Crabcakes Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: I agree, but what if JB and TL bring Zalewski up now? Behind closed doors can't you hear WD saying Zalewski is in for Vey, but then putting Vey on the lineup sheet? He already did that with Prust over Virtanen. I think Zalewski is competing with Cracknell. Vey is up against McCann, Horvat, and Sutter. I think Zalewski gets his shot at camp. But if he plays too well, it may be sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Fan 0727 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 6 hours ago, Crabcakes said: I think Zalewski is competing with Cracknell. Vey is up against McCann, Horvat, and Sutter. I think Zalewski gets his shot at camp. But if he plays too well, it may be sooner. Agree 100%. Vey is not going anywhere off that 3rd line. Once Henrik comes back? McCann is not going to see much ice time IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobart16 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 8 hours ago, Alflives said: Should it not be WD deciding if Mike takes shoot outs for the ?Big Club? The guy is clearly a much better player than Vey. Why is he not with the Canucks? i was thinking of Travis while Mike is here. I wont be missing any games because i think his days in Utica are numbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 10 hours ago, Canucks Prophet said: If Gillis had invested more time into the prospects earlier in his term, instead of near the end as a way to salvage his sinking career here, maybe things would have turned out differently for him, and the franchise. Just food for thought. Just my own thoughts of course, but... The Gillis firing came a year late. The Torterella fiasco, issues with Lou and failure to make the play off's (all which cost money) were the clinchers. But the damage was actually done the years before. Mike actually did a highly credible job his last year (Torts, whatever level of which was his fault aside). We picked up Santorelli & Richardson. Gillis had by far his best draft. Pretty sure that's also when Zalewski surfaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Just my own thoughts of course, but... The Gillis firing came a year late. The Torterella fiasco, issues with Lou and failure to make the play off's (all which cost money) were the clinchers. But the damage was actually done the years before. Mike actually did a highly credible job his last year (Torts, whatever level of which was his fault aside). We picked up Santorelli & Richardson. Gillis had by far his best draft. Pretty sure that's also when Zalewski surfaced? Yes. Zalewski was signed as a free agent Mar 14, 2014. That's less than a month before Gillis was terminated on Apr 8, 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyg43 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Can see him having a real shot next fall on the big 4th line. Also see Virtanen an possibly McCann going to the Comets for more seasoning an development that leaves Shink an Gaunce competing most likely for middling 6 spots on big club barring any block buster trades .I think Vrbatta will be gone so one spot will be freed up.As for Cracknell he may be odd man out here. He is a good story an plays up to 4 line billing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 13 hours ago, Canucks Prophet said: If Gillis had invested more time into the prospects earlier in his term, instead of near the end as a way to salvage his sinking career here, maybe things would have turned out differently for him, and the franchise. Just food for thought. He was in a win now mode trading prospects and picks for players, you get it or you don't. Yes he did have some downer years drafting, but as of late someo his picks are looking pretty promising. Horvat, Hutton, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, and even if late Anton Rodin are all excelling in their current leagues and look toward moving to NHL ice if they're not already there. Not even including his College F/A signings and Euro League Signings. Mike Gillis was one of the best GM's this team ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Prophet Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 hour ago, WonderTwinPowers said: He was in a win now mode trading prospects and picks for players, you get it or you don't. Yes he did have some downer years drafting, but as of late someo his picks are looking pretty promising. Horvat, Hutton, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, and even if late Anton Rodin are all excelling in their current leagues and look toward moving to NHL ice if they're not already there. Not even including his College F/A signings and Euro League Signings. Mike Gillis was one of the best GM's this team ever had. That's not saying much, considering we've only had 11 GMs so far. He doesn't come close to the intelligence and brilliance of Pat Quinn. Teams like Detroit and Chicago prove that you can stay competitive while using and developing young players. That's how you remain competitive for years, instead of being a one-and-done team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Canucks Prophet said: That's not saying much, considering we've only had 11 GMs so far. He doesn't come close to the intelligence and brilliance of Pat Quinn. Teams like Detroit and Chicago prove that you can stay competitive while using and developing young players. That's how you remain competitive for years, instead of being a one-and-done team. I like how you don't acknowledge the fact that his players and moves are right now keeping this team competitve, while also ushering in a massive changing of the guard. Do you honestly believe Detroit and Chicago never had bad draft years? Chicago's style of recycling non core players has kept them competitive and Detroit's excellent scouting and development have helped them, but both these teams have flopped in their history of drafting too, not only Mike Gillis who excelled in finding talent outside of the draft, but why acknowledge that either right? I bet you though AV was a horrible coach too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Prophet Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, WonderTwinPowers said: I like how you don't acknowledge the fact that his players and moves are right now keeping this team competitve, while also ushering in a massive changing of the guard. Do you honestly believe Detroit and Chicago never had bad draft years? Chicago's style of recycling non core players has kept them competitive and Detroit's excellent scouting and development have helped them, but both these teams have flopped in their history of drafting too, not only Mike Gillis who excelled in finding talent outside of the draft, but why acknowledge that either right? I bet you though AV was a horrible coach too. Wow, you're funny. In my original comment, I said he should have done what he was doing in his last years earlier. Doesn't that imply that I think he did well in those drafts? But at that point, it was too little too late. The Canucks were already declining, and had no good prospects to fill in the gaps. And no, I loved AV. I thought he should have stayed, and Gillis should have been fired first. But I guess you wanna forget about who fired AV in the first place, that's cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Prophet Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 For the record, I'm not trying to discredit Gillis completely. I acknowledge that he built a great Stanley Cup team. I'm just saying that I wish he invested more time into finding and acquiring good prospects to continually grow the franchise, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Gillis did what Capitals will be doing making ready for a good run at the Cup. That was his emphasis. He was fired simply because Aqualinni screwed up signing Tortorella and couldn't stand the thought of facing Gillis with that "I told you so" face for years to come. He did a lot of good things. Markstrom ( in 2 years likely better than Luongo ), Tanev, Lack ( BRISEBOIS ) Hamhuis, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Grenier, Hutton, Cassels. Not bad considering where we drafted from. He wasn't liked in many circles because frankly he didn't suffer fools very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 hour ago, WonderTwinPowers said: I like how you don't acknowledge the fact that his players and moves are right now keeping this team competitve, while also ushering in a massive changing of the guard. Do you honestly believe Detroit and Chicago never had bad draft years? Chicago's style of recycling non core players has kept them competitive and Detroit's excellent scouting and development have helped them, but both these teams have flopped in their history of drafting too, not only Mike Gillis who excelled in finding talent outside of the draft, but why acknowledge that either right? I bet you though AV was a horrible coach too. I was very much for Gillis's firing. But am even on record just a page or so ago suggesting he was actually doing a good job the year leading up to his fire. And yes he was of course very effective in the years, and in particular the summer of, our 2010 / 11 finals year. But he lost his plan in 2011/12 & 2012/13. I cannot say what was on his mind? I also cannot blame him for jettisoning Ehrhoff. I would not have offered a $40 mill contract either. But he did not even get his feet wet bringing in another guy to offer the puck savvy, command and skill on the blue line. We did not replace Samuelson. We scoffed at offering Torres $4 mill. Then spent nearly $15 mill on Booth. We were unsuccessful, replacing Malhotra. The speed and size of Raffi/Manny/Hansen was one of the critical components other teams could not handle. It got down to the Twins, at 187 labs each, taking the match ups against the Wests huge line ups in the months up to his firing. No matter what side of each debate you were on; the team got worse in the immediate aftermath of the departures of Schneids, Hodgson & Lou. And many of the fails had big contracts that required ownership buy out guys ( Booth, Ballard, AV, Gillis himself, the portion of Lou"s salary). So a tremendous amount of decisions went pear shaped. As much as his last few years of drafts went (realm very) well! His first three combined with 2 years worth of negligible draft returns from Nonis also meant we should have been in recovery mode much earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 18 hours ago, hobart16 said: A quick note on development and Mike's age. Mike did not play any real minor or junior hockey (around here that would be Syracuse Nationals or Syracuse Stars) and instead played for his local high school team, which is a much lower standard. His Dad often says he should have put him into a more competitive environment sooner, so he is a late bloomer in part because he wasn't even playing AAA hockey until late. So his 23 is more like others' 21. He has plenty more upside. If he keeps developing his offense like this, he will find a spot in the big show. UticaHockey is right on, it looked like the Mike Z show out there tonight. Face-offs, forecheck, back check, passing, shooting, PP, PK. The puck was on his stick all the time. He actually had an open net to shoot on for his hat trick tonight in the third period but somebody just stuck a stick in the way and miraculously deflected the shot over the net. I know some Canucks admin people were in town tonight for the game (AHL All Star game is in Syracuse), but I didn't see Willy, Benning or Trevor. Hope they and Travis, who was double shifting Z tonight, are calling those guys right now. Z just flew by the Amerks D man for that short handed goal. That Shinkaruk, Z, Gaunce line was scary good. Give Gaunce credit for a sweet assist on Z's second goal. 18 hours ago, UticaHockey said: I have to admit that I am biased about Mike Zalewski being a local kid. I saw him win the New York State High School Championship at the Aud. I watched his sister dominant the boys in youth hockey and more than hold her own in high school. But just because I'm proud to see a local kid do great I'm not making it up when I say that Mike Z has the potential to be a very good NHL player. I Truly believe he is the best player on the team and will only get better as he's continues to develop. Great updates, guys. Hope Z can keep it up. Getting energized from his call-up and having a couple of great games back in Utica is very good. But we know hard part is keeping up the intensity on a consistent basis. I take the point about starting his development late. My earlier comment was based on developmental averages. If Z. really is an outlier and can continue rapid improvement for another season after this one, that should make him a solid NHL player for sure -- maybe a 3rd liner. But I still think the likeliest ceiling is 4C at the NHL level. He is still a really nice surprise. I hope he can help Utica make the playoffs and make a playoff run this year and he should be able to help the Canucks next year. I would see him as an upgrade over Cracknell at 4C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 He's like a Hansen cept he's a center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 4 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: As much as his last few years of drafts went (realm very) well! His first three combined with 2 years worth of negligible draft returns from Nonis also meant we should have been in recovery mode much earlier. His first two years any way were impacted by the leagues announcment that it intended to make the game more skilled. ie smaller players would be in vogue. Turned out they were BS'ing Schroder and to some degree Hodgson were the result for Vcr picks. Although Hodgson and Co. did kind of do it to themselves too. Once it became apprent that the league was going to stick with the status quo he chnaged his drafting philosophy and went big with his picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 22 hours ago, Canucks Prophet said: That's not saying much, considering we've only had 11 GMs so far. He doesn't come close to the intelligence and brilliance of Pat Quinn. Teams like Detroit and Chicago prove that you can stay competitive while using and developing young players. That's how you remain competitive for years, instead of being a one-and-done team. Well Grasshopper I can tell you 'in the old days' those two, Hawks and Wings, were the laughing stock of the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Always thought he could compete for the 4th line job. But now we may have a solid 3rd liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 On 2016-02-01 at 11:31 AM, Boudrias said: and franWell Grasshopper I can tell you 'in the old days' those two, Hawks and Wings, were the laughing stock of the NHL. In the case of Chi look at the high picks they had.....which tells you how bad they were at one time. I see Detroit after some lucky drafting in the later rounds are now fast tracking Larkin....so much for development and frankly after Datysuk and Zettersburg hang them up not exactly over flowing with great talent. The team to watch the next couple of years is Florida and I've been saying that for quite a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Prophet Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 On February 1, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Boudrias said: Well Grasshopper I can tell you 'in the old days' those two, Hawks and Wings, were the laughing stock of the NHL. I never said those franchises were always dominant. I'm saying that they're using the draft to build on their future, a constant recycling of necessary pieces. 3 hours ago, Fred65 said: In the case of Chi look at the high picks they had.....which tells you how bad they were at one time. I see Detroit after some lucky drafting in the later rounds are now fast tracking Larkin....so much for development and frankly after Datysuk and Zettersburg hang them up not exactly over flowing with great talent. The team to watch the next couple of years is Florida and I've been saying that for quite a while It's not "lucky drafting", it's good drafting and scouting. Not to mention they have a great development system going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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