6th Pick: 2014 NHL Entry Draft

[73 Percent]

Personally, I stay the heck away from Nylander. Everyone gets caught up in the hype of his 16 points in seven games, but if you take a closer look, he did nothing against the North American teams.

One point in three games against Canada and the USA.

All in all, since the NHL is about 70-75% North American still, stay away form guys that don't produce against the guys we know will be in the NHL one day.

ya dp yourself a favor. dont bother putting your 1cent in a thread that already has 230 pages of thought. we've literally picked apart every prospect that we could draft 4 times.

[Plum]

How the hell does that happen?

Size.

Point is the Petan of this draft.

[Plum]

Didn't his team (who is barely squeak into the playoffs) take North Bay (went to the OHL finals) to game 7? As I mentioned numerous times, not ONE single player on Niagara had a good playoffs, offensively, but they still manage to stick with the top teams. Just because Perlini isn't lighting up the scoresheet, doesn't mean he's unnoticeable. He does other things out there (defensively) to make his team win. You can't say that about Nylander. I rather build my team with players who can play a 200 ft game, than a guy who cares too much about being the superstar.

People are too fixated about getting a superstar, a player who can wow you on the ice. If you look at the LA Kings or Bruins, tell me one player on those teams who is a true "superstar", who carries the offense for the team? Those team score by committee, not rely on one single player.

Assumption of Nylander's attitude.

No one is saying we want Nylander to be the one man show this year, we have many other options than just Nylander if we draft him. And in 2-3 years we'll have other star prospects.

[JohnLocke]

Personally, I stay the heck away from Nylander. Everyone gets caught up in the hype of his 16 points in seven games, but if you take a closer look, he did nothing against the North American teams.

One point in three games against Canada and the USA.

All in all, since the NHL is about 70-75% North American still, stay away form guys that don't produce against the guys we know will be in the NHL one day.

Patrick Kane didn't produce against good teams in the Olympics. Bust?

[TOMapleLaughs]

You should go back a page or 2 and read Bilbro's post. Just because he didn't put up 10 points against USA and Canada doesn't mean he didn't do "anything" as you're stating. If you watch Nylander in the U18, you see a man amongst boys. Totally dominant, even against the US. Nylander also didn't have the most talented line-mates, or as much of a talented team as the US or Canada. Nylander made Axel Holmstrom in the tournament. That speaks for itself.

If passing to the other pointman on the power play is 'dominant' then yes. Didn't he have a 7-point night featuring this play? The other pointman apparently had a pretty hard shot. Too much is being put into this performance imho. It's not transferable.

You have to go beyond a narrow amount of games against some pretty weak competition if you want a better grasp of what the production is imho.

The one goal in 22 shl games is a concern to me. This is well behind Backstrom's draft year pace. Backstrom became a ppg shl player the year after he was drafted. Will Nylander? Doubtful.

But why does this matter? Well, if Nylander is reportedly horrible at defense like most amateur scouts say, then he'll need to put up Backstrom-like offense to counter it. Otherwise he'll be in the doghouse more often that not.

If that offense isn't there then he may become a well-sheltered qualcomp player. That just doesn't sound too exciting to me. I would much rather have a guy who the coach wouldn't be scared to play against top opponents in any situation.

For this draft at #6 i didn't expect an elite talent anyway. It's not there at 6. It might not even be there at 1 or 2.

The Canucks would be better suited chosing a low-risk, big, fast dependable winger type like Virtanen than a low-percentage chance at being one-dimensionally elite, small qualcomp-type player like Sergei Shirokov, er, Willie Nylander.

If the Canucks had made moves like what i'm suggesting in the past, they'd probably have ROR instead of Schroeder. Makes sense, doesn't it?

[R3aL]

If passing to the other pointman on the power play is 'dominant' then yes. Didn't he have a 7-point night featuring this play? The other pointman apparently had a pretty hard shot. Too much is being put into this performance imho. It's not transferable.

You have to go beyond a narrow amount of games against some pretty weak competition if you want a better grasp of what the production is imho.

The one goal in 22 shl games is a concern to me. This is well behind Backstrom's draft year pace. Backstrom became a ppg shl player the year after he was drafted. Will Nylander? Doubtful.

But why does this matter? Well, if Nylander is reportedly horrible at defense like most amateur scouts say, then he'll need to put up Backstrom-like offense to counter it. Otherwise he'll be in the doghouse more often that not.

If that offense isn't there then he may become a well-sheltered qualcomp player. That just doesn't sound too exciting to me. I would much rather have a guy who the coach wouldn't be scared to play against top opponents in any situation.

For this draft at #6 i didn't expect an elite talent anyway. It's not there at 6. It might not even be there at 1 or 2.

The Canucks would be better suited chosing a low-risk, big, fast dependable winger type like Virtanen than a low-percentage chance at being one-dimensionally elite, small qualcomp-type player like Sergei Shirokov, er, Willie Nylander.

If the Canucks had made moves like what i'm suggesting in the past, they'd probably have ROR instead of Schroeder. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Wasn't backstom all but a month of his draft year? Wasn't he also 19 all but a month after the draft year where he became a ppg player?

Just for comparison sakes, Nylander was 17 all season, and will be 18 all next season.

I think comparing Nylander to Shirokov is a bit of a stretch, I wont pretend to be a Nylander pro because I am far from it.

But I think he does have an incredibly high ceiling, his production in Allsvenskan to finish the season off was quite spectacular.

Here is a quote from HF:

"

novon04

Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011

Country:

Posts: 123

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTT

This simply isn't true.

SHL: 22th best point totals as U18 player (16th in ppg)

Allsvenskan: 4th best point totals as U18 player (1st in ppg)

SuperElit(last year): 20 best point total as U18 player (7th in ppg)

WJC-U18 6th all time on points, (Best swede)

He is nowhere near where Bäckström was in his draft year. Bäckström played full season in SEL, U20's and WC's. Nylander did none of that.

Let me correct your errors

SuperElit(last year): Most points and by far 1st in ppg among u18 players, second best u17 season ever in terms of both points and ppg.

Allsvenskan: Highest point total and highest ppg by a u18 player ever. He played for two teams, I guess you didnt add those points together.

And for the WJC-U18 you can add that he had the highest amount of points ever by a swedish player .

So yeah, his point totals certainly supports the "hype".

Edit: I suppose you ment "all time" on all the stats, in that case you should compare him with other U17 players last year, not U 18.

"

He may not have the full 200ft game, but I think he will have the work ethic and the drive to develop it, as long as we take the time to develop him and teach him.

I am very much so open to drafting him, I think he has the makings of a very special player.

[JiffyPB]

If passing to the other pointman on the power play is 'dominant' then yes. Didn't he have a 7-point night featuring this play? The other pointman apparently had a pretty hard shot. Too much is being put into this performance imho. It's not transferable.

You have to go beyond a narrow amount of games against some pretty weak competition if you want a better grasp of what the production is imho.

The one goal in 22 shl games is a concern to me. This is well behind Backstrom's draft year pace. Backstrom became a ppg shl player the year after he was drafted. Will Nylander? Doubtful.

But why does this matter? Well, if Nylander is reportedly horrible at defense like most amateur scouts say, then he'll need to put up Backstrom-like offense to counter it. Otherwise he'll be in the doghouse more often that not.

If that offense isn't there then he may become a well-sheltered qualcomp player. That just doesn't sound too exciting to me. I would much rather have a guy who the coach wouldn't be scared to play against top opponents in any situation.

For this draft at #6 i didn't expect an elite talent anyway. It's not there at 6. It might not even be there at 1 or 2.

The Canucks would be better suited chosing a low-risk, big, fast dependable winger type like Virtanen than a low-percentage chance at being one-dimensionally elite, small qualcomp-type player like Sergei Shirokov, er, Willie Nylander.

If the Canucks had made moves like what i'm suggesting in the past, they'd probably have ROR instead of Schroeder. Makes sense, doesn't it?

I had replied to you about the same thing earlier but I guess you didn't change your mind despite telling you that players in their first years in the SEL are used in lesser roles and typically don't put up big numbers in their first stint. Also MANY teams including the legendary Detroit Red Wings (who passed on ROR for Landon Ferraro lmfao) didn't bother drafting him. To say you had a crystal ball or any knowledge whatsoever that ROR would become anything more than a third liner when he was drafted is silly. If we passed on Schroeder we would have most likely selected someone like Johansson or a dud like Kyle Clifford who is nothing more than a 4th liner that you could have signed cheap or picked off waivers anyways.

I agree, but that didn't stop, say, Niclas Backstrom, from being used way more and scoring at a way higher rate during his draft year in the same league.

Nylander couldn't even stick in the SHL this season. Red flag on this so-called elite skill.

The other red flag is his father's micromanagement. That's not attitude. That's not cockiness. That's another Coho fiasco. Does the article even mention that red flag?

Both Backstrom and Lindholm were overagers in their draft years. Backstrom at the same point of his development went 19 games without a point which is just as bad as Lindholm. Nylander has 7 in 22 in his first stint which isn't exactly a red flag on his skill. These younger players in professional Euro leagues don't get used like they would in the OHL because there are other more proven pros that are in the lineup that prevent them from getting top-6 minutes consistently. Would you gamble on a 17 year old on a first or second line in the SEL vs. 30 year old vets? It's better to give them a bottom-6 role and let them adjust to the league first rather than throw them into the fire.

His father's involvement could be an issue, but if you ween him away from his camp and keep him around pros like the Sedins and Edler I think he'll end up just fine and I highly doubt daddy has a problem with his son hanging around with future HOF swedes. He will have ZERO impact on how he gets used on the team and what role he plays. This is not Sweden. He has no sway on how his son will be used or what club he will play for. Also there is ZERO proof Cody's dad had any involvement in his son getting traded to Buffalo. That is speculation from asshurt canucks fans who wanna justify not getting full value from trading him.

The one goal argument I addressed towards canuck155 but it also applies to you

The Sedins were overagers in their draft years and had an extra year to show off their offensive prowess. Backstrom and Lindholm were also overagers and in the same stage of development as Nylander they both had ZERO points in 19 and 12 games respectively in the SEL. Henrik at the same stage of development had one goal and FIVE points total in 39 games and Daniel had 12 points (remember secondary assists do not count in the SEL which statistically will be a significant disadvantage for any playmaker vs a finisher like Daniel). To put it in perspective, Nylander outscored HENRIK SEDIN in half the games played in his first stint in the SEL without having a twin brother finishing for him and you even have a guy like Peter Forsberg praising him. Not bad at all in my eyes.

[Plum]

If passing to the other pointman on the power play is 'dominant' then yes. Didn't he have a 7-point night featuring this play? The other pointman apparently had a pretty hard shot. Too much is being put into this performance imho. It's not transferable.

You have to go beyond a narrow amount of games against some pretty weak competition if you want a better grasp of what the production is imho.

The one goal in 22 shl games is a concern to me. This is well behind Backstrom's draft year pace. Backstrom became a ppg shl player the year after he was drafted. Will Nylander? Doubtful.

But why does this matter? Well, if Nylander is reportedly horrible at defense like most amateur scouts say, then he'll need to put up Backstrom-like offense to counter it. Otherwise he'll be in the doghouse more often that not.

If that offense isn't there then he may become a well-sheltered qualcomp player. That just doesn't sound too exciting to me. I would much rather have a guy who the coach wouldn't be scared to play against top opponents in any situation.

For this draft at #6 i didn't expect an elite talent anyway. It's not there at 6. It might not even be there at 1 or 2.

The Canucks would be better suited chosing a low-risk, big, fast dependable winger type like Virtanen than a low-percentage chance at being one-dimensionally elite, small qualcomp-type player like Sergei Shirokov, er, Willie Nylander.

If the Canucks had made moves like what i'm suggesting in the past, they'd probably have ROR instead of Schroeder. Makes sense, doesn't it?

That is all assumption, Nylander could beat Backstorm's point totals. Players develop differently, players will have different point totals at junior does that mean they'll be worse? No. It's just an assumption you are coming up with. Also, Backstrom wasn't quite a PPG player in the SHL. Zetterberg wasn't quite PPG in a division lower than Allsvenskan and now look at him.

Clarke MacArthur had 75 points in 62 games, Virtanen had 71 points in 71 games. I guess Virtanen won't be as good as MacArthur right?

[UFCanuck]

I so can't wait till the draft... So much will happen, and so many possible changes..

All hype

[DrChill]

All hype

Ok, how many if any trades do the canucks do?

How many significant NHL trades?

[Junkyard Dog]

Ok, how many if any trades do the canucks do?

How many significant NHL trades?

Two at most.

One to trade Kesler, if they do, and one to move up in the draft, if they do.

[Pears]

How the hell does that happen?

Size. If Petan was say 6'0" and 185lbs last year he would've been top ten for sure.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Wasn't backstom all but a month of his draft year? Wasn't he also 19 all but a month after the draft year where he became a ppg player?

Just for comparison sakes, Nylander was 17 all season, and will be 18 all next season.

I think comparing Nylander to Shirokov is a bit of a stretch, I wont pretend to be a Nylander pro because I am far from it.

But I think he does have an incredibly high ceiling, his production in Allsvenskan to finish the season off was quite spectacular.

Here is a quote from HF:

"

novon04

Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011

Country:

Posts: 123

vCash: 500

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTT

This simply isn't true.

SHL: 22th best point totals as U18 player (16th in ppg)

Allsvenskan: 4th best point totals as U18 player (1st in ppg)

SuperElit(last year): 20 best point total as U18 player (7th in ppg)

WJC-U18 6th all time on points, (Best swede)

He is nowhere near where Bäckström was in his draft year. Bäckström played full season in SEL, U20's and WC's. Nylander did none of that. Let me correct your errors

SuperElit(last year): Most points and by far 1st in ppg among u18 players, second best u17 season ever in terms of both points and ppg.

Allsvenskan: Highest point total and highest ppg by a u18 player ever. He played for two teams, I guess you didnt add those points together.

And for the WJC-U18 you can add that he had the highest amount of points ever by a swedish player .

So yeah, his point totals certainly supports the "hype".

Edit: I suppose you ment "all time" on all the stats, in that case you should compare him with other U17 players last year, not U 18.

"

He may not have the full 200ft game, but I think he will have the work ethic and the drive to develop it, as long as we take the time to develop him and teach him.

I am very much so open to drafting him, I think he has the makings of a very special player.

I'm not entirely sold on this work ethic and drive to develop a 200ft game if he didn't have it to stick around in the SHL this season.

I think he was poised to be a consensus #1 pick this season, but he fell because of various concerns.

There are safer picks to make at 6th, certainly. I just don't see him lighting up SoCal teams, just as the Sedins have had a lot of trouble. Even if he's as skilled as hoped, he's going to have to be a sheltered player, imho. A power play-type. Doesn't sound all that appealling, given what we know about relying on these types for playoff victories.

[UFCanuck]

Ok, how many if any trades do the canucks do?

How many significant NHL trades?

zero at the draft, the Kesler trade in July or August.

I say 1-2 significant trades from the NHL by the draft.

2-8 minor deals.

[Gaudette Celly]

Kesler's gone by the draft, but looking more and more likely before. Much of the groundwork was laid at the deadline, so they're probably finishing up the short strokes on prospective deals, and it gives Benning more assets to work on moving up in the draft.

[TOMapleLaughs]

That is all assumption, Nylander could beat Backstorm's point totals. Players develop differently, players will have different point totals at junior does that mean they'll be worse? No. It's just an assumption you are coming up with. Also, Backstrom wasn't quite a PPG player in the SHL. Zetterberg wasn't quite PPG in a division lower than Allsvenskan and now look at him.

Clarke MacArthur had 75 points in 62 games, Virtanen had 71 points in 71 games. I guess Virtanen won't be as good as MacArthur right?

We should set some rules for comparison. What's the point of using the year after MacA was drafted? Not only that, but why use MacA at all if scouts deemed him a 3rd round talent?

Stats aren't everything. And while i pointed out Nylander's as compared to Backstrom's, that's only because Nylander apparently offers relatively nothing but offense. Perhaps if he was a 200ft player, hit the odd guy, or scored es goals in intense traffic, you could come up with some non-stats-related hoopla. But bottom line is the only excitement is based on qualcomp power play u18 tourney numbers and an inflated combine (which didn't feature Virtanen.)

Nylander's red flags concern me more than Virtanen's. The skill, whatever it is, just doesn't seem transferable. Magnus Paajarvi?

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

Kesler's gone by the draft, but looking more and more likely before. Much of the groundwork was laid at the deadline, so they're probably finishing up the short strokes on prospective deals, and it gives Benning more assets to work on moving up in the draft.

I'm sure Trevor at least will be hesitant to do an early trade and I think Benning would wait until draft day as well.

Why not line up a trade or two and pull the plug on them if something comes up last minute.

From the sounds of it (with Chicago being out on Kesler due to Benning's asking price) Benning wants a lot for Kes'

I suppose if he gets offered our collective wish of Etem plus the 10th and 24th picks then maybe do it early....

[Sedintwinpowersactivate]

This draft thread is legendary!

I think Ehlers is the best pick at #6. He is a battler and more defensively aware than Nylander. +65 is pretty impressive. I think in todays NHL you need players that have a high compete level to succeed. You could have size like Dustin Penner or Rene Bourque, but without a high compete level game in and out they are only teasers. Little guys like Gallagher and St. Louis that have outstanding compete levels make them very effective players in the NHL. If Ehlers was bigger and not Danish you could make a case for him going first over all. Which he may anyways... Tallon is a huge fan. I think Reinhart is the best player in this draft, followed closely by Ehlers and Leon. I would let somebody else pick Ekblad... he will be a top 4 NHL D man, but not a sure fire #1D. I think Ritchie and Virtanan are great picks too...I just wouldn't pick them at #6. Nylander has the same offensive skill as Ehlers but may have less of that high level of compete! Robbie Fabbri is another guy I like with an amazing compete level.

We can pick up players with size latter in the draft. Because unlike others on here I agree that in the Western Conference you need players with size. I'd like us to try and pick up Raffi Torres again. If we get another 1st rounder in the 10-15 range I'd love to see us pick Ritchie, Virtanan or Tuch! This is a possibility with a Kesler trade.

[Smashian Kassian]

Didn't his team (who is barely squeak into the playoffs) take North Bay (went to the OHL finals) to game 7? As I mentioned numerous times, not ONE single player on Niagara had a good playoffs, offensively, but they still manage to stick with the top teams. Just because Perlini isn't lighting up the scoresheet, doesn't mean he's unnoticeable. He does other things out there (defensively) to make his team win. You can't say that about Nylander. I rather build my team with players who can play a 200 ft game, than a guy who cares too much about being the superstar.

People are too fixated about getting a superstar, a player who can wow you on the ice. If you look at the LA Kings or Bruins, tell me one player on those teams who is a true "superstar", who carries the offense for the team? Those team score by committee, not rely on one single player.

Those teams have many players who carry offense.

We lack guys who can carry and create offense. Like I said before, you need to be able to score to win & thats the reason we lost the SC, and that's the reason we weren't in the post season this year.

You can be outstanding in every area aside from offense, but if you can't score you wont win no matter how good you are at everything else.

We have many two-way guys in our system, we have bigger guys, what we lack is offense, both on our NHL roster & in our system, we have a great chance with this pick to add a player to our organization who brings what we need the most, I don't see what sense it makes to not take that opportunity.

[Plum]

We should set some rules for comparison. What's the point of using the year after MacA was drafted? Not only that, but why use MacA at all if scouts deemed him a 3rd round talent?

Stats aren't everything. And while i pointed out Nylander's as compared to Backstrom's, that's only because Nylander apparently offers relatively nothing but offense. Perhaps if he was a 200ft player, hit the odd guy, or scored es goals in intense traffic, you could come up with some non-stats-related hoopla. But bottom line is the only excitement is based on qualcomp power play u18 tourney numbers and an inflated combine (which didn't feature Virtanen.)

Nylander's red flags concern me more than Virtanen's. The skill, whatever it is, just doesn't seem transferable. Magnus Paajarvi?

In Allsvenskan, he put up 19 points in 17 games, he was the leading PPG player for his team.

Last year as a 17 year old in the U20 league for Sweden he put 43 points in 27 games. And you're telling me let's see him do this, let's see him do that, you haven't even watched a game of him.

Let's brush off the fact he wrecked the U18's which included Jake Virtanen like it's a worthless meaning right?

I can name you many players who rarely hit but are still stars in the league.