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Is there a logjam of depth that's big enough which could slow development/no improvement?


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#1 "Bull" Horvat

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 11:13 AM

May be a blunt post you'll be reading but I've been struggling to realize where Dalpe & Schroeder will eventually play next season. Other than the fact they are both RFAs this summer, I just can't see where all these pieces will fit. Providing the confidence that the Canucks will want to re-sign Santorelli this summer, here's how I'm looking at this. You got a "so-called" first line in Daniel - Henrik - Santorelli, Burrows - Kesler - (costly FA winger), Higgins - Matthias - Kassian, Sestito - Richardson - Hansen: all as your ideal line up with most NHL experience.

You then have the likes of Jordan Schroeder, Zac Dalpe, Bo Horvat.

 

In the AHL (in my proposed lines (around mid-season time frame of next season))

 

Shinkaruk - O'Reilly - Grenier
Stuart - Lain - Ferreiro
Fox - Gaunce - Jensen
Archibald - Cassels - Welsh

You still have the likes of: Ludwig Blomstrand, Alexandre Mallet, newly signed college player Mike Zalewski... Jeff Costello who was acquired from Ottawa for Patrick Mullen - who's just about to finish his 4th season at Notre Dame...

Where do you send/place all these players?
Of course, moving Kesler could shake things up as well but not too crazily with the amount of centers we've got in this organization... "Now I wrote (costly FA winger)" because that's been the rumored proposed concept of trying to persuade Kesler to "stick around", just an fyi. Yeah, of course, we always have the ECHL .. wow-wee. Yay. But that only applies to players like Mallet & Blomstrand, maybe Costello from the way I see the projected, ideal roster to be. Would Schroeder's rights, be moved before FA? Perhaps. Where will Dalpe fit? 13th forward? Will/Could Horvat's exclusion from the big club next season trickle down and effect players like Cassels/Lain? I'm struggling to see how any of this will help the development of those that get sent down to the ECHL. More like injury call-ups to me. I'm not sure if I'm getting my concern out there and if so I'm sorry I wasted perhaps that one minute of your life and second minute of possibly responding to this post. My apologies :/
 


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#2 Warhippy

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 11:23 AM

I had this thought as well in regards to our now seeming glut at center for our prospects.

It turns out no. There will be little to no logjam and here is why.

Horvat, Gaunce and Shinkaruk, while all being natural centers have all played very well on the wing previously. As well when you factor in the ages of those three as well as Cassels. They will be either entering the NHL, AHL or staying in the CHL at different times respectively.

Now to defense. We have the same awesome problem. The ages of the players available make them candidates to move up into the AHL, or NHL or stay in the CHL at different times.

THIS, is or at least was the Detroit model people used to want to emulate. This is the model Chicago and Anaheim have right now (only 2-3 years ahead due to better draft positioning and extra picks)

We will have a revolving door of prospects and rookies over the next 3 to 4 years provided we keep all of our picks, gain more picks; draft wisely and don't trade any of them.

If anything currently the only true issue in terms of logjam we have is near redundant 2 way forwards. We don't have those true game breaking forwards, nor those awesome puck moving or crease clearing defencemen. We have solid players but not specific game breakers of specific player-types.

But that could very easily change in the next 2 seasons worth of drafting. I firmly believe we are in for a top 10 pick this year, and (sadly) with luck the same issues, inconsistencies and poor judgement as well as snake bitten players will allow us a very high pick next year after we shed some of our core players this year.

A logjam looks like a possibility, but is in no way a detriment in terms of development in my opinion
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CIaude Giroux Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:15 PM


He's out for 6 months (which will hinder his development) and he really needs that development. There's already worries that he won't translate to the NHL and he'll end up a huge ass bust.

 

 


#3 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 11:25 AM

With the way we're struggling to put pucks in the net. I would not be surprised to see Fox, Shinkaruk or Grenier make the team.

 

I'd love to see a line of Burrows Gaunce and Grenier. Size, and Skill!


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#4 L. Stanley

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 11:27 AM

horvat  is a C

shink has played both prefers wing

gaunce plays both prefers C but has done equally well at both

Cassels is a C time will tell

 

no problem

 

we need a 1C prospect though and a 1st line wing prospect


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#5 PlayStation

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 11:42 AM

Yeah I've thought about this many times. We don't have room for rookies to really come into.

We had Henrik, Kesler, Hodgson... Pittsburgh had Crosby, Malkin, Staal, both the third liners wanted out (Hodgson SUPPOSEDLY) to get a bigger role. Plus we have Matthias, and Richardson.

But the thing with us is we had so many young centers, and guys like Schroeder are already struggling to find a spot and even showcase what he has, its not going to be any different next year.
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#6 theminister

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 11:53 AM

I think it's good.

Competition for spots at all levels should be a driving factor for all if these players to dedicate themselves this offseason. If we can see the numbers so can they.

There also is the strong possibility of us investigating a 2for1 or 3for1 deal at some point before camp, possibly at the draft. A couple of players like Dalpe, Schroeder, Sestito, etc could be moved for or with draft picks to move up certain spots.
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#7 mrhopeless

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 11:56 AM

Welsh? His days as a Canuck are over.
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#8 HunterHorvatBure

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:18 PM

I had this thought as well in regards to our now seeming glut at center for our prospects.It turns out no. There will be little to no logjam and here is why.Horvat, Gaunce and Shinkaruk, while all being natural centers have all played very well on the wing previously. As well when you factor in the ages of those three as well as Cassels. They will be either entering the NHL, AHL or staying in the CHL at different times respectively.Now to defense. We have the same awesome problem. The ages of the players available make them candidates to move up into the AHL, or NHL or stay in the CHL at different times.THIS, is or at least was the Detroit model people used to want to emulate. This is the model Chicago and Anaheim have right now (only 2-3 years ahead due to better draft positioning and extra picks)We will have a revolving door of prospects and rookies over the next 3 to 4 years provided we keep all of our picks, gain more picks; draft wisely and don't trade any of them.If anything currently the only true issue in terms of logjam we have is near redundant 2 way forwards. We don't have those true game breaking forwards, nor those awesome puck moving or crease clearing defencemen. We have solid players but not specific game breakers of specific player-types.But that could very easily change in the next 2 seasons worth of drafting. I firmly believe we are in for a top 10 pick this year, and (sadly) with luck the same issues, inconsistencies and poor judgement as well as snake bitten players will allow us a very high pick next year after we shed some of our core players this year.A logjam looks like a possibility, but is in no way a detriment in terms of development in my opinion


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#9 babych

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:43 PM

I wish that our problem was too much depth...

 

But seriously, competition is good.


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QUOTE
(shiznak@Jun 17 2008, 08:00 PM)
Kesler was lucky to score 20 this year since the injury to Morrison allowed him to do so.

I doubt Kesler would ever break 15 goals in his career again.

#10 Derp...

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:45 PM

Ferrerio and Welsh will be gone probably. Cassels is too young for the AHL, he doesn't turn 20 until May of 2015.

 

Whoever doesn't make the comets will be pushed to the kwings or traded. 

 

Not really worried at all becuase the best players will be the ones who get opportunities.

 

Highly doubt Jensen will be on the third line of the Comets.

 

Highly doubt Santo will be on the Sedins line.

 

I imagine we will get rid of a couple pieces to make room for the young guys.


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#11 Lulover88

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:48 PM

hunter and bo WILL be on this team to start the season ..   the canucks success depends on it .. I'm sure they are looking at it as a huge piece of their puzzle ..   these guys failing is not an option..


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#12 BanTSN

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 01:15 PM

We must be not used to prospect pools as Canucks fans if we think our current one presents a 'logjam'.

Really, barely anyone in it has the potential for decent NHL future.


Also, where are the defensemen? Most contenders have a logjam of top prospects in that position and we have Corrado.
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#13 Pickly

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 01:29 PM

hunter and bo WILL be on this team to start the season ..   the canucks success depends on it .. I'm sure they are looking at it as a huge piece of their puzzle ..   these guys failing is not an option..


Get real. Their success depends on it? They're kids for gods sake. Shinkaruk is coming off season ending hip surgery and by the time training camp comes around he will have missed a significant amount of time. Months. To automatically assume he will be on the Canucks opening day roster is a stretch. He may make it there's no doubt he'll have a good shot but the Canucks brass isn't going to rush him into a full time job just because the team had troubles scoring this season. I would rather see him get some time in the A to re-adjust to playing games first and then see where he's at after a little while. Remember the kids not very big either and putting up significant numbers in the W doesn't mean it's going to suddenly translate to the pro game. It may take some time. Horvat has a good chance a making the team but to think he's for sure going to step in and play a big role isn't out of reach but it may take time for him as well.
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#14 honey badger36

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 01:42 PM

Sedin Sedin Jensen
Hunter Stasny? Kesler
Matthias Boho Burr
Higg Lain\Gaunce\Cassels Hansen

Sick depth solid scoring up and down the lineup I don't see a problem.
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#15 nuck nit

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 02:13 PM

Logjam slowing development.
Good one.
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#16 5nothincanucksohno

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 02:18 PM

Good mix of age and youth, skill and size, plus good young players pushing from AHL level (allows young guys to develop properly).

 

NHL:

                    Daniel - Henrik - Jensen

(FA Winger - Vanek) - Kesler - Kassian

                    Higgins - Matthias - Santorelli

                    Grenier - Richardson - Hansen

 

                          Hamhuies - Tanev

                          Bieksa - Stanton

                          Edler - Corrado

 

Extra: Sestito, etc

Potential Trade: Booth, Burrows (NTC/NMC), Garrison (NTC/NMC)...Burr or Garrison could potentially stay for someone else but some of the vets need to be moved while they have value. Given how Booth has played, I think he has value even if just for a 5th round pick.

 

AHL:

 

Shinkaruk - O'Reilly/Horvat - Schroeder
Stuart - Lain - Ferreiro
Fox - Gaunce - Jensen
Archibald - Cassels - Welsh

 

 


Edited by 5nothincanucksohno, 16 March 2014 - 02:32 PM.

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#17 skyfall

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:02 PM

When there's a logjam trades can be made to clear redundancy and get value back. Good teams have always been trading away good players for high value players, prospects and/or picks. A good GM works ahead of the curve. For some reason fans of Canadian teams are too loyal to their own players even though objectively many are expendable.
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#18 Jiggs50

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:32 PM

There's a logjam on defence if anything. If booth is bought out and sestito becomes a part timer we'll be alright.

Edited by Jiggs50, 16 March 2014 - 03:33 PM.

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#19 Sedins23

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:37 PM

Not even kidding. I stopped reading when you said O`Reilly will be centering our first line in the AHL.  :lol:  


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#20 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:52 PM

horvat  is a C

shink has played both prefers wing

gaunce plays both prefers C but has done equally well at both

Cassels is a C time will tell

 

no problem

 

we need a 1C prospect though and a 1st line wing prospect

You are vastly underestimating the ceiling of Horvat, as does the majority of CDC. He is an extremely intelligent hockey player, meaning he will have no problems transitioning and finding his potential barring injuries. He could become a first line center, with his playmaking ability.


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#21 N7Nucks

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 07:37 PM

hunter and bo WILL be on this team to start the season ..   the canucks success depends on it .. I'm sure they are looking at it as a huge piece of their puzzle ..   these guys failing is not an option..

Horvat, maybe. Shink, doubt it. Shinkaruk's injury has to have set him back. Give him a year in the A, if he 's eligible. Horvat depends on how he performs in training camp. He has one more year of Junior? Might just go back and dominate again, although it probably won't help much with development.
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#22 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 07:52 PM

I think there is. Schroeder, Dalpe need to play in the NHL next year. I don't see how Jensen could not make the team next year. Archibald looks like he will make the 4th line and maybe even Lain and Grenier.

Then there's Horvat who imo won't benefit from playing another year in jr and can't play in the AHL.

Fox, Gaunce, Shinkaruk will most likely be in the AHL.

We need to get rid of Hansen, etc, because we have young guys who can do the same things they do but also have more skill

I think our bottom 6 might look something like

Matthias-Horvat-Schroeder
Richardson-Santorelli-Archibald

Lain
Grenier

One of Dalpe or Schroeder probably gets traded.
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#23 Bo Hunter Booth

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 12:43 AM

Not even kidding. I stopped reading when you said O`Reilly will be centering our first line in the AHL.  :lol:  

Cal O'Reilly? He plays for the Comets.


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#24 Lenny Jones

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

Cal O'Reilly? He plays for the Comets.

He's 4th in points, just to add to this.
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#25 Dogbyte

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:04 AM

MG loves filling the roster full of garbage.
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#26 Blueberries

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:18 AM

Horvat cant play in the AHL, if he gets sent down he'll go back to London and play in the OHL.

Most likely Nucks go with:

 

Sedins-Jensen

Higgins-(C acquired from Kes trade)-Burr

Matthais-Horvat-Kassian/Hansen

Sestito-Richardson-Kassian/Hansen

 

Trade away Schroeder,Dalpe, and more not needed players. Sign Santo if needed.

 

With Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Grenier, Fox in minors ready to go.


Edited by Blueberries, 17 March 2014 - 09:19 AM.

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#27 B00MER

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:25 AM

I hope we ice a team full of rookies. Free agency isn't the way to go for a quick fix. Overpaid, term and NTC is a recipe for disaster.
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