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[NHL Entry Draft 2014]: "Mock Talk!" - Hosted by S N Y P E R S 7

Proposal

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#31 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:10 AM

First of all, Ehlers is not undersized. You make me chuckle. He's 6 feet tall.

Hmmm. So was Anton Rodin.


Looks like this years' draft is pretty weak. We better tank further.
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#32 theilluminati

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:38 AM

So basically you've just looked up people's heights? Great research, bro.


Do you not know the difference between height and weight..?...Oh wait, you used the word "bro", so you confusing the two is actually not a surprise...
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#33 Ice Cube

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:48 AM

Do you not know the difference between height and weight..?...Oh wait, you used the word "bro", so you confusing the two is actually not a surprise...


Ok, so you can tell who's gonna be a bust by checking their weight when they're 17 years old. Okey. Imagine if the Canucks knew that, they'd be able so save so much money on scouting! All they need is to look up the player's stats on some website...
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#34 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:02 AM

Gonna give the thumbs-down on William Nylander, on account he looks like a girl:

Posted Image

Posted Image


And Ehlers looks like a paperweight

[img]http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/PY4TOxDXekrI1DGj5ajmYg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2013-09-03/2ea6ca23-3516-4e61-9b82-7eeaae6d310b_Ehlers.jpg[/img]


Virtanen and Perlini at least look like they could grow up to be men.
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#35 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:11 AM

If a guy is built like Christian Bale's character in The Mechanic, even at 18, then i'd probably PASS.

Yeah, you can put on some muscle in the next few years, but if the frame is simply not there, it is impossible to get up to anything but Mason Raymond weight. If you're skinny, you're skinny.


Think a scout/writer etc. should know this.
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#36 theilluminati

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:22 AM

Ok, so you can tell who's gonna be a bust by checking their weight when they're 17 years old. Okey. Imagine if the Canucks knew that, they'd be able so save so much money on scouting! All they need is to look up the player's stats on some website...


The origianl post mentioned a bunch of players weights and didn't mention height once yet you responded with "So basically you've just looked up people's heights? Great research, bro." IF you're going to chirp somebody you should at least read the post first otherwise you look incredibly stupid. Kind of how you look now...again...
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#37 Ice Cube

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:45 AM

The origianl post mentioned a bunch of players weights and didn't mention height once yet you responded with "So basically you've just looked up people's heights? Great research, bro." IF you're going to chirp somebody you should at least read the post first otherwise you look incredibly stupid. Kind of how you look now...again...


Ok, sorry about that. I'll edit the post so it says weights. The fact still remains: your "research" was awful. All you've done is look at how much the top prospects weigh and you've judged them sorely on that. Your post didn't hold any interesting information at all. It was just as bad as if someone had linked the top ten scorers in every junior league and said that the top ten scorers were the top prospects.
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#38 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:23 AM

You know a lot of NHL teams pass on lightweight players solely because they're lightweight players, right?

You can't coach size and strength.


Meanwhile, Ehlers is currently out-scoring Jonathan Drouin, but isn't ranked nearly as high as Jonathan Drouin was when he was drafted. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why. (games played aside ;) )


Saw him live earlier this year when I was in Halifax (this game: http://www.theqmjhl....show/game/65011). Halifax were without Drouin, and got completely dominated for the first 2 periods, but then turned it on in the 3rd and came back to win. I thought Ehlers was definitely the most talented player on the ice, for either team, and he was a big part of the comeback. He clearly has very nice hands, very good vision, a great shot, and just a high skill level in general. The coach even had him out in a number of key defensive situations (such as a PK + empty net situation when they were defending a lead), and he did well defensively too.

On the down side, he was obviously very skinny/undersized, a total perimeter player at this point who gets dominated physically. He's obviously quite young, but his future will really depend on how much size/strength he can add. If he can get strong enough to win puck battles and play down low he's going to be a good NHLer, if not then he'll be a poor man's Filatov.



The problem with picking Ehlers high is simple. First, while he's skilled, he's not can't miss top-5 pick skilled. So to get over that lack of elite skilled he'll need to put on 40lbs to be an effective 1st line player in the NHL. That's too much to ask. So he'll be a Mason Raymond type at best. A low qualcomp, perimeter guy who falls down a lot. Not a 1st rounder unless you somehow have a dire, dire need for a Mason Raymond type.


We're going to have a similar problem with Hunter Shinkaruk, imho. Esp. with that significant injury.

BTW. Ehlers and Shinkaruk play the exact same position, style and role. So WHY IN THE HELL would we draft Ehlers?
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#39 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:44 AM

You know a lot of NHL teams pass on lightweight players solely because they're lightweight players, right?

You can't coach size and strength.


Meanwhile, Ehlers is currently out-scoring Jonathan Drouin, but isn't ranked nearly as high as Jonathan Drouin was when he was drafted. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why. (games played aside ;) )





The problem with picking Ehlers high is simple. First, while he's skilled, he's not can't miss top-5 pick skilled. So to get over that lack of elite skilled he'll need to put on 40lbs to be an effective 1st line player in the NHL. That's too much to ask. So he'll be a Mason Raymond type at best. A low qualcomp, perimeter guy who falls down a lot. Not a 1st rounder unless you somehow have a dire, dire need for a Mason Raymond type.


We're going to have a similar problem with Hunter Shinkaruk, imho. Esp. with that significant injury.

BTW. Ehlers and Shinkaruk play the exact same position, style and role. So WHY IN THE HELL would we draft Ehlers?


While I agree that we should try to avoid drafting Ehlers (namely because having Drouin as a linemate skews his statline), I'd have to argue that more recently it's the smaller players that are having more success down low and in front of the net. Look at Skinner and Gallagher, a majority of their goals come from just a few feet outside the crease. Marchand as well, it's about cutting the distance between loose pucks and the opposition, that bigger players with slower first strides just can't match.

It is because of this, I believe Shinkaruk should never be considered a perimeter players. Ehlers on the other hand is as soft as soft gets.
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Credit to -Vintage Canuck-


#40 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:00 PM

Agreed Shinkaruk has way more edge and NHL upside, but ghaaa, that injury. I sincerely hope he recovers from that asap and starts developing again. More importantly, I hope his injuries are put behind him. Knock on wood.
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#41 Industrious1

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 03:12 PM

I've had a few friends back in the day go from about 150 pounds in school to around 200 in a few years..I mean sure it isn't as fast as some people would like, but certainly not as impossible as others would make it seem.

Not to mention these guys aren't starving Prince Georgian students at New Caledonia trying to work part time so they can eat a regular meal. They will get fed, they will work out. Most will bulk up.
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#42 wshdrvvn

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 04:31 PM

Agreed Shinkaruk has way more edge and NHL upside, but ghaaa, that injury. I sincerely hope he recovers from that asap and starts developing again. More importantly, I hope his injuries are put behind him. Knock on wood.


the hip surgery is worrisome to a point. but if he had to have it done, now is better than later. if rehab goes well and he doesnt tweek anything else this off-season, he's right on schedule to go pro next year.
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#43 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 05:37 PM

A 20lb post-draft NHL bulk up is the norm. 40-50lbs? Not typical. You also don't know how they'll perform after all that weight gain. Will they lose mobility? Endurance? Everyone is different, but these questions arising early on usually means the player will fall in the draft unless he just has an INSANE, Patrick Kane amount of skill.


Looking more at the Kane 2007 entry draft, a shallow one like this seasons':

An example of a 40lb bulk up is Alex Killorn from the 2007 entry draft. Skinny, but average height, he fell from the 2nd round to the 3rd. 7 years later he's an effective forward for Tampa. Sortof. Hey, good for him.

An example of a skinny bust is Jonathon Blum from the same draft. He fell a few spots but was still picked in the first round because he was a right-shooting d-man with offensive potential. He gained 30lbs, but never did bring anything to the NHL, even in Nashville's elite defense development system. Waived and in the minors now.

An example of a 5'-9" short guy busting is Stefan Legein, who was ranked mid-1st round, but fell to the 2nd round. He didn't have elite skill, got hurt early on and never amounted to anything.

Dana Tyrell was ranked mid-1st, fell to the 2nd, and is a fringe player today.



Mac Pacioretty, who was NHL-sized at draft, was ranked below Tyrell, but did not fall in the draft. He is an effective top-liner today.

Logan Couture, also NHL-sized at draft, rose late to 9th overall. He is an effective top-liner today.


Yes, both groups of players have their share of busts, it happens, but if you're banking on success, shouldn't NHL-readiness come into play? There is far more likelihood for an undersized draftee to bust and there is far more likelihood for an NHL-sized draftee to succeed.

Either way, the small guy? Yeah, unless he has elite skill, he falls in the draft. The team that picks him up is rolling the dice. Yes, you're rolling the dice anyway, but like I say above, isn't rolling the dice on an NHL-sized guy far more likely to pan out?


More examples: 2011 draft:

Baertchi, Ryan Murphy, and Ty Rattie?

or

Saad, Scheifele, and Boone Jenner?


All good players. All ranked fairly high in the draft. But gee, which ones already look like solid NHLers?

If you want to have success with young players, then those young players simply need have more NHL qualities at a young age.
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#44 missioncanucksfan

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 05:45 PM

Hey everyone,

S N Y P E R S 7 here.

A lot of people have been asking me, because I watch over 200 prospects develop year-to-year, what I think the draft will look like.

I will keep this updated, but here is my proposed Mock Draft

{As of 2/19/2014}:


Buffalo Sabres: Aaron Ekblad
Edmonton Oilers: Sam Reinhart
Florida Panthers: Leon Draisaitl
Calgary Flames: Sam Bennett
NYI: Nicholas Ritchie (NYI's favorite player for a very long time)
Nashville Predators: Michael Dal Colle
Carolina Hurricanes: Haydn Fleury (Carolina favorite for a very long time)
Winnipeg Jets: Jake Virtanen
Vancouver Canucks: Nikolaj Ehlers
Washington Capitals: William Nylander
Anaheim Ducks: Brendan Perlini
Columbus Blue Jackets: Kasperi Kapanen (CBJ favorite for a very long time)
Detroit Red Wings: Ivan Barbashev
Arizona Coyotes: Jared McCann
Dallas Stars: Anton Karlsson
Philadelphia Flyers: Roland McKeown
NYR: Anthony DeAngelo
L.A. Kings: Sonny Milano (L.A. favorite for a very long time)
Minnesota Wild: Dylan Larkin
Toronto Maple Leafs: Josh Ho-Sang
Montreal Canadiens: Alex Tuch (Habs favorite for a very long time)
Tampa Bay Lightning: David Pastrnak
Boston Bruins: Robby Fabbri (Bruins favorite for a very long time)
Colorado Avalanche: Jakub Vrana
San Jose Sharks: Nikita Scherbak
Pittsburgh Penguins: Nick Schmaltz
Chicago Blackhawks: Nikolay Goldobin
St. Louis Blues: Adrian Kempe
Anaheim Ducks (2): Julius Honka


Please feel free to post your own Mock Drafts, subscribe to the thread!
This is a free place to voice your opinions.

Thats good that NYI have been coveting Nick Ritchie for a long time but THAT pick belongs to the Buffalo Sabres. With the announcement of Tavares being out the rest of the season....I could hear the jumping and high fives from Lafontaine and Murray. That pick will surely be alot higher come draft day

Reinhart and Ekblad will surely be wearing Sabre uniforms.

Couple that with whatever they get for Moulson, Miller, and Ott.

Ekblad
Zadarov
Myers

nice young defence core

That being said....this surely changes alot of the landscape in regards to who picks who.

Florida already having a great young nucleus down the middle....Barkov, Huberdeau, and Bjugstad. Look for them to opt for one of the big wingers or Fluery could be defaulted to 3rd overall to shore their D prospects. My guess is still one of the Dal Colle or Pirlini.

Edmonton will gladly pick Fluery if he is available.

That leaves Calgary to pick up Bennett or Draisaitl

Edited by missioncanucksfan, 20 February 2014 - 06:37 PM.

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#45 Gyllenhaal

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:21 PM

Thats good that NYI have been coveting Nick Ritchie for a long time but THAT pick belongs to the Buffalo Sabres. With the announcement of Tavares being out the rest of the season....I could hear the jumping and high fives from Lafontaine and Murray. That pick will surely be alot higher come draft day

Reinhart and Ekblad will surely be wearing Sabre uniforms.

Couple that with whatever they get for Moulson, Miller, and Ott.

Ekblad
Zadarov
Myers

nice young defence core



NYI can choose to keep the pick if its in the top 10, so SNYPERS is right, you're the one who's wrong.
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#46 missioncanucksfan

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:39 PM

NYI can choose to keep the pick if its in the top 10, so SNYPERS is right, you're the one who's wrong.

clearly I must humbly apologize
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#47 missioncanucksfan

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:39 PM

NYI can choose to keep the pick if its in the top 10, so SNYPERS is right, you're the one who's wrong.

clearly I must humbly apologize
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#48 elvis15

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:53 PM

dont you have a job and or school?

He could still have a job or school. He said himself he watches all the Halifax games and then CHL highlights afterward. How's that different than what most people on CDC do watching Canucks games and NHL highlights on TV every night?

Who do you write for?

CDC, duh.
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#49 Blueberries

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:00 PM

Besides Ekblad,Reinhart and a couple more guys, everyone else is going to be a bust.
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#50 BanTSN

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:08 PM

No. But the majority of the draft will be a bust, yes. Hey like every draft.
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#51 Shinkaruk_9

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:02 PM

Virtanen has the tools to be a success.
I cannot envision him as a bust.
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#52 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:06 PM

Besides Ekblad,Reinhart and a couple more guys, everyone else is going to be a bust.


Yea???? how many times have you seen the top 30 ranked players play live?

I love how people at canucks.com talk out of their asses sometimes. Good times.
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Well, I , I feel very good about this draft, but I, I think, potentially you know were gonna have 3 or 4 NHL players out of this group, ummmm, you know like we are not going to prejudice to were they are from.

 

-Jim Benning June 27, 2015 shortly after the completion of the 2015 NHL Entry draft in Miami Florida.


#53 StealthNuck

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:24 PM

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