2nd Line Center

[CanucksSayEh]

Kes will still have good value as a rental come his final year. If we can't re-sign him, and aren't looking to go far, then fine, trade him. Until then, can we please just get a winger for him?? If we can't trade for one, or draft one, then get Edler the heck outta here, and pay one.

[oldnews]

I'm not sure why but I almost always disagree with everything you say, that's an accomplishment there's not a lot that can live up to that.

I can't think of anyone who trumps you in this sense.

A few posters in the running, but you're definitely a contender.

[wallstreetamigo]

That's speculation at this point. If you choose to believe basically one rumour that sprouted all the others over Kesler's direct statement (supported by comments from Gillis and Bieksa) then that's your choice, but I don't agree it's that set in stone. Maybe we wouldn't mind trading him and he is ok with accepting a deal if one comes up, but it's not going to happen if the price isn't right - certainly not while he isn't openly forcing a deal.

I agree with this. I think it is more media BS in an attempt to undermine the Canucks and force the price down if they do try to deal Kesler.

If Kesler wants to go he is at least not being a dbag about it to force Gillis to accept scraps it seems.

[JeremyCuddles]

I think it may be a good idea to keep Kesler to kind of mentor Gaunce and Horvat. And there are few FA centre's I'd be interested in. Kesler, Santo, and Higgins line seemed pretty good in December, before injuries.

Honestly I'd rather take a shot at Callahan in FA. Played his best hockey for Torts and plays Kesler style of hockey. That'd be an annoying line to play against. Although goal scoring may be an issue. They'd shut you down.

Although we'd have quite a few RWer's if you count Burrows and Santorelli. Burr, Santo, Jensen, Kassian, and Hansen. Archie RW?

[wallstreetamigo]

I'll second you on this one elvis; I think it says more about nino. nucknit may second nino on this one, but like nino, who knows what his actual point may be? His posts have predominantly come in morse code lately.

And this is nino after all. Meh. HIs latest was a failed attempt to claim that Gillis tried to sell Kassian as an immediate "impact" player (not surprisingly, his own words) - so it's not hard to imagine him not being too concerned with actual context and objecting to you stating the limits of what you think we actually know at this point. Taking things in context can get in the way of dramatic revisions - and revisions seem to be what nino is all about. According to nino, Booth was a "third liner" on a bad team when Gillis acquired him, so again, grasping reality, not his strong suit.

To be fair, at the time of the trade Gillis did make some comments to the effect that Kassian was a guy that could step in and contribute right away. I don't know if he or anyone else really believed that but he needed to say it in the aftermath of the trade.

Having said that, I don't recall him saying he would be an impact player.

Booth was a top 6 player in Florida and frequently on the top line. Calling him a 3rd liner there is just not accurate.

[Absent Canuck]

Everyone knows that because why? Because one Eastern media guy reported it?

It sure launched a storm of speculation and even offers from teams that would be interested if Kesler did want out, but beyond that initial report, what else was there reported from other sources (not based on the original report) to support it?

Gillis was certainly listening to calls based on the reports that followed, but that's a big leap from there to actively shopping Kesler. It's similar to the Paccioretti rumours from earlier in the year where Montreal was getting calls but didn't actually have him on the market.

Did Gillis not say for the record everyone was for sale except the twins?

GMs do not roll up their sleeves and try to make deals for players when they refuse to be traded. Kesler wants to be traded but only to specific teams.

Ryans time here in Vancouver has been bittersweet . Like Luongo before him, he has already moved on .

[Blue & Green]

Kesler is one of the best 2-way centers in the NHL, too valuable to move to the wing especially with no suitable replacement currently on the roster.

I hope the last few remaining games this year has the top 6 looking like this:

Sedin Sedin Jensen

Burrows Kesler Kassian

Kass setting up Kes in the offensive zone while Burr and Kes great defensive play helps offset Kass's deficiencies, and what better tutors for Kass to learn D from.

That leaves

Higgins Richardson Hansen

as an incredibly solid 3rd line.

[elvis15]

While I generally agree with everything you say, speculation is all we do here so... carry on...

As for Kesler, there has been way to much smoke for there not to be at least a smoldering fire there.

I am sure he is well aware of all the potential 3rd and 2nd line center's coming up and he has said he does not like playing wing. Just one long injury in the next year or two and Bam! Horvat or Shinkaruk or Gaunce or Fox has taken his spot.

I like Kesler but his style of play has taken a few half-life's off his body already. It's time he slow it down with 3C duties and save some health for the playoffs to step up to 2C or 1W but that won't happen, you can see him coast here and there but as soon as he get's pissed off it's full speed ahead again.

Speculation is fine, but calling out that Kesler will for sure be gone by a certain time is past the point of speculating. I can speculate even if he wouldn't mind a trade that the return won't be there so we keep him instead. He's been around long enough not to trade on speculation anyway, or even think it's likely in any way he'll be replaced as a top 6 center before his contract ends.

I agree with this. I think it is more media BS in an attempt to undermine the Canucks and force the price down if they do try to deal Kesler.

If Kesler wants to go he is at least not being a dbag about it to force Gillis to accept scraps it seems.

While I'm not saying I subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the media is against us, we agree on this at least that Kesler clearly hasn't been forcing a deal even if he did say he'd accept a trade. That flies in the face of the initial report that he'd requested a trade to start the season.

He may still be traded but to say for sure he'll be gone by a certain point is a lesson we all should have learned from the Luongo trade (both when he wasn't and when he was) and that situation had Luongo himself saying he'd welcome a trade. Kesler's done the opposite.

Did Gillis not say for the record everyone was for sale except the twins?

GMs do not roll up their sleeves and try to make deals for players when they refuse to be traded. Kesler wants to be traded but only to specific teams.

Ryans time here in Vancouver has been bittersweet . Like Luongo before him, he has already moved on .

Where are you getting he's refused to be traded or wants to be traded? Or that Gillis was actively making a deal for Kesler?

I don't have the wording on the original quote, but if you want to prove your point you should probably find it. Stating with such certainty that Kesler wants out of here and has moved on based off a rumour is only your opinion, yet you try and make it sound like fact.

Maybe Kesler would accept a trade to specific teams, and Gillis certainly is going to answer the phone if someone calls. It doesn't matter if a player has an NTC if another GM wants to phone to check in on what offer Gillis might consider fair.We can speculate on if that could happen but none of the details we have confidently support the stance you've taken.

[wallstreetamigo]

I agree elvis. Demanding a trade and suggesting you would be willing to move on are two VERY different things both in terms of how much leverage a GM has in making a deal and in how the situation plays itself out.

Nothing I have seen convinces me that Kesler has demanded a trade.

[elvis15]

Now let's hope the world doesn't end since we've just agreed on something!

[oldnews]

To be fair, at the time of the trade Gillis did make some comments to the effect that Kassian was a guy that could step in and contribute right away. I don't know if he or anyone else really believed that but he needed to say it in the aftermath of the trade.

Having said that, I don't recall him saying he would be an impact player.

Booth was a top 6 player in Florida and frequently on the top line. Calling him a 3rd liner there is just not accurate.

Yeah, that's certainly a fair recollection. Gillis said that he has a long way to go to meet his potential, but was essentially NHL ready regardless, implied that he would be able to step into the lineup, and was going to help the team - what the timeline was for how much he'd help wasn't really stated.

I don't see what he said as a misrepresentation at all. I think he was pretty forthright - Kassian wasn't merely a project, but he also wasn't that far along his development curve. Kassian stepped in and played a little more than 11 minutes a game - pretty much tweener depth minutes, and only a couple off of what Hodgson was playing.

But I think the point elvis is trying to make is that people get carried away with interpretations that go well beyond what is actually stated or known. My personal impression is that Kesler will probably be moved if the right deal presents itself (and I think that's kind of what Absent was saying, although went a bit beyond to say what Kesler wants) - but I certainly can't base my impression on any 'knowledge' that he in fact wants out. I think at this point we're pretty much left reading between the lines. There may be a truth underlying that isn't quite stated - and probably for the best - but at this point we don't really know whether all this originates from Kesler approaching management, or management approaching Kesler, or teams approaching Gillis leading to speculation, or Kesler talking to fellow Americans at the Olympics.... People's minds simply have the tendency to turn comments such as Gillis' at the 2012 trade deadline into "he promised us an immediate impact player" or unknown sources at this deadline into 'Kesler definitely wants out.' Kesler himself however has pretty much been coy about it - something I appreciate actually.

[oldnews]

I agree with this. I think it is more media BS in an attempt to undermine the Canucks and force the price down if they do try to deal Kesler.

If Kesler wants to go he is at least not being a dbag about it to force Gillis to accept scraps it seems.

I think, as you point out, that there certainly was an element of eastern media attemptiing to influence or pressure / force Gillis' hand. The funny thing was how annoyed a few of the TSN/Laffs lobbyists were that Gillis did not in fact move Kesler in the end - as if he were somehow obliged to provide them trade news or succumb to rumours. . I'd be willing to bet there was also a fair amount of disappointment that he did manage to move Luongo, and I found the assessments of that deal to be completely sidestepped for the most part (I personally really like the deal, it's timing and was actually fairly surprised that the return was that significant). Anyhow - I also enjoyed a bit of a flipside to the attempts to drive Kesler's value down - I think all the swirl around him may have hampered other teams trying to cut deals, particularly the Leafs, whose offerings became relative small fish.

[mecomaker54]

Kes doesn't like playing wing, is he good at it? sure. but we need him to be our center He's gunna get traded at the draft anyway so until we get an idea of what we can get for him then I wouldn't put too much thought into this.

[Merci]

Ryan Kesler, Chris Tanev and Brendan Gaunce for PK Subban and a 2nd

Edler for Mantha and a 1st if he will waive

Sign Stastny

Buyout booth

Sedin Sedin Burr

Jensen Stastny Santorelli

Higgins Horvat Kassian

Ritchie Matthias Hansen

Archi

Hamhuis Subban

Edler Bieksa

Garrison Corrado

Stanton

Mix all as needed

Shinkaruk and Mantha waiting in minors plus this years pick.

Subban trade is possibly the dumbest thing ever posted on the internet.

[Merci]

I donno how other fans feel but it just feels like kesler is already on his way out.

I dont hear a media report and assume its true. But kesler didnt deny the rumour hebsimply atated he loves vancouver.

Add the luongo jabs and its pretty obvious he was being shopped.

More importantly if him and luongo wanted out for ahwile then dont let the door hit them on the way out. Stokes to fill the team with matthias and kassians and horvats dyong to juat play the game of hockey.

[Goal:thecup]

Yeah, I feel the same; that is, if Kes wants out; then get it done.

However, if he just needs an atta boy; why not try him as C1?

Hank can be an excellent C2 and we have Mathias, Horvat, Gaunce, Richardson, Lain, etc to serve as C3 and C4.

Maybe Kes could have Burr, or a FA on left wing (try Fox?) and Kassian on the right side?

I still believe GMMG wants lots of adequate players at every position to take inevitable injuries in stride.

Of course with a player of Kesler's quality and cap hit, it is fun to speculate what we could get in return for granting his wish if he does want out.

[Canuck Surfer]

I personally hope the speculation on RK17 preferring to leave is wrong. I want him to stay. Nor do i prefer him as RW.

There are very few manageable and realistic scenarios where we could have a better 2knd line center. Particularly on the UFA market where Stastny and Legwand are the best and only candidates available? I don't believe they are better either. They will also likely attract premiums beyond what allows us to work with other area's that need attention on our team.

I prefer to acquire for and / or develop the wing position. Moulson would be less expensive than Stastny for example. That could leave us room to acquire a young PMD prospect to groom. Skipping forward to next year, between Kassian, Horvat,Jensen, perhaps Fox and Gaunce i have a hard time believing we don't have the potential to upgrade our top 6 wing even internally. And I personally believe its a foregone conclusion we will already get better results from Danny and Burr.

Even if Kess leaves, we picked up Mathias and can (?) re-sign Santorelli. We have Horvat, Gaunce and Cassels in the pipeline. For the first time in years we have a succession plan falling into place. Let it take its course...

[alt kilgore]

Maybe that says more about you than it does about me?

But what exactly do you disagree with (this time at least)? Or is it more that you have 100% certainty Kesler will be gone by the draft (or at least training camp)?

Pretty much this.

There was the initial tweet by the reporter from Quebec (and he later reaffirmed/stood by that tweet again) but apart from that I'm not sure what other reports there were not based off that initial tweet that Kesler actually wanted out. There were plenty of reports/rumours around teams being interested in Kesler as the deadline approached that started all from that first tweet, but if anyone has other reports that support the initial tweet I'd be happy to see them.

The way I see it is this:

Kesler was in a bar in Sochi with fellow American players when he was overheard saying whatever he did. He was talking to other Americans, who were mostly playing in American cities. Add to that his Canadian hatred was ramped up for the Olympic tournament. Add to that the Canucks depressing slide in the standings in the previous month. He may have said that he'd like to play in the US, talking to other American NHLers, ones who would love to have him on their team and probably told him so. In certain circumstances we say things that are molded to the crowd we are sitting in.

He very well may not be heartbroken to go play in a city of his home country. Who would? And I'd even say that once he found out how blase or even in favour many fans were about him leaving, he may have decided that he wouldn't have a problem if it did happen. But that's a far cry from demanding a trade out of Vancouver. Just like the Hodgson "demands" most of this is some reporter wanting to make a name for himself and others piling on to keep a controversy going.

[Westcoasting]

Where there is smoke, there is fire... I would be very surprised to see Kesler here for all of next season.

[lmm]

I think that is a beat case scenario for this team. IF kesler is moved and we don't get a 2nd line center, I think Santorelli would be fine for a season until Horvat can start to be a 2nd line center. I could also be wrong and he just steps right into the role next year without a problem, that's something I'd like to see