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Enter: Lack, Exit: Luongo


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#1 nux4lyfe

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 10:56 PM

(Enter: Lack, Exit: Luongo) Kinda stole that from the 'Makaveli' album. :P

 

I know many people here are not big fans of Botch, But I thought this article was interesting....

 

As much as Lu 'maybe' wanted out, I do believe that sometime down the line he will realize and miss many of the 'perks' Vancouver brought, okay maybe not perks but playing for a hockey mad city compared to Florida is a night and day comparison.

 

After all, He had his first ever playoff experience with Vancouver, won a gold medal in this city and came a game away from winning the cup, All I'm trying to say is that you always remember your 'first's'. Anyways, I think Botch has a few solid points here....
 

 

 

SUNRISE, Fla. — The BB&T Center is a lonely place.

It jets out from a carpet of palm trees and freeways. There is no skyline for miles. The only stores are in an outlet mall. There are no condos. There are few homes and few people. Even on game days.

Regularly awash in sunshine, this is the antithesis of Rogers Arena. And now, this is where Roberto Luongo calls home.

While ripping Luongo last week for daring to tweet about the former teammates he will play for the first time Sunday, Don Cherry called this paradise.

It is. It is also the NHL’s version of Siberia.

This is the last weekend Luongo will be news. He is at the centre of the hockey media universe one last day. Soon, the Canadian reporters will go home, and the Florida Panthers will submerge into irrelevancy again, until they visit the Canucks once next year.

Even then, people may not care given how fast the Canucks are sliding into oblivion.

Luongo was asked if he will miss all of this, the attention both good and bad which helped make him one of the most-talked about athletes in Vancouver. Maybe ever.

“Is that a trick question?” he said, his grin as wide as his crease.

“Every market is different. Sometimes you need that pressure to get you going. But I put pressure on myself to perform no matter what market I’m in.

“I try not to take (what goes on on the outside) with a grain of salt and I try to laugh about it.”

Unlike many players who get traded, Luongo said he is not looking for vengeance today. He is looking to write the last line on the last chapter of his Canucks career.

“It was a great run. But I’m looking to move on now, and I think (this game) will put great closure on it.”

WHAT HAPPENED?

This weekend started with Marty Brodeur marvelling at how the Canucks managed to go from two top ten goalies to none in ten months.

It’s something that, for now, threatens to haunt this franchise.

How did it happen?

It’s become clear that after the Canucks traded Cory Schneider at last year’s NHL Entry draft, Luongo still wanted out.

The issue was even broached at the same draft the Canucks traded Schneider. There, Florida GM Dale Tallon again told the Canucks the Panthers could be interested in Luongo.

The Canucks didn’t take it seriously. In this long cat-and-mouse game Tallon was playing, he had told the Canucks he could be interested in Luongo a couple of dozen times. It never went anywhere. And it didn’t at the draft.

But things changed when the Panthers’ new ownership was finalized in September. They had money and they were keen on acquiring someone who could be the face of the franchise. Someone like Luongo.

The Canucks had started the season believing Luongo would finish it with them. But that’s as far forward as they were looking.

That he was benched for the Heritage Classic will always be seen as the final straw in his relationship with the Canucks, and the trigger which got him traded.

If Luongo had played, would history have changed?

“It’s tough to say,” Luongo said. “It had something to do with it. It put the wheels in motion.

“I couldn’t get a trade done for a year and a half, so I don’t know how it happened in two days.

“Definitely something weird was going on there when I got back from the Olympics.”

What was weird was the confidence the Canucks were showing in Eddie Lack. It’s believed that the coaching staff, led by goalie coach Rollie Melanson, determined Lack would be the better option for the post-Olympics stretch because of the way Luongo struggled before going to Russia.

So Lack started three straight games. The third was the Heritage game.

It was at that point, Luongo’s agent Pat Brisson contacted GM Mike Gillis, who was loathe to start shopping Luongo because he was up to his ears considering Ryan Kesler options two days before the trade deadline.

It was Brisson who contacted Tallon again, but it was Michael Santos and Laurence Gilman who spent hours, beginning the night after the Heritage Classic, hammering out what turned out to be a complex deal.

IT'S LACK'S TEAM NOW, FOR BETTER OR WORSE

It’s Friday, and something of a marquee game.

Cory Schneider and the Devils are in Sunrise to take on his old running mate.

A group of four teens are outside trying to sell centre ice tickets. They’re asking $5 for each. There are no takers.

Yes, this is a different world. Things will never be the same.

What will Luongo miss about Vancouver?

“There were a lot of ups, and there were some downs, and they were well documented,” Luongo said.

“I will miss a lot of things. My teammates, first and foremost. We spend that many years with a core group of guys, you form some good bonds. That’s the first thing that comes to mind.

“Me and my family took a liking to the city. It is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Those are things you remember for a lifetime.”

He has left behind a team that looks like a disaster, spiralling out of control.

“I don’t know (what happened),” Luongo said. “I’ve been trying to figure it out for a long time.

“We were playing really good in December. But guys started falling down and there was a lot of stuff happening around the team.

“You can’t put your finger on it. But it’s tough to see something like that. Especially with the fact we have always been battling for the top of the standings.

“Maybe I shouldn’t say we anymore.”

No, this is Lack’s team now, for better or worse, ready or not.

He will start against Luongo Sunday. After giving up 18 goals in five games, there are legitimate questions about whether the 26-year-old rookie is ready for the responsibility that comes with being a No. 1 goalie.

When Luongo was traded, Lack was in the top five in both save percentage and goals against average for goalies who had played at least 20 games. Now, he’s out of the 20 in save percentage, and just barely still in the top 20 for goals against average.

He seemed to show signs of stressing when he got into it with a fan on Twitter after the Canucks lost in Washington on Friday.

Lack tweeted: “Maybe u should support your team instead of spreading negative s--- around.”

He was asked yesterday what it’s been like being the starter.

“It’s way harder being Batman than Robin, right?” Lack said. “It’s a lot of games. I’m trying to prepare myself as much as possible for every game.

“I try to stay positive. The only game I was really not satisfied with is the Islanders game.”

Even if Lack has struggled, head coach John Tortorella hasn’t wavered, and continues to hand him the ball to run with.

“It’s easier when you have a coach that believes in you,” Lack said. “Now I have to show that I’m worth it.”

Don’t worry, only the future stability of the franchise is on the line.

 

 


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#2 DeNiro

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:01 PM

there was a lot of stuff happening around the team.


If that doesn't hint that there is problems in the locker room, I don't what does.

My guess is it involves Kesler. I think that's why we'll see him shipped out this summer.

Could even be the reason we traded Schneider and drafted Horvat. Maybe management has been planning for this.
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#3 Caboose

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:06 PM

If that doesn't hint that there is problems in the locker room, I don't what does.

My guess is it involves Kesler. I think that's why we'll see him shipped out this summer.

Could even be the reason we traded Schneider and drafted Horvat. Maybe management has been planning for this.

 

I don't think trading Schneider was anything more than a miscalculation on Mike Gillis' part.

 

As good as Bo Horvat will be, Schneider is going to be a starter for the next 10 years, and will soon be counted among the league's elite goaltenders.

 

Gillis should have resigned himself to retaining salary in a Luongo trade last year rather than going from two of the top goalies in the league to an unproven, but promising tandem.


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#4 Mr.DirtyDangles

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:14 PM

Great read Nux

 

Maybe when Lou writes and autobiography we will really know what went down ?  I will miss Lou but if this is what he wanted then so be it.  Eddie shows so much promise that it is making it a little easier to take.   Like many here I am so happy this  sh..tacane is happening this fast. The faster we amputate the dead appendages the less time we will spend next to EDM and CGY in the basement.

 

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#5 DeNiro

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:19 PM

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I don't think trading Schneider was anything more than a miscalculation on Mike Gillis' part.
 
As good as Bo Horvat will be, Schneider is going to be a starter for the next 10 years, and will soon be counted among the league's elite goaltenders.
 
Gillis should have resigned himself to retaining salary in a Luongo trade last year rather than going from two of the top goalies in the league to an unproven, but promising tandem.


10 years? He's 28 you know. Could be as little as 6 or 7.

Horvat's career is just about to begin.

At this point a player like Horvat is needed more than a player like Schneider IMO.

Edited by DeNiro, 16 March 2014 - 11:19 PM.

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#6 Caboose

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:24 PM

10 years? He's 28 you know. Could be as little as 6 or 7.

Horvat's career is just about to begin.

At this point a layer like Horvat is needed more than a player like Schneider IMO.

 

Patrick Roy - 37

Martin Brodeur - 41

Ed Belfour - 40

 

List goes on.

 

Eddie Lack is 26, a mere 2 years younger than Schneider, and its not arguable who the better goaltender is.

 

Its a lot harder to draft and develop a starting goalie than it is a top 6 forward.


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#7 Phil_314

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:35 PM

I think it's good that he gets the chance to be the main man. Even though it must've been tough to be given the reins so suddenly it's not like he's looked out of place either, and I'd take that as a promising sign since if he can do okay now and be mentally prepared to face adversity in the future, he can really become a stud for us down the road.
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#8 playboi19

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:43 PM

 

Patrick Roy - 37

Martin Brodeur - 41

Ed Belfour - 40

 

List goes on.

 

Eddie Lack is 26, a mere 2 years younger than Schneider, and its not arguable who the better goaltender is.

 

Its a lot harder to draft and develop a starting goalie than it is a top 6 forward.

The Leafs have plenty of experience with this...Tuuuuuuuuukaaaaa.


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#9 Caboose

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 12:02 AM

The Leafs have plenty of experience with this...Tuuuuuuuuukaaaaa.


Exactly

I would know never to trade away a young starter.
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#10 DeNiro

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 12:20 AM

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Patrick Roy - 37
Martin Brodeur - 41
Ed Belfour - 40
 
List goes on.
 
Eddie Lack is 26, a mere 2 years younger than Schneider, and its not arguable who the better goaltender is.
 
Its a lot harder to draft and develop a starting goalie than it is a top 6 forward.


For one thing those are some of the best goalies of all time. Hall of famers.

Schneider will not likely be among them. If he was, he would be single handedly carrying the Devils into the playoffs, which he is not. He's splitting the net with Brodeur. Great goalie, but fans really build him up too much. You would think we've never drafted a starter before...

Lack was top 5 in both GAA and SV% before the Islanders game. He has shown he can be among the top goalies. He has also had a much worse team offensively in front of him than Schneider, and done very well for a rookie without a veteran to guide him.

We've recently acquired 3 goalies that have the potential to be starters. And based on the goalie market the last couple years, I would say it's not nearly as hard to acquire a goalie as it is to acquire top end offensive talent.
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#11 terrible.dee

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 01:14 AM

I, for one, am thrilled Luongo has moved on. He hasn't been a top goalie for years now, he's coasting on his reputation and a high media profile. I think he seemed like a nice guy, and I wish him all the best, but we needed to move on.

 

I am also happy with what we got for Schnieder. A top 2-way center prospect to build the next generation around is just what we need. There's no guarantee Horvat will turn out to be a Kessler, but GM's have to take a chance or nothing gets done (See Dave "No-nutts" Nonis") The Sedin deal could have blown up in the Burke's face, but he had the guts to put his reputation on the line, and after years of development, we ended up with the first Art Ross winners in Canucks history.

 

Everyone on this board makes fun of Gillis and his "Bold moves" (or lack there of) Schneider for Horvat was a bold move, and it's one I applaud Gillis for. It's the type of move that will get this ship turned around. I hope he does something similar with Kessler, for a top offensive center prospect. (Kess and Edler to Montreal for Galchenyuk and Tinordi?)

 

At any rate, I have faith in Eddie Lack, the kid has Star power. That intangible quality that lets you know he's going to be someone, significant.

 

All things considered, I love how our goaltending drama has turned out, we have the guy I want between the pipes, the fading superstar and his suffocating contract have been jettisoned and the top asset we developed has been traded to strengthen a more important position.

 

I'm even loving the current slide we are on, Jenssen is getting a chance to prove himself and is locking up a slot for next year and Kassian is showing what none of us expected, the guy has playmaking abilities! Now If Jordan Shroeder would just turn into Cliff Ronning in the next 12 games or so everything will be peachy.


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#12 canuktravella

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 01:18 AM

Lack is def gonna be better than the ginger. He was garbage last yr in playoffs not sure why bobby luo didnt start the playoff series sharks destroyed schneider.
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#13 Salmon Arm Canuck

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:02 AM

 

I don't think trading Schneider was anything more than a miscalculation on Mike Gillis' part.

 

As good as Bo Horvat will be, Schneider is going to be a starter for the next 10 years, and will soon be counted among the league's elite goaltenders.

 

Gillis should have resigned himself to retaining salary in a Luongo trade last year rather than going from two of the top goalies in the league to an unproven, but promising tandem.

The only miscalculation on the part of Gillis was not getting rid of Schneider but not realizing how much a specific clause in Luongo's NTC would affect his interest by other clubs. Gillis could NOT trade Luongo last year because of this clause. This clause is courtesy of Capgeek.com:

 

Full NTC (Exception 1: Player can supply five-team trade list following final game of 2013-14, valid through July 15, 2014; Exception 2: If player does not submit trade list as documented in Exception 1, team can request a five-team trade list following final game of 2017-18 season, valid through Sept. 1, 2018. If player submitted a trade list in 2014 and was not moved, team loses right to request trade list in 2018.)

 

No GM in the league, besides the Panther's Tallon, would accept taking on Lu's contract knowing potentially the fact that his family lives in South Florida and that he could give a list of teams to be traded to following only one year.

 

Because of this clause and wanting some harmony in the dressing room, Canuck management decided to trade Schnieder, a plan that was Plan A all along considering the commitment it originally made to Luongo.

 

Albeit you are correct that the current tandem is unproven but promising, I have a feeling we'll have another goaltending controversy of the positive nature that Luongo and Schnieder started to become roughly three years ago---two quality goalies in Lack and Markstrom tutored and honed by Rollie making it one of the, if not the, best tandums in the game. 


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#14 debluvscanucks

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:26 AM

1836968_10152287021677145_239895139_o.jp

 

Always a sad thing for me, losing players who've been here a long time and been an integral part of the franchise.  I'll always be in Lu's corner but what a perfect setting (s/o win) for Eddie to take the helm and put his brand on this team.  He's handled it very well...an awkward situation...to realize your dream but at the expense of a friend.  Kind of tough and he's been a true champ in how he's responded to this situation.

 

A difficult situation to have to grab the reins and go in a full gallop like this.  And, with the team floundering...he's taken charge in a less than ideal state of affairs.   But his calm demeanor and composure are impressive...he'll be fine.

 

He didn't have much time as a back up, let alone becoming a starter.  Been a flurry and I just know he's going to shine.  And Lu is home, so although I feel so much sadness I am truly happy for him and wish him nothing but the best.


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#15 Monty

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:32 AM

 
Patrick Roy - 37
Martin Brodeur - 41
Ed Belfour - 40
 
List goes on.
 
Eddie Lack is 26, a mere 2 years younger than Schneider, and its not arguable who the better goaltender is.
 
Its a lot harder to draft and develop a starting goalie than it is a top 6 forward.


DeNiro already answered this perfectly, but I'll expand on this a little further. Two of the goalies you mentioned, Brodeur and Belfour, were (and in Brodeur's case, still is) no longer considered ELITE goaltenders later in their careers. Brodeur hasn't put up elite numbers since 2010. As for Roy, he retired at his peak, before a decline in his numbers. Unless Schneider turns into the freak of nature that was Hasek and can put up insane numbers well into his 40s,
expect Schneider to begin his decline the same time as every other goalie (see Luongo).
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#16 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:36 AM

I would know never to trade away a young starter.

Markstrom?

He was very recently considered the best goaltending prospect in the league.



If Luongo is referring to Kesler as part of the stuff happening around the team, that should come as no surprise. He 'have' to trade him now, so there's going to be stories circling about now alluvasudden he's a cancer etc. Even though he's been totally fine up to this season. It's all part of the process. I just hope we don't 'have' to trade him for crap prospects, crap picks or crap contracts. But I have a feeling we will.
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#17 SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:43 AM

Patrick Roy - 37
Martin Brodeur - 41
Ed Belfour - 40
 
List goes on.
 
Eddie Lack is 26, a mere 2 years younger than Schneider, and its not arguable who the better goaltender is.
 
Its a lot harder to draft and develop a starting goalie than it is a top 6 forward.


There's already been a couple replies to this that make some good points but I'd still like to expand even further.

While Schneider (at 28) is probably better than Lack (at 26) right now--and that might even be "arguable" since they have nearly identical numbers for 2013-14 (in the goalie stats that are true indicators of individual and not team performance)--he is also two years older and more developed.

It will be more informative to compare Lack's performance when he's 28 to where Schneider is right now. We'll have to wait for that but I honestly believe that Lack could end up having the better numbers.

And yes, it's hard to acquire and develop a young starting goaltender. Thankfully, this is something the Canucks have some experience with (and have shown some pretty good results). Goalie development looks to be one the this organization's strengths and the Canucks have two or three good young goaltenders to work with.

Lack already looks to be a legitimate NHL starter. How good he'll become is the question. Will he be an average, capable starter or will he be something more special? I think we've seen some flashes of a potential elite starter. And I think we've seen enough from Lack to believe that he has a chance to potentially outshine Schneider (and possibly even Luongo) by the end of his professional career.

Then, there's Markstrom, who has a better overall package of physical gifts and raw ability than Lack (and Schneider). The question is whether or not the Canucks can turn things around and get his development back on track. There's definitely time since Jake is two years younger than Eddie Lack (and four years younger than Schneider).

Nearly forgotten in this mix are Utica's Joacim Eriksson and Joe Cannata, who are both still years away but who both have considerable potential to emerge from the development pipeline in the future as potential NHL starters.

Personally, I think the Canucks are in excellent shape in net, especially for a team that is re-tooling the lineup and trying to get younger. Certainly, if this current core was actually ready to contend for a Cup right now, you'd have wanted to see the team retain Luongo or Schneider, but with them looking forward (as Gillis has stated) to the next 3-5 years, it's a great time to start building toward having a new "star tandem" in the Canucks' net.

Looking forward three to five seasons, Luongo would be declining even further (and approaching his retirement) and Schneider would be looking to score his big career payout from free agency (and possibly even on his second UFA deal).

Neither scenario fits really well with where this team is going.

And keeping Schneider in Vancouver would not have prevented the collapse of this season and the resulting transition toward a re-tooling (which could possibly become a rebuilding) and a new, longer-term overall team strategy.

Schneider was the right guy for a 2-3 year Stanley Cup window using the current core and roster. He's not the right guy (due to his contract/career stage and future salary expectations) for a plan that includes roster/core turnover, getting younger, and looking ahead 3-5 years (or longer) before really competing again for the Stanley Cup.

Eddie Lack (with the other young goalies in the system) fits this bill much better.

Now there's no denying that this season was a little bit too early to anoint Lack as an NHL starter, especially without a veteran backup as a safety net, but that's the kind of luxury that a disappointing season and an overall re-tooling allows. Sure, we're still mathematically in the playoff race (and things look even a little better today following a Dallas loss), but we're still a longshot to make the postseason (and an even bigger longshot to make any noise if we somehow miraculously sneak in).

So the Canucks don't really lose much by playing a rookie starter with a prospect backup for the last dozen games of 2013-14. Lack seems to be settling down and getting back on track after having a pretty significant weight put onto his young shoulders. By season's end, he should be able to demonstrate that he has the goods to shoulder this responsibility.

While I definitely don't buy into the theory that the events surrounding the turnover in the Canucks' goaltending have followed any kind of "master plan" put forth by Mike Gillis (it's more likely that he's lucked his way through some seriously botched decision making), I do believe that the Canucks have an excellent chance of finding themselves in a great situation in net in a couple years (and possibly even by next season).

I'm so done with bemoaning how we arrived at this situation. Whatever people feel about what went on with Schneider and Luongo, they should try to set that aside for a minute and take a good honest look at the wealth of young talent and potential we currently have in net. There's still a lot of work remaining to be done before this team gets back to contention but goaltending is one area where the re-tooling of the Vancouver Canucks appears to be right on track.

Believe in Eddie Lack. He's gonna be a beauty.
  

Exactly

I would know never to trade away a young starter.


Don't worry, Eddie Lack isn't going anywhere (at least until Markstrom turns into a Vezina candidate and ignites Vancouver's next "goaltender controversy"). ;)
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#18 debluvscanucks

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:05 AM

As for the controversial, "team" related stuff.  I, personally, wish that the changes being made would indicate a fresh start and that we can stop with this crap in putting it behind us.  Don't buy into it...the media loves it as it sells their stories but it hurts the team, it doesn't help it.  So how about we don't care what's going on behind the scenes and with possible (or not) personal issues and focus on the team on the ice?

 

If we want an improvement we must be part of that change in a very slight way.  Don't allow those who target our team in a way as to make them a gong show and fodder for their rumour mill to use us as a medium for that. 

 

How I feel anyhow.  I am so tired of all the "talk" of the team that is drama based.

 

A fresh start needs to start some place...it doesn't have to come with a house cleaning and dumping everyone.  Lu is gone.  Av is gone.  That's heading in the direction that many have screamed for.  Are we never satisfied?  Let's start to move forward too instead of keeping our feet stuck in the sand with talk of what's happening within the team, etc.  We have no idea, so let them sort it out? 

 

And well said, Sid.  ;)


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#19 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:17 AM

 

I don't think trading Schneider was anything more than a miscalculation on Mike Gillis' part.

 

As good as Bo Horvat will be, Schneider is going to be a starter for the next 10 years, and will soon be counted among the league's elite goaltenders.

 

Gillis should have resigned himself to retaining salary in a Luongo trade last year rather than going from two of the top goalies in the league to an unproven, but promising tandem.

 

Trading Schneider was sort of forced by the fanbase/media. Luongo couldn't be moved at the time, so naturally Schneider should have been dealt. Not really sure what you're trying to say. Horvat will be very good, but so will Schneider? well, both are 1st round picks and from what we've seen from Horvat in the minors, he could probably be playing on the team now.

 

I personally am not finding this new tandem to be incredibly promising. Lack is a pretty good goalie, and he is obviously going to improve, but so far some things I've noticed about his game is how easily he loses sight of the puck and how slow he is laterally. Luongo was an absolute master at puck tracking, and it shows already the difference he actually made to the team regardless of his form.


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Formerly known as LordofBrussels

There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


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#20 elvis15

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:00 AM

Botchford is, I'm sure, capable of writing an unbiased and non-sensationalized article - but this isn't one of them.

 

 

The issue was even broached at the same draft the Canucks traded Schneider. There, Florida GM Dale Tallon again told the Canucks the Panthers could be interested in Luongo.

 

The Canucks didn’t take it seriously. In this long cat-and-mouse game Tallon was playing, he had told the Canucks he could be interested in Luongo a couple of dozen times. It never went anywhere. And it didn’t at the draft.

Who says they didn't take it seriously? Tallon said himself the previous ownership hadn't been willing to back the trade or it would have been done last year. Just because they'd still expressed interest doesn't mean they were willing to meet reasonable terms for a deal.

 

I'd certainly think they might have signed off on a deal where we were close to or at the 50% max retained for Luongo's deal, but then why would we have made that deal? Even if they start throwing top prospects/young players our way to convince us, that's a lot to swallow.

 

It's not Gillis' fault that the previous owners in Florida couldn't wrap their heads around the offset of increased revenue Luongo would bring. Luongo could have put them at least a lot closer to playoff contention, and even just two home playoff games covers a good portion of his salary. Then there's merchandising around such a popular player, especially with long standing names like Booth and Weiss gone. New ownership realized this.

 

 

 

I don't think trading Schneider was anything more than a miscalculation on Mike Gillis' part.

 

As good as Bo Horvat will be, Schneider is going to be a starter for the next 10 years, and will soon be counted among the league's elite goaltenders.

 

Gillis should have resigned himself to retaining salary in a Luongo trade last year rather than going from two of the top goalies in the league to an unproven, but promising tandem.

In ten years, Schneider will be 3 years older than Luongo is currently. There's a very real chance he won't be a starter by that time, whether it's just declining play or injuries - both of which Luongo detractors have cited as a reason to trade Lu in the past.

 

How much would you say is a reasonable amount to retain in a trade? What would have gotten it done last year? As I already noted above, the old ownership wasn't willing to sign off on a Luongo deal for financial reasons, so what would have made it palatable for them?

 


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#21 poetica

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:15 AM

DeNiro already answered this perfectly, but I'll expand on this a little further. Two of the goalies you mentioned, Brodeur and Belfour, were (and in Brodeur's case, still is) no longer considered ELITE goaltenders later in their careers. Brodeur hasn't put up elite numbers since 2010. As for Roy, he retired at his peak, before a decline in his numbers. Unless Schneider turns into the freak of nature that was Hasek and can put up insane numbers well into his 40s,
expect Schneider to begin his decline the same time as every other goalie (see Luongo).

 

This is exactly the kind of thing I don't get when people talk about "elite." No one has ever been able to give me an actual working definition and often their examples contradict their own apparent definition.

 

Case and point: In 09/10 Brodeur had a .916 SV%, putting him 13th among SV% leaders. Currently Luo has a .917 SV%, putting him 14th among SV% leaders. I don't get how one of those is proof the goalie was "elite" and the other is proof the goalie is in end-of-career decline.

 

I don't know who is or isn't elite because as best as I can tell it's a fluff word that has no real value beyond the opinion of person using the term. What I do know is that we shouldn't need our goalie to be some mythical "elite" being. We just need him to give his team a chance to win almost all of the games he starts. Luo did that. Schneider did that. And Lack is doing that now. That's really all we can ask for. The rest is up to the team.


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Go, Canucks, Go!
Every single one of them.

Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#22 LuongovsTuuka

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:21 AM

The point that's overlooked is that even after the trades, the Canucks' problem is scoring and a lack of depth. There will be plenty of goaltenders available this summer if the Canucks need one. I think Lack is a solid goaltender in his own right and is the reason both deals got made. Markstrom could still develop. I remember San Jose had three goaltenders years back and traded Kiprusoff to Calgary because they had Toskala and Nabokov. Kipper had TERRIBLE numbers the year the Sharks traded him away, an .879 save percentage and a losing record.

For years on CDC I have read complaints about the amount of money the Canucks spent on goaltending and how teams win championships with good, not great, goaltending (Pittsburgh, Chicago, Detroit with Osgood) and now people want to complain there is no elite netminder on the team anymore? If I do a shot every time the word "elite" gets thrown around on this forum, I will die of alcohol poisoning within 24 hours.

Corey Crawford wasn't even on Team Canada at the Olympics and he won all 16 games for the Hawks in the playoffs last year. Marc Andre Fleury wasn't there either. Anti Niemi wasn't the starter for Finland and he has a Cup ring, too.

I also have watched hockey for a long time, long enough to have watched every Devils cup win. Martin Brodeur never stole them a Cup. He was solid, even tempered and consistent. He didn't have to save 40 shots, had the trap in front of him and some guy named Stevens flattening anyone who tried to cross the middle of the ice in their own zone.

The Canucks need young, fast talent with good hands and a Scott Stevens type blueliner. I am glad the Lou drama is over for his sake, for the team's sake and so the fanbase can move on. Schneider is a very good, top 15 goalie in the NHL. No one knows if he'll become a consistent top 5 goalie in the NHL or not. He certainly hasn't posted the type of numbers in Jersey this year I expected.

If Lack doesn't have the confidence of the team's management, there will be others available. Cam Ward could be on the outs with Carolina. Brian Elliott, Jaroslav Halak and Jonas Hiller could be had as free agents. Maybe Boston moves Malcolm Subban (and he's putting up great numbers for a teenager in the AHL). There are others, too. I can't remember a time where there has been so much depth in the NHL when it comes to goaltending.
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#23 asian player

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:35 AM

How do we always manage to make goaltending an issue? Luongo and Schneider was fine. Lack and Markstrom is fine. 


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#24 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:38 AM

For one thing those are some of the best goalies of all time. Hall of famers.

Schneider will not likely be among them. If he was, he would be single handedly carrying the Devils into the playoffs, which he is not. He's splitting the net with Brodeur. Great goalie, but fans really build him up too much. You would think we've never drafted a starter before...

Lack was top 5 in both GAA and SV% before the Islanders game. He has shown he can be among the top goalies. He has also had a much worse team offensively in front of him than Schneider, and done very well for a rookie without a veteran to guide him.

We've recently acquired 3 goalies that have the potential to be starters. And based on the goalie market the last couple years, I would say it's not nearly as hard to acquire a goalie as it is to acquire top end offensive talent.


Who knows how good Ginger will be?

What we do know is life is what you make of it. We currently have $2.9 mill, $3.7 if you consider Lou's retained salary, invested in goaltending versus the cap. Compared to just over $9.4 mill last year. Thats almost $5 mill, considering we have our defense "locked up" (lol), to re-invest in restoring our scoring potency and talent base.

Consider that Chicago has twice used young inexpensive goaltending (Crawford at at $2.6 mill, Niemi at $0.83 mill)to bankroll front heavy talent that smothered teams on their way to two cups.
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#25 Heretic

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:48 AM

For one thing those are some of the best goalies of all time. Hall of famers.

Schneider will not likely be among them. If he was, he would be single handedly carrying the Devils into the playoffs, which he is not. He's splitting the net with Brodeur. Great goalie, but fans really build him up too much. You would think we've never drafted a starter before...

Lack was top 5 in both GAA and SV% before the Islanders game. He has shown he can be among the top goalies. He has also had a much worse team offensively in front of him than Schneider, and done very well for a rookie without a veteran to guide him.

We've recently acquired 3 goalies that have the potential to be starters. And based on the goalie market the last couple years, I would say it's not nearly as hard to acquire a goalie as it is to acquire top end offensive talent.

 

 

Exactly - or he would have carried us to a Stanley Cup in 2011/12.

 

That said - I hope he does well with the Devils, just like I hope Luongo does well with the Panthers.

 

Schneider will be making more than Luongo his next contract - them both gone clears up a lot of cap space for the Canucks.


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#26 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 12:15 PM

Haha: Has anyone else noticed that Burrows has started scoring again now that Lou has left? :)
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#27 elvis15

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 01:27 PM

The only miscalculation on the part of Gillis was not getting rid of Schneider but not realizing how much a specific clause in Luongo's NTC would affect his interest by other clubs. Gillis could NOT trade Luongo last year because of this clause. This clause is courtesy of Capgeek.com:

 

Full NTC (Exception 1: Player can supply five-team trade list following final game of 2013-14, valid through July 15, 2014; Exception 2: If player does not submit trade list as documented in Exception 1, team can request a five-team trade list following final game of 2017-18 season, valid through Sept. 1, 2018. If player submitted a trade list in 2014 and was not moved, team loses right to request trade list in 2018.)

 

No GM in the league, besides the Panther's Tallon, would accept taking on Lu's contract knowing potentially the fact that his family lives in South Florida and that he could give a list of teams to be traded to following only one year.

 

Because of this clause and wanting some harmony in the dressing room, Canuck management decided to trade Schnieder, a plan that was Plan A all along considering the commitment it originally made to Luongo.

 

Albeit you are correct that the current tandem is unproven but promising, I have a feeling we'll have another goaltending controversy of the positive nature that Luongo and Schnieder started to become roughly three years ago---two quality goalies in Lack and Markstrom tutored and honed by Rollie making it one of the, if not the, best tandums in the game. 

You're way off base here and I'm a fan of clearing up misinformation.

 

Luongo coming to the team and stating he'd be willing to be traded supersedes any details of his NTC. Luongo can still control his destiny by limiting the number of teams and locations he wants to go to similar to the first exception, but he's waiving his NTC regardless of those exceptions. He was even rumoured to have nixed another potential deal after his initial ask out because he felt a Florida deal was still an option - if he was being shopped as a part of exception #1, he wouldn't be able to block a deal so long as it was to one of the five teams he specified.

 

The more important note is since Luongo's already waived his NTC outside of the listed exceptions, it effectively invalidates the NTC once a trade is completed. It's the option of the team he's traded to whether or not to continue the NTC. Some teams might do it as a courtesy for a player, and a player could ask to have it continued before accepting a trade, but it's definitely not a requirement and it's more often dropped altogether after a trade.

 

The exceptions in his NTC would likely have no bearing on any trade if he's already agreed to waive outside of it for any specific deal.

 

 

As for the controversial, "team" related stuff.  I, personally, wish that the changes being made would indicate a fresh start and that we can stop with this crap in putting it behind us.  Don't buy into it...the media loves it as it sells their stories but it hurts the team, it doesn't help it.  So how about we don't care what's going on behind the scenes and with possible (or not) personal issues and focus on the team on the ice?

 

If we want an improvement we must be part of that change in a very slight way.  Don't allow those who target our team in a way as to make them a gong show and fodder for their rumour mill to use us as a medium for that. 

 

How I feel anyhow.  I am so tired of all the "talk" of the team that is drama based.

 

A fresh start needs to start some place...it doesn't have to come with a house cleaning and dumping everyone.  Lu is gone.  Av is gone.  That's heading in the direction that many have screamed for.  Are we never satisfied?  Let's start to move forward too instead of keeping our feet stuck in the sand with talk of what's happening within the team, etc.  We have no idea, so let them sort it out? 

...

Amen.


Edited by elvis15, 17 March 2014 - 01:29 PM.

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#28 D-Money

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:46 PM

If we were still contending, letting go of your two top goalies would be a ridiculous move.

But it is clear that we're not contending at all this season. Our young backup looks promising, and there will be a TON of UFA goals hitting the market in July.

It is the perfect storm to cut ties, gain assets and cap room, see what we have with the young guys, and if necessary, pick up a new veteran starter for nothing but cash (Halak?).

Luongo not playing in the HC may have been the catalyst to him wanting to move ASAP, but the team's free-fall likely made it a priority of management too.
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#29 oldnews

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:39 PM

Botchford is, I'm sure, capable of writing an unbiased and non-sensationalized article - but this isn't one of them.

 

Who says they didn't take it seriously? Tallon said himself the previous ownership hadn't been willing to back the trade or it would have been done last year. Just because they'd still expressed interest doesn't mean they were willing to meet reasonable terms for a deal.

 

I don't share that first sentiment.  He's never published anything but.

 

But precisely.  Who is Botchford to pretend to know what offers the Canucks did or did not take seriously?

Gillis has cut a handful of deals with Dale Tallon.  Botchford on the other hand is a pre-eminent pretender that actual NHL insiders wouldn't waste a word on.

"But that’s as far forward as they were looking."  Botch is prolific in one respect - impotent misrepresentations.

Arrogant and talking out his ass is his signature, pretending to speak for the mindset of Canucks management.

No wonder he is a peripheral cliche on the media landscape in Vancouver.

Some folks on here might get suckered into taking his easy. lazy and cheap approach seriously (let alone unedited half the time), but it isn't worth the drama he's charged to stir.

As for going from two top 10 goaltenders....the last time Luongo was a top 10 goaltender, the Sedins were Hart and Art Ross kind of guys.

Luo had an opening shutout against Buffalo, and then four straight games where .906 is his best performance, a loss to none other than Eddie Lack.

Botch can peddle his drama until the Province is a recycling depot.


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#30 prix57

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:26 PM

Does torts have any intention of playing Markstrom down the stretch? Or will he be riding Lack for all the remaining games?
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