not solve the roster problems, unless our development renders us overstocked in categories (positions) to the point we can give up a player without costing ourselves. Trading Hodgson for example created a a bigger void than any role Kassian has filled to date. If we made that trade now, having signed Richardson, and subsequently drafted Horvat, Gaunce etc it would be more plausible. MG did the right thing last summer, after 2 years of panicking. He went back to solid scouting and retaining assets. Signed hard working guys who have been able to fill holes (if not with the talent to lift the team). He held on to his picks, even acquired an extra asset (by trading from a position we did have depth). Its those picks and assets that will ultimately have to outwork the Richardson's of the world, and push them to the 4th line, but provide the talent for the team to be dynamic. This year we are paying for the fact he deviated in the summer of 2011. If we panick again it will take longer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckleface77 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 agree lad......we can be disappointed without the whine and turning on everyone when the going gets tough.... everyone from the top to the bottom wants to win....certainly the players do... people make trades on here like they would go to the super market and buy groceries.... management knows the problems on this team, but don't jump and make a bad trade to appease whiney, me fans. when the deals arise that will make the team better, they will make them.... gillis isn't going to keep the fans in the know about what they are trying to do....why would he... some fans, don't just want change, but want it done yesterday..... the players are struggling right now...that doesn't make them any less important to the team.....guys like burrows and sedins don't just forget how to play the game....burrows vision seems to be affected by the cage....henrik has been trying to play at less than 100% healthy and i venture to think danny isn't in top shape either.... i'm sure there will be changes come off season if not before....i shall wait without the whine.... Wrong. All wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silfverberg Snipes Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Lol. How can you look at this team rationally and not see change is needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5nothincanucksohno Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 It's funny that those who want the rebuild the most are the ones who can't handle the current growing pains. IMO the team is already partway in rebuilding mode which started with hiring torts and trading Schneider. I went into this year expecting it to be a bit of a write off. I agree ^^^ Hopefully this is what Gillis is actually planning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFrame14 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 In our present day society things are instant. One flips a switch, something instantly comes on. We watch a movie an entire story evolves from beginning to finish in a few hours. We live in a world of quick results. Where change is quick with out consequences because it's predictable. How many of you have built anything substantial involving the human element? It could be coaching, it could be growing a business or getting a degree. All things need goals and plans to succeed from an individual stand point or group stand point. Planning, and strategies towards lofty goals take time, with many unseen variables. Throw in the human element and things aren't easy to achieve. Only hard work and perseverance will achieve one's goal. Right now the Vancouver Canucks are in the middle of dealing with variables, (injuries coupled with young inexperienced call ups), yet need to stay the course with their direction. They can adjust along the way but the course must stay the same. Management and ownership knows what it takes because they've been there before. When there is growth often it's accompanied with pain and there's no doubt that at present Vancouver is some what painful to watch. Fans are expecting the same results from Vancouver as when they had Santorelli in the line up. That's just one player. Defensively they're really missing 2 key players, yet fans expect the same defensive game from the team as while they're fully healthy. There's a thread regarding Mr Aquillini visiting the Canucks in Toronto. Instant speculation was he was there to find out from Gillis what was going on. Total speculation with only trailer court information. In the end Mr Aquilllini was there to encourage his team, some thing only a great owner would do during a time of struggle. Then there's the trades people propose. They deal players like they were just cards. Those players are part of the human, non predictable element. Take David Booth, not on his worse day in Florida did he play this inept. If any one is pis$ed at this guy Gillis is. He's made Gillis look the fool. Expectations far from met. There are more players that have failed beyond the injuries. Gillis and Co aren't in this to fail. They are fully aware of their players short comings are as far as contracts go. This is the part where they need to stick to the plan, ignore the whine of the fan and stay the course. This loosing Vancouver has been doing has over shadowed a very nice move Gills made by getting Diaz in and Wiese a chance somewhere else. Diaz is a big upgrade on Weber and when the rest of the D come back some one will be on the out side look in and it won't be Diaz. In the big picture and scheme of things Gillis managed to upgrade a pretty good defense when healthy. This is slow going but everything will be fine in the end. Right now is when some Canuck fans should evolve and see the bigger picture. A panicky move by management couple set this team back years. This is part of drafting and developing your own guys. Some fans need to suck it up and stop whining. Gillis is that you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Sparkle Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Lol. How can you look at this team rationally and not see change is needed? i can't. teams can rebound, but why hasn't this team? why are we known for being "mentally fragile"? at the end of the day, injuries might have something to do with it. for the amount of money the owners spend on outside stuff, what kind of medical staff do we have? it's garbage to clear hank to play when it was obvious he was still hurt and kes constantly being hurt. i wouldn't be surprised if kes and daniel are hurt too i'd rather have had a change in management before getting rid of vigs, and getting rid of vigs, at the time, was seen as a huge step in seeing if they could improve this team. well with 4 wins in, what, 20 games? it's hard to really cheer for a sad sack of a team just 2 years removed from a back-to-back presidents trophy season, and torts said it best in that post game "i'm tired of seeing the same look on these guys' faces" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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