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Enter: Lack, Exit: Luongo


nux4lyfe

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DeNiro already answered this perfectly, but I'll expand on this a little further. Two of the goalies you mentioned, Brodeur and Belfour, were (and in Brodeur's case, still is) no longer considered ELITE goaltenders later in their careers. Brodeur hasn't put up elite numbers since 2010. As for Roy, he retired at his peak, before a decline in his numbers. Unless Schneider turns into the freak of nature that was Hasek and can put up insane numbers well into his 40s,

expect Schneider to begin his decline the same time as every other goalie (see Luongo).

This is exactly the kind of thing I don't get when people talk about "elite." No one has ever been able to give me an actual working definition and often their examples contradict their own apparent definition.

Case and point: In 09/10 Brodeur had a .916 SV%, putting him 13th among SV% leaders. Currently Luo has a .917 SV%, putting him 14th among SV% leaders. I don't get how one of those is proof the goalie was "elite" and the other is proof the goalie is in end-of-career decline.

I don't know who is or isn't elite because as best as I can tell it's a fluff word that has no real value beyond the opinion of person using the term. What I do know is that we shouldn't need our goalie to be some mythical "elite" being. We just need him to give his team a chance to win almost all of the games he starts. Luo did that. Schneider did that. And Lack is doing that now. That's really all we can ask for. The rest is up to the team.

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The point that's overlooked is that even after the trades, the Canucks' problem is scoring and a lack of depth. There will be plenty of goaltenders available this summer if the Canucks need one. I think Lack is a solid goaltender in his own right and is the reason both deals got made. Markstrom could still develop. I remember San Jose had three goaltenders years back and traded Kiprusoff to Calgary because they had Toskala and Nabokov. Kipper had TERRIBLE numbers the year the Sharks traded him away, an .879 save percentage and a losing record.

For years on CDC I have read complaints about the amount of money the Canucks spent on goaltending and how teams win championships with good, not great, goaltending (Pittsburgh, Chicago, Detroit with Osgood) and now people want to complain there is no elite netminder on the team anymore? If I do a shot every time the word "elite" gets thrown around on this forum, I will die of alcohol poisoning within 24 hours.

Corey Crawford wasn't even on Team Canada at the Olympics and he won all 16 games for the Hawks in the playoffs last year. Marc Andre Fleury wasn't there either. Anti Niemi wasn't the starter for Finland and he has a Cup ring, too.

I also have watched hockey for a long time, long enough to have watched every Devils cup win. Martin Brodeur never stole them a Cup. He was solid, even tempered and consistent. He didn't have to save 40 shots, had the trap in front of him and some guy named Stevens flattening anyone who tried to cross the middle of the ice in their own zone.

The Canucks need young, fast talent with good hands and a Scott Stevens type blueliner. I am glad the Lou drama is over for his sake, for the team's sake and so the fanbase can move on. Schneider is a very good, top 15 goalie in the NHL. No one knows if he'll become a consistent top 5 goalie in the NHL or not. He certainly hasn't posted the type of numbers in Jersey this year I expected.

If Lack doesn't have the confidence of the team's management, there will be others available. Cam Ward could be on the outs with Carolina. Brian Elliott, Jaroslav Halak and Jonas Hiller could be had as free agents. Maybe Boston moves Malcolm Subban (and he's putting up great numbers for a teenager in the AHL). There are others, too. I can't remember a time where there has been so much depth in the NHL when it comes to goaltending.

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For one thing those are some of the best goalies of all time. Hall of famers.

Schneider will not likely be among them. If he was, he would be single handedly carrying the Devils into the playoffs, which he is not. He's splitting the net with Brodeur. Great goalie, but fans really build him up too much. You would think we've never drafted a starter before...

Lack was top 5 in both GAA and SV% before the Islanders game. He has shown he can be among the top goalies. He has also had a much worse team offensively in front of him than Schneider, and done very well for a rookie without a veteran to guide him.

We've recently acquired 3 goalies that have the potential to be starters. And based on the goalie market the last couple years, I would say it's not nearly as hard to acquire a goalie as it is to acquire top end offensive talent.

Who knows how good Ginger will be?

What we do know is life is what you make of it. We currently have $2.9 mill, $3.7 if you consider Lou's retained salary, invested in goaltending versus the cap. Compared to just over $9.4 mill last year. Thats almost $5 mill, considering we have our defense "locked up" (lol), to re-invest in restoring our scoring potency and talent base.

Consider that Chicago has twice used young inexpensive goaltending (Crawford at at $2.6 mill, Niemi at $0.83 mill)to bankroll front heavy talent that smothered teams on their way to two cups.

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For one thing those are some of the best goalies of all time. Hall of famers.

Schneider will not likely be among them. If he was, he would be single handedly carrying the Devils into the playoffs, which he is not. He's splitting the net with Brodeur. Great goalie, but fans really build him up too much. You would think we've never drafted a starter before...

Lack was top 5 in both GAA and SV% before the Islanders game. He has shown he can be among the top goalies. He has also had a much worse team offensively in front of him than Schneider, and done very well for a rookie without a veteran to guide him.

We've recently acquired 3 goalies that have the potential to be starters. And based on the goalie market the last couple years, I would say it's not nearly as hard to acquire a goalie as it is to acquire top end offensive talent.

Exactly - or he would have carried us to a Stanley Cup in 2011/12.

That said - I hope he does well with the Devils, just like I hope Luongo does well with the Panthers.

Schneider will be making more than Luongo his next contract - them both gone clears up a lot of cap space for the Canucks.

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The only miscalculation on the part of Gillis was not getting rid of Schneider but not realizing how much a specific clause in Luongo's NTC would affect his interest by other clubs. Gillis could NOT trade Luongo last year because of this clause. This clause is courtesy of Capgeek.com:

Full NTC (Exception 1: Player can supply five-team trade list following final game of 2013-14, valid through July 15, 2014; Exception 2: If player does not submit trade list as documented in Exception 1, team can request a five-team trade list following final game of 2017-18 season, valid through Sept. 1, 2018. If player submitted a trade list in 2014 and was not moved, team loses right to request trade list in 2018.)

No GM in the league, besides the Panther's Tallon, would accept taking on Lu's contract knowing potentially the fact that his family lives in South Florida and that he could give a list of teams to be traded to following only one year.

Because of this clause and wanting some harmony in the dressing room, Canuck management decided to trade Schnieder, a plan that was Plan A all along considering the commitment it originally made to Luongo.

Albeit you are correct that the current tandem is unproven but promising, I have a feeling we'll have another goaltending controversy of the positive nature that Luongo and Schnieder started to become roughly three years ago---two quality goalies in Lack and Markstrom tutored and honed by Rollie making it one of the, if not the, best tandums in the game.

You're way off base here and I'm a fan of clearing up misinformation.

Luongo coming to the team and stating he'd be willing to be traded supersedes any details of his NTC. Luongo can still control his destiny by limiting the number of teams and locations he wants to go to similar to the first exception, but he's waiving his NTC regardless of those exceptions. He was even rumoured to have nixed another potential deal after his initial ask out because he felt a Florida deal was still an option - if he was being shopped as a part of exception #1, he wouldn't be able to block a deal so long as it was to one of the five teams he specified.

The more important note is since Luongo's already waived his NTC outside of the listed exceptions, it effectively invalidates the NTC once a trade is completed. It's the option of the team he's traded to whether or not to continue the NTC. Some teams might do it as a courtesy for a player, and a player could ask to have it continued before accepting a trade, but it's definitely not a requirement and it's more often dropped altogether after a trade.

The exceptions in his NTC would likely have no bearing on any trade if he's already agreed to waive outside of it for any specific deal.

As for the controversial, "team" related stuff. I, personally, wish that the changes being made would indicate a fresh start and that we can stop with this crap in putting it behind us. Don't buy into it...the media loves it as it sells their stories but it hurts the team, it doesn't help it. So how about we don't care what's going on behind the scenes and with possible (or not) personal issues and focus on the team on the ice?

If we want an improvement we must be part of that change in a very slight way. Don't allow those who target our team in a way as to make them a gong show and fodder for their rumour mill to use us as a medium for that.

How I feel anyhow. I am so tired of all the "talk" of the team that is drama based.

A fresh start needs to start some place...it doesn't have to come with a house cleaning and dumping everyone. Lu is gone. Av is gone. That's heading in the direction that many have screamed for. Are we never satisfied? Let's start to move forward too instead of keeping our feet stuck in the sand with talk of what's happening within the team, etc. We have no idea, so let them sort it out?

...

Amen.

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If we were still contending, letting go of your two top goalies would be a ridiculous move.

But it is clear that we're not contending at all this season. Our young backup looks promising, and there will be a TON of UFA goals hitting the market in July.

It is the perfect storm to cut ties, gain assets and cap room, see what we have with the young guys, and if necessary, pick up a new veteran starter for nothing but cash (Halak?).

Luongo not playing in the HC may have been the catalyst to him wanting to move ASAP, but the team's free-fall likely made it a priority of management too.

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Botchford is, I'm sure, capable of writing an unbiased and non-sensationalized article - but this isn't one of them.

Who says they didn't take it seriously? Tallon said himself the previous ownership hadn't been willing to back the trade or it would have been done last year. Just because they'd still expressed interest doesn't mean they were willing to meet reasonable terms for a deal.

I don't share that first sentiment. He's never published anything but.

But precisely. Who is Botchford to pretend to know what offers the Canucks did or did not take seriously?

Gillis has cut a handful of deals with Dale Tallon. Botchford on the other hand is a pre-eminent pretender that actual NHL insiders wouldn't waste a word on.

"But that’s as far forward as they were looking." Botch is prolific in one respect - impotent misrepresentations.

Arrogant and talking out his ass is his signature, pretending to speak for the mindset of Canucks management.

No wonder he is a peripheral cliche on the media landscape in Vancouver.

Some folks on here might get suckered into taking his easy. lazy and cheap approach seriously (let alone unedited half the time), but it isn't worth the drama he's charged to stir.

As for going from two top 10 goaltenders....the last time Luongo was a top 10 goaltender, the Sedins were Hart and Art Ross kind of guys.

Luo had an opening shutout against Buffalo, and then four straight games where .906 is his best performance, a loss to none other than Eddie Lack.

Botch can peddle his drama until the Province is a recycling depot.

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