Salmon Arm Canuck Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 We keep reading and writing about increasing our odds of getting a good pick. It's not about where you pick in the draft, it's how you develop the pick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 why do guys like you that think because you played junior B it somehow makes you a hockey expert We are all experts on here buddy! Including you! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSecretIsMe Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Totally agree with your post, except for 2 things. #1. We will not make the playoffs this year, even if we win all our remaining games. #2. I believe this year is somewhat of a anomally(sp)....I think the Canucks are still talented to make the playoffs....aka Dec. this year, where we played pretty good. I think we will have a lower (12 to 16 pick ) next year.Injuries killed us this year. Burrows goals alone would have put us in the playoffs...never mind the rest of the injuries. # 3. Wrong system for the players we have ( I believe) #4 If what I said is true....then this years draft pick should be as good as we can get, within the guise of fairplay and effort. Maybe I am wrong.....I was wrong on the number of points I made...lol..........Really good post! Just thinking about the otherside of the coin. Thank-you for the well thought out reply. In response to your first point: I am not assuming we will be making the playoffs at all. I was simply stating that losing on purpose is not an option for the GM. Considering that we are at the end of the season, from the business side of things, the organization would most likely attempt to leave on a good note. For instance, if they chose to lose the rest of their games the already upset fanbase would have an even worse fall off. As a result, there would be an even greater decline in the admiration of the club which would most likely carry on into next season. Which I assume the club does not want. I am in full agreement of the rest of your post. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 We keep reading and writing about increasing our odds of getting a good pick. It's not about where you pick in the draft, it's how you develop the pick! Totally agree with your opinion, as for your first post....maybe it all becomes a mute point sooner than later.....just remember I have a different opinion that yours, but I still respect your opinion (Solid!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Thank-you for the well thought out reply. In response to your first point: I am not assuming we will be making the playoffs at all. I was simply stating that losing on purpose is not an option for the GM. Considering that we are at the end of the season, from the business side of things, the organization would most likely attempt to leave on a good note. For instance, if they chose to lose the rest of their games the already upset fanbase would have an even worse fall off. As a result, there would be an even greater decline in the admiration of the club which would most likely carry on into next season. Which I assume the club does not want. I am in full agreement of the rest of your post. Cheers! I get your point and agree somewhat, and maybe living on the Island removes me from seeing the games live, but I do understand the economics, but I can guarantee, it will not matter next year whether we win the last 4 or not, if we sign a few UFA's, come out winning next year.....if we are loosing at the beginning of the season, it will not matter at all whether we lost our last 4 or not...the fan base will repond the same and not show up.......I get the not quitting......maybe in a day or 2, the points will be mute......Hope I can get on the golf course! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I get your point and agree somewhat, and maybe living on the Island removes me from seeing the games live, but I do understand the economics, but I can guarantee, it will not matter next year whether we win the last 4 or not, if we sign a few UFA's, come out winning next year.....if we are loosing at the beginning of the season, it will not matter at all whether we lost our last 4 or not...the fan base will repond the same and not show up.......I get the not quitting......maybe in a day or 2, the points will be mute......Hope I can get on the golf course! LOL : :D Just thinking here. A good example is the Leafs.......every year they plan for a parade, every year they are disapointed, yet they value their players very high......great fan base, yet they have a rope ready every spring. LOL I would hope ours is that strong! About the only thing I like about the Leafs ( Their belief! Not the rope! ) Maybe not! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Two things: Try convincing players like the Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa, etc. to not play. Maybe you get a guy playing at 90% and sit him, but someone without really any injury? Doubt it. You can't just call up whoever you want whenever you want. There are still roster limits to begin with, but also the Comets are fighting for a playoff spot themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Two things: Try convincing players like the Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa, etc. to not play. Maybe you get a guy playing at 90% and sit him, but someone without really any injury? Doubt it. You can't just call up whoever you want whenever you want. There are still roster limits to begin with, but also the Comets are fighting for a playoff spot themselves. Point #1. Great point......delicate to say the least.........I would never sit those guys unless injured.........but you can change up #5and 6 Dman and your 4th liners a little......then roll 4 lines.......admittedly, you have to respect your players, but you can change things up a little, and take away a few minutes from the better players by rolling those lines...........still a great point! #2 Hmmmm, I see the pitfall here! Still, isn't this the best time to test your young players.......again , I see your point.......I would still do it, but maybe this is the greatest pitfall to my idea....( I like the idea they are battling......but at the end if they are out....I am bringing them up)........Great points you bugger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Well, I really don't get it? GM Mike Gillis is paid to make the tough decisions and though I understand Tort's drive to win, Mike Gillis's decision is to be able to establish what the reality is and to make adjustments accordingly. Case in point, with 5 games left in the season, Mike asks himself and his staff, do we really have a realistic chance to make the playoffs. If the answer is yes, then full steam ahead. If however, the answer is an honest no, then the question is, what is best for the club? Now, last night LA and many other playoff clubs started resting players with nagging injuries, this happens every year, throughout the league. The win is not important, the message is "If we win good! But don't get injured!". I have heard it said on many NHL panels, and I would argue with anyone that says different. It is a reality! The Canucks on the other hand, (or rather Gillis) should be making different decisions, asking different questions. Specifically, do we want to throw away draft position by winning enough to take us out of the best draft position possible? Now, I am not saying don't try, I am saying this is the time to evaluate your farm system. Not on mass, but a few each game, and somewhat like those teams that are making the playoffs, If we win,so be it, but don't get bent out of shape if we play the Shroeders, Sauves, Archibalds, Mallets etc. a few more minutes than we normally do.That should be the message to Tort's. I not saying play them Kesler minutes, but maybe rotate 4 lines and see what they got! As Gillis should know, this season didn't work out as planned, but we start fresh next season, and we will know more if we evaluate, than if we don't, and a 6th place draft position is a much better position to be sitting in, if a top 5 pick drops. My opinion is, always try to control your own destiny, and adjust accordingly! Anyone agree with me? I agree with you. The team doesn't need to "tank", from Gillis down to the 4th line they just dont need to try their hardest to win. Just relax and have some fun, if they win a game that's fine, if they lose that's fine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzy Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Yet another tanking thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNeil Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I agree with you opey. Once there was no realistic chance to make the scp then we should insert all the youngsters we can. Good postSo then a team like Edmonton, who were realistically not making the playoffs in January.....they just start playing all their AHLers then? The fans pay top dollar for that? When do you draw the line?I'm fine with starting some AHLers against Calgary or Edmonton to end the season, since these are meaningless games. But our games against the Ducks and Avs aren't. Those 2 teams are jockeying for position, we owe it to the league to put out are best effort. In years were we have been jockeying for seeding we expect non playoff teams to play their best against the teams we are jockeying with. Who wants a league where the bottom 10 teams at the trade deadline, all try to lose or put out weak lineups for the last quarter of the season. Maybe they can just forfeit the last 4 games, and get a jump on summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I'm fine with starting some AHLers against Calgary or Edmonton to end the season, since these are meaningless games. But our games against the Ducks and Avs aren't. Those 2 teams are jockeying for position, we owe it to the league to put out are best effort And the league owes it to us to provide adequate on-ice officiating, but instead we get pieces of trash like Kelly Sutherland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exil3d Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Gillis is going to do whatever he thinks is best regardless of what anyone on here says. Markstrom is supposed to play at least one game so let's wait for that, Gillis may bring up some other players as well depending on if their teams have continued success in the playoffs or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Let me finish that off for you: "GM's are paid to GM, coaches are paid to coach, and players are paid to play". Sure management has a hint it's better off getting a high pick at this point but they don't say that directly. If they do, it's going to put a huge dent on the team reputation and players will leave and give the city and team a bad rep. It's not as easy as saying tank...you must be crazy if that's all it takes. Coaches want to give players strategies for the game and players want to win, that's the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Sparkle Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 as if jabroni fans know how being a GM really is. drop your controller for a moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linden17 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Hi, not trying to disrespect you on this, but many many many teams have done this through NHL history........recently (Last 20 years), Pitts, Edmonton,Chicago......2 out of those 3 became dynasties......dont even want to try and think of them all.......PS.....Ive played for a very long time at all different levels, and you are right, players won't tank and I would tell any of my coaches to go..themselves if they asked.......but that's not what I said......I said Gillis has steer the ship.....he makes the decisions....bring up a few rookies...see what happens.......roll all 4 lines......that's all..........NOT SIT KESLER OR HANK.......just roll 4 lines, with a couple of rookies in the line up. Evaluate! so pretty much do what we have the entire season because of injuries? Man canucks.com is getting hard to read. i see your point and all and forgive me for being negative. My point is that gillis likes to play the injury card a lot and we have pretty much had a lot of rookies up for a try out the whole year because of injuries. there comes a point where the good teams are seperated fron the real good teams and that comes down to management. teams like pittysburgh and chicago and others can deal with injuries because management has put together a strong base and back up. we however have tried to suck out every last drop of juice from the fruit that "eve" took from the forbidden tree. i know i went off topic but im sure im fitting right in with canucks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai604 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Two things: Try convincing players like the Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa, etc. to not play. Maybe you get a guy playing at 90% and sit him, but someone without really any injury? Doubt it. You can't just call up whoever you want whenever you want. There are still roster limits to begin with, but also the Comets are fighting for a playoff spot themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I agree Kes and Sedin's don't need their 25 min's let's see what we got in Jensen or whoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 At the beginning of each season you keep on your players for a few games that did the best in camp.Utica is a competitive playing environment.If you brought up young guys the fan base could say you are throwing in the towel.The Canucks have enough empty seats right now as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Well, I really don't get it? GM Mike Gillis is paid to make the tough decisions and though I understand Tort's drive to win, Mike Gillis's decision is to be able to establish what the reality is and to make adjustments accordingly. Case in point, with 5 games left in the season, Mike asks himself and his staff, do we really have a realistic chance to make the playoffs. If the answer is yes, then full steam ahead. If however, the answer is an honest no, then the question is, what is best for the club? Now, last night LA and many other playoff clubs started resting players with nagging injuries, this happens every year, throughout the league. The win is not important, the message is "If we win good! But don't get injured!". I have heard it said on many NHL panels, and I would argue with anyone that says different. It is a reality! The Canucks on the other hand, (or rather Gillis) should be making different decisions, asking different questions. Specifically, do we want to throw away draft position by winning enough to take us out of the best draft position possible? Now, I am not saying don't try, I am saying this is the time to evaluate your farm system. Not on mass, but a few each game, and somewhat like those teams that are making the playoffs, If we win,so be it, but don't get bent out of shape if we play the Shroeders, Sauves, Archibalds, Mallets etc. a few more minutes than we normally do.That should be the message to Tort's. I not saying play them Kesler minutes, but maybe rotate 4 lines and see what they got! As Gillis should know, this season didn't work out as planned, but we start fresh next season, and we will know more if we evaluate, than if we don't, and a 6th place draft position is a much better position to be sitting in, if a top 5 pick drops. My opinion is, always try to control your own destiny, and adjust accordingly! Anyone agree with me? Quit reading at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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