Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

GM's are paid to GM


J.I.A.H.N

Recommended Posts

Title is a bit odd. Not sure what your point is there.

Also, I think you're overstating the thing about playoff teams resting their players, playing not to get injured, etc.

LA only had two regulars out of their lineup - Doughty, who was banged up, and Dwight King.

With the exception of those two, that was the team that's been on a tear for 20 games. They came out and threw 30 hits.

The Canucks had 40 shots and another 20 blocked - all in all shot attempts were 60-36.

This was a legitimate win against a good team, something the Canucks needed imo after such a lousy season and just as an example, you don't see the Winnipeg Jets rolling over and playing for a draft spot. They did what they are supposed to, came out and showed their fanbase that they may not be in the playoffs, but they might be a better team than the Toronto Maple Leafs - took it to them, and gave their fans a reason to be optimistic about the team moving forward. I think it matters, it shows pride as an organization, and it, too, is something to build on. There will be good players available whether the Canucks draft 8th or 10th or whereever, and regardless, you can't be playing games with that as the main factor in your decision making.

The Canucks aren't actually mathematically eliminated. There might be a few changes once that is the case, but again, not with a draft spot as their motivation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Point #1. Great point......delicate to say the least.........I would never sit those guys unless injured.........but you can change up #5and 6 Dman and your 4th liners a little......then roll 4 lines.......admittedly, you have to respect your players, but you can change things up a little, and take away a few minutes from the better players by rolling those lines...........still a great point!

#2 Hmmmm, I see the pitfall here! Still, isn't this the best time to test your young players.......again , I see your point.......I would still do it, but maybe this is the greatest pitfall to my idea....( I like the idea they are battling......but at the end if they are out....I am bringing them up)........Great points you bugger!

Lots to think of for roster limits and all that beyond just getting young guys games. For instance, I think we're right at the 23 man limit now even factoring in injuries (particularly with Corrado called up, a young guy who did get game time). If we wanted to call anyone else up we'd have to send someone from the current roster down. For instance, are we going to be ok with waiving Dalpe just to get Grenier a game?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ll disagree. You mentioned that PIT,EDM, CHI, but the problem is they didn’t purposely tank the last 10 games of a season to get that one higher pick. They failed for multiple years. PIT had 5 years straight drafting in the top 5, Chicago had 9 of 10 years they missed the post season and drafted 6 times in the top 10. And oilers, well I don’t have to go into much detail about them.

The other thing is, all those teams didn’t just sit there stars and ice the worst line up they could at the end of the season. They still iced their best line up and tried to win each game. Only thing was their best line up just happened to not be very good. If the decision was to be bad and get a high pick, that decision needed to be made prior to the deadline not in the last 10 games. ie. Calgary shipping out Bouwmeester and Iggy for picks.

By canucks calling up the farm, we’d be sending a message to our team and the fans, “we’ve gave up on this season, so should you”. I live in Calgary and even though the team is in the bottom 5 they probably should be in the bottom 2. The fact that the players go out and play to win each game, the fans respect that, the buzz around the city is positive about the Calgary flames. Fans go to the game expecting a loss hoping for a win, if the team wins the excitement fills the city. Compare that to the team just north of the flames and there is zero respect there. There fans go to the game expecting a loss and hoping for a loss, it’s not a fun situation for the fans or the players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Character players, character teams, character coachs and character GM's do not tank a game. And that say nothing about the poor jerks who paid good money to go and watch an NHL game....maybe for the first time, maybe with family. It's maybe one thing to be sitting in basement of your parents home with the option of switching channels but it's all together different for a guy and his family who has paid big money for a ticket

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I really don't get it? GM Mike Gillis is paid to make the tough decisions and though I understand Tort's drive to win, Mike Gillis's decision is to be able to establish what the reality is and to make adjustments accordingly.

Case in point, with 5 games left in the season, Mike asks himself and his staff, do we really have a realistic chance to make the playoffs. If the answer is yes, then full steam ahead. If however, the answer is an honest no, then the question is, what is best for the club?

Now, last night LA and many other playoff clubs started resting players with nagging injuries, this happens every year, throughout the league. The win is not important, the message is "If we win good! But don't get injured!". I have heard it said on many NHL panels, and I would argue with anyone that says different. It is a reality!

The Canucks on the other hand, (or rather Gillis) should be making different decisions, asking different questions. Specifically, do we want to throw away draft position by winning enough to take us out of the best draft position possible?

Now, I am not saying don't try, I am saying this is the time to evaluate your farm system. Not on mass, but a few each game, and somewhat like those teams that are making the playoffs, If we win,so be it, but don't get bent out of shape if we play the Shroeders, Sauves, Archibalds, Mallets etc. a few more minutes than we normally do.That should be the message to Tort's.

I not saying play them Kesler minutes, but maybe rotate 4 lines and see what they got! As Gillis should know, this season didn't work out as planned, but we start fresh next season, and we will know more if we evaluate, than if we don't, and a 6th place draft position is a much better position to be sitting in, if a top 5 pick drops.

My opinion is, always try to control your own destiny, and adjust accordingly! Anyone agree with me?

I have been saying this the whole time but I got a lot of flack for it. Its not about the players tanking. Its about the GM and coaching staff moving pieces around to give the kids some experience. If they still win, then great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ll disagree. You mentioned that PIT,EDM, CHI, but the problem is they didn’t purposely tank the last 10 games of a season to get that one higher pick. They failed for multiple years. PIT had 5 years straight drafting in the top 5, Chicago had 9 of 10 years they missed the post season and drafted 6 times in the top 10. And oilers, well I don’t have to go into much detail about them.

The other thing is, all those teams didn’t just sit there stars and ice the worst line up they could at the end of the season. They still iced their best line up and tried to win each game. Only thing was their best line up just happened to not be very good. If the decision was to be bad and get a high pick, that decision needed to be made prior to the deadline not in the last 10 games. ie. Calgary shipping out Bouwmeester and Iggy for picks.

By canucks calling up the farm, we’d be sending a message to our team and the fans, “we’ve gave up on this season, so should you”. I live in Calgary and even though the team is in the bottom 5 they probably should be in the bottom 2. The fact that the players go out and play to win each game, the fans respect that, the buzz around the city is positive about the Calgary flames. Fans go to the game expecting a loss hoping for a win, if the team wins the excitement fills the city. Compare that to the team just north of the flames and there is zero respect there. There fans go to the game expecting a loss and hoping for a loss, it’s not a fun situation for the fans or the players.

The canucks decision to 'not win the cup' was made at the deadline. Gillis traded Luongo and lobbied very hard to trade Ryan Kesler.

Your reference points are of dead last hockey teams. No team starts off in October trying to tank. However ,if the team is dead last by new years, you might want to consider ramping up on deadline rentals may not be of good use.

If you dont load up on rentals, you are also telling your fans you have no hope or you would try to add pieces to win the cup. So its not that cut and dried.

Buffalo and Edmonton are purposefully tanking. The Oilers and Sabres traded off every single piece of valuable livestock they owned in an attempt to get yet more draft picks and prospects. What is that telling the fans? Its telling them they arent interested in icing the best team . They just sold them all off.

The teams I look to who are 'gaming the system' are the Avalanche and Lightning. These guys do it smart. They make the playoffs and then then when it looks like its not going to happen the following year, they TANK HARD to get a top 5 draft pick.

What difference does it make ? Not a lot. They can argue that they 'tried' too. The only difference is one team drafts 11th to 14, and the other drafts 1st to 5th. Neither makes the playoffs. Both teams rosters tried as hard as they could. It was the GM and coach who manipulated the ability to perform.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am curious to see how management and the coaching adjust in the off season. I am have been an on the fence supporter of Gillis but i am a but shocked Hansen got a NTC that kicks in on July 1st. Hope it works out though regardless. Is a new GM needed I donno but I am starting to think so. Hope Gillis can prove his worth this off season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two things:

  • Try convincing players like the Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa, etc. to not play. Maybe you get a guy playing at 90% and sit him, but someone without really any injury? Doubt it.
  • You can't just call up whoever you want whenever you want. There are still roster limits to begin with, but also the Comets are fighting for a playoff spot themselves.
Iunno, a potential stud vs our current aging core's ego. (6th pick, I think if we lost to the kings) sounds a lot better than now, (9th?)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The canucks decision to 'not win the cup' was made at the deadline. Gillis traded Luongo and lobbied very hard to trade Ryan Kesler.

Your reference points are of dead last hockey teams. No team starts off in October trying to tank. However ,if the team is dead last by new years, you might want to consider ramping up on deadline rentals may not be of good use.

If you dont load up on rentals, you are also telling your fans you have no hope or you would try to add pieces to win the cup. So its not that cut and dried.

Buffalo and Edmonton are purposefully tanking. The Oilers and Sabres traded off every single piece of valuable livestock they owned in an attempt to get yet more draft picks and prospects. What is that telling the fans? Its telling them they arent interested in icing the best team . They just sold them all off.

The teams I look to who are 'gaming the system' are the Avalanche and Lightning. These guys do it smart. They make the playoffs and then then when it looks like its not going to happen the following year, they TANK HARD to get a top 5 draft pick.

What difference does it make ? Not a lot. They can argue that they 'tried' too. The only difference is one team drafts 11th to 14, and the other drafts 1st to 5th. Neither makes the playoffs. Both teams rosters tried as hard as they could. It was the GM and coach who manipulated the ability to perform.

Do you even believe the stuff you say?

Luongo being dealt had nothing to do with canucks not wanting to win a cup this year. It was a business decision. Luongo wasn’t going to be with this team long term so we made a deal. You put way too much emphasis on trades at the deadline. I guess COL, CHI, ANA, SJ aren’t in it to win this year since they didn’t unload picks for high end rental players. Might as well go tell their fans not to come to the games anymore and stop cheering for them this year, What a load of garbage.

EDM and BUF are purposely tanking?? yeah ok. that’s why we still see their top line getting 20+ minutes a game. Oilers vs the Ducks last night would have been an easy game to lose, heck oilers have beat the duck twice in the last 2 weeks. That seems to go your against purposely loosing statement.

Then you go on to mention Colorado and Tampa, again, do you think this was purposely planning, do well one year suck hard the next? In the first month last year TB was the top team in the league. “They were sure trying hard to suck”. The fact that their hot goalie began to crap the bed sent the team spiraling to the bottom. Same thing happened with COL, one year Anderson was hot stood on his head next year he sucked. Both teams also ended up firing their coaching staff, which sure seems like a bad idea since that was all part of the plan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No way should any team try to tank to picks. First off, how would you ever go about this? Can you imagine the team meeting?....Gillis strides in with Torts...Torts says "you know all those details I have been trying to teach you this year, playing stiff, working hard, ....forget all about that...take a break slack off..no worries" High fives are seen all around the dressing room. Kassian is on his phone reserving a table at the Roxie. Smiles all round. "Eddie, let in a few softies, yeah your stats will take a hit but if the D slacks off and allows a ton of shots against your SVP should even out."

etc.....

Not . Gonna . Happen

I would hope that players on the team I support would never allow that to happen. Fans would leave in droves and it would affect ticket sales, it would make the players hate management for forcing them to damage their own numbers and also going against all the fibers of their being, and would taint the clubs reputation for years with any players that may have been thinking of coming here.

That said....

I do agree that when we are our mathematically, which we aren't yet, we should mix in more youth, play 4 lines, just to see what we have got for next season. But that flies in the face of tanking. Because young players will be working hard to get a good contract in the NHL. No way they or their agents would ever agree to that. Its actually pretty silly to even think about all the repercussions of purposely tanking. Ron Maclean would have an orgasm on air if it ever got out.

Yes put more of our prospects into the mix, including Markstrom. And let them loose. (not lose) and play to WIN. If we do lose the last games it will be for legitimate reasons in that we are icing so many AHLers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Iunno, a potential stud vs our current aging core's ego. (6th pick, I think if we lost to the kings) sounds a lot better than now, (9th?)

That doesn't really have anything to do with my points though, does it? The Sedins care very little about whether our pick this year is a 6th or a 9th overall, certainly when compared to them putting in a good effort every night. And it's not like we can just sit them and bring up a bunch of players from Utica or junior since we're right at the 23-man roster limit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fans pay big $ to watch the pros, not a bunch of AHL guys.

There is a limit to how many players you can have on the big club.

Utica are trying to make the playoffs, so they need their best players on board.

The team needs to end this season on a postitive note and feeling good about each other. Kassian, Jensen, Matthias are making this happen, along with how well the returning injured players are doing.

Next year will be an improvement and the year after that even better. :You'll get to see your kiddies play, don't worry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reasons why we dont do this kind of thing is because our team actually has pride and integrity. On top of that, fans coming to the remaining games payed to see an NHL team play their best. I have tickets to tonights game, to a Canucks game, and I want to see the Canucks play, not the Utica Comets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you even believe the stuff you say?

EDM and BUF are purposely tanking??

Oilers vs the Ducks last night would have been an easy game to lose, heck oilers have beat the duck twice in the last 2 weeks. That seems to go your against purposely loosing(losing) statement.

Oilers tanked for the last decade.

Buffalo have gutted their team and are tanking it now.

Attempting to trade Kesler(whether he asked for the trade or not) unsettles the team when your franchise goalie was just dealt.

Anaheim have locked up the premiere position and don't need to prove anything against the Oilers or Canucks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...