[Official] Toronto Blue Jays Major League Baseball thread

[TheRussianRocket.]

Am I the only one worried with Shapiro being the president?

no

[flickyoursedin]

Am I the only one worried with Shapiro being the president?

I think a lot of people are scared of what could happen. I am a firm believer that Shapiro has gotten a bad rep with valuing prospects so much because he was limited with Cleveland's self imposed cap space. They needed cheap labour if you will. The blue jays cap is almost double of what the indians was this year.

[Wilbur]

There's something we aren't being let in on [yet] about AA's decision not to return. Both he and Shapiro are saying both all the right things, yet nothing, all at once.

The comments AA made about him "not having to be a GM" makes me wonder if, with a young family, he wants to have a little less responsibility right now.  Just a thought, my guess is the answer couldn't be boiled down to any one thing though.

[BoKnows]

Blue Jays excercised club options on Jose Bautista, RA Dickey, and EE.

Infeilder Izturis recieved a $1 M buyout.  Free angency has begun so the next couple of weeks should be interesting!

(We have till the 6th until players can sign to other teams).

Edited November 4, 2015 by BoKnows

[RonMexico]

Am I the only one worried with Shapiro being the president?

Worried about what? That he might rebuild a gutted farm system?

Much like the Canucks when Benning took over, there are a few decent prospects around but realistically, the Jays have no depth in the minors and likely will rank in the bottom 5 of prospect depth in the league. Granted, I am happy with the playoff run and how AA acquired the pieces that were needed, but sacrifices were made. Unfortunately, this leaves significant gaps in the system which need filling. I am hoping that this core gets held together for another 2 years or more so they have a chance to repeat their success and in the mean time, try to rebuild some minor league depth. I know it's asking for the same thing the Canucks are doing right now but with multiple levels of minors, I think in baseball it can actually be accomplished.

Edited November 4, 2015 by RonMexico

[flickyoursedin]

How does compensatory picks work in mlb? Do the jays get picks for Price, Estrada, Navarro, Lowe or even Buehrle (if he decides to sign somewhere) if any or all decide to sign somewhere else and have been given QO's.

[oldnews]

Am I the only one worried with Shapiro being the president?

I was not impressed with that interview he gave.  Never paid any attention to him before tbh - but my impression of him at this point is not flattering.

I personally wish he would have remained loyal to Cleveland. 

He took over as GM of a club in Cleveland that had 89, 97, 90 wins the previous three seasons.  His first year there they won 91 - and then since....3 times in 14 years they've hit that mark, a couple times in 8 years with him as GM - a job he turned over after a 65 win season. 

It's funny - people can cite a lack of a budget as an explanation of a team's failure to compete - I personally don't buy that - particularly when a guy has been there that long, and has played a central role during a clear decline.  It's a hand in hand thing - you lose, your fanbase shrinks, your revenues shrink, your budget drops.  You build a poor team - your profits take a hit.  You have a low budget after managing a club for 14 years - you are integral to that fact and can't really use it as an explanation of your lack of success.

The best franchises don't build their team on a budget - they build it on knowing the game and players at all levels.

Nothing in particular Shapiro said, but I didn't buy his sincerity, and I don't get the sense that he's particularly incisive.

But perhaps more to the point - most of what he said implied an overlap of him running both the business and baseball side of things - with him assuming control of both aspects as opposed to a separation of duties where a GM is a GM and makes player personnel decisions within their budget constraints.  I don't blame Anthopolous for not being all that keen to work with him.  I'm sure AA knows him well enough - but I find him annoying tbh.  His comment that he thought Anthopolous would "compliment" him well would might be the most 'honest' part of that interview - I can imagine not many professionals looking forward to 'complementing' a guy like that.  I find myself doubting there was enough true autonomy on the table to AA's liking, and after his history with the club, why would he accept any less?

 

[oldnews]

Worried about what? That he might rebuild a gutted farm system?

Much like the Canucks when Benning took over, there are a few decent prospects around but realistically, the Jays have no depth in the minors and likely will rank in the bottom 5 of prospect depth in the league. Granted, I am happy with the playoff run and how AA acquired the pieces that were needed, but sacrifices were made. Unfortunately, this leaves significant gaps in the system which need filling. I am hoping that this core gets held together for another 2 years or more so they have a chance to repeat their success and in the mean time, try to rebuild some minor league depth. I know it's asking for the same thing the Canucks are doing right now but with multiple levels of minors, I think in baseball it can actually be accomplished.

And you're confident he'll bring more competency to that task?

[Green Building]

I was not impressed with that interview he gave.  Never paid any attention to him before tbh - but my impression of him at this point is not flattering.

 

I don't claim to know Shapiro at all, but when you look at where Cleveland was positioned in the standings over the last 1 & 1/2 decades you begin to wonder exactly what "rebuilding the farm" means to him, you wonder what he does with the farm when it is rebuilt, and you wonder if he ever gets to that point at all.

A team finishing out of the playoffs for such a long period should have some outstanding prospects that begin to shine for the club that drafted them. Does it all fall on him? Or did Cleveland have piss poor personnel feeding him info such as "draft Patrick White" and such.

It's too early to write him off, but what has he really done with the forever rebuilding Indians? 

[Green Building]

The comments AA made about him "not having to be a GM" makes me wonder if, with a young family, he wants to have a little less responsibility right now.  Just a thought, my guess is the answer couldn't be boiled down to any one thing though.

You're completely right, these decisions always need to be so cut and dried for a majority of us sports fans, but the reality is that these are life altering decisions for folk in that position. I don't know the toll it would take on me, but after so many years toiling away to just walk after the successes? Fishy might not be the right word, but something.

Maybe he went all in at the deadline knowing he wouldn't be back and hoped to go out on a high note? 

[Green Building]

I wouldn't be surprised if AA's real beef is with Edward Rogers, the Jays chairman. AA is a total Beeston guy, that with him gone, maybe AA felt he wouldn't be shielded from ownership anymore....and Shapiro will probably side with ownership everytime as he's brand new to the whole organization. Recall that Rogers went behind Beeston's back last year (or was it this offseason) to look for his replacement..called up Jerry Reinsdorf (whom they didn't know is Beeston's buddy) to inquire on a member of his staff. Well Reinsdorf goes and tells Beeston afterwards and asks if he's aware that he's being replaced behind his back like that. 

Bad joo joo there Rogers. 

Bad joo joo is bad, but can anyone explain what exact power a chairman has over a GM? Or perhaps what ER would have been holding over AA's head? 

The size of the professional sport world is incredibly small. Everyone more or less knows everyone I would imagine, and at the very least most of them would chat regularly. Those kind of "backdoor moves" wouldn't cause me to feel overwhelming allegiance.

[RonMexico]

And you're confident he'll bring more competency to that task?

If you thought I alluded to him doing a better job than AA, that wasn't what I meant. But right now I do have confidence that he will be able to rebuild the farm because this appears to be the strong part of his resume and he is basically starting from scratch. I understand the worry that the new guy will rock the boat, but I am taking the optimistic route that he won't do anything to upset the apple cart too much.

[Wilbur]

How does compensatory picks work in mlb? Do the jays get picks for Price, Estrada, Navarro, Lowe or even Buehrle (if he decides to sign somewhere) if any or all decide to sign somewhere else and have been given QO's.

Don't know the rules 100%, but depending on the qualifying offer, the Jays would get compensation for Estrada.  I don't think they get compensation for Price or Lowe (I believe because they were brought in through trade late this year).  Navarro and Buehrle, I have no idea.

[Sean Monahan]

I think our last compensation pick was in 2009 on James Paxton as a result of AJ Burnett signing with the Yanks. I'm probably wrong, but that's what's coming to mind right now.

Woulda been nice to have a top Canadian prospect in the system along with Pompei

[BoKnows]

I think our last compensation pick was in 2009 on James Paxton as a result of AJ Burnett signing with the Yanks. I'm probably wrong, but that's what's coming to mind right now.

Woulda been nice to have a top Canadian prospect in the system along with Pompei

Would be nice if we can have a top prospect in the system right now.

[Sean Monahan]

Would be nice if we can have a top prospect in the system right now.

I'd still lump youngsters like Sanchez, Stroman, and Osuna in that group.

[flickyoursedin]

I think our last compensation pick was in 2009 on James Paxton as a result of AJ Burnett signing with the Yanks. I'm probably wrong, but that's what's coming to mind right now.

Woulda been nice to have a top Canadian prospect in the system along with Pompei

I know we got both Sanchez and Syndergaard as compensatory picks in 2010, Matt Smoarl and Mitch Nay in 2012 for failing to sign Frank Francisco and Jon Rauch and most recently Jon Harris in 2015 for Melky Cabrera. I know we'll get a pick for Estrada if he's not retained I'm just more so thinking do we get a pick for Navarro? And what round that pick would fall under?

Edited November 5, 2015 by flickyoursedin

[Wilbur]

Just looked up the rules and they plainly stated

Under the new CBA, in order for a team to receive compensation draft picks for a player, they must meet the following criteria:

● The free agent must have been with their club for the entire season.

● The team must offer the departing free agent a guaranteed, one-year contract (the Qualifying Offer) “…with a salary equal to the average salary of the 125-highest paid Players from the prior season” (MLB). If the player rejects the contract, then the team will receive a compensation draft pick.

I believe that 125 average is 16.8mil as that was the number used when talking about qualifying Estrada.  So, unless the Jays send Navarro a crazy qualifying offer, they won't get compensation.

 

...and that's a crazy high number for the average of the 125 highest paid players, yowza

[flickyoursedin]

Just looked up the rules and they plainly stated

I believe that 125 average is 16.8mil as that was the number used when talking about qualifying Estrada.  So, unless the Jays send Navarro a crazy qualifying offer, they won't get compensation.

 

...and that's a crazy high number for the average of the 125 highest paid players, yowza

Damn that's too bad. Thanks for the research. Well I bet Estrada would decline as this might be his best chance at a big multi year payday! He'll probably look for 13-14 mill on a 3 or 4 year contract.

[Wilbur]

Correction, a qualifying offer has to be 15.8 million.  Still, a lot of money for a guy coming off a career year.  Personally, as long as it's 1 year, he's totally worth qualifying at the very least.  If he accepts, can think of worse pitchers to spend 15.8 million on.