Draft Hype vs Reality

[grandmaster]

It makes me laugh when I see people wishing for unproven kids over NHL stars.

Some posters have asked to trade off Kesler and even the Sedins for higher picks.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, we need to get younger, but not this way.

Prospect kids are not guarantees and there is a huge difference from juniors to the big leagues.

An example of a young player the Canucks need to target would be the likes of Evander Kane. He is a proven player that scores and is young.

I would also like to remind some people that the Canucks drafting has been historically atrocious.

I'm not saying the draft means nothing, it is a key part of a team's structure. It is also not something to bank on (just ask the coilers)

[Absent Canuck]

Perhaps you should give a detailed explanation of what you would do rather than just complain about others suggestions.

[grandmaster]

Perhaps you should give a detailed explanation of what you would do rather than just complain about others suggestions.

Perhaps you didn't read about focus change to actual young proven NHL players like Kane?

[Absent Canuck]

Perhaps you didn't read about focus change to actual young proven NHL players like Kane?

I am pretty certain all 29 other GMs are also going to .........' target guys like Kane' too. You are not revealing some kind of new concept.

You need to describe what you would offer for Kane and why Winnipeg would accept that offer as opposed to the 28 other offers they may receive. Its hard for others to take your vague suggestion seriously unless you do.

[Canuck or Die]

Every "proven" player was just a prospect at one time. Sorry, but your reasons of getting rid of prospects is just pathetic. And no, Kane isn't as proven as some of you like to believe. He had one 30 goal season a couple years ago. He still has a ways to go.

You complain about hype then hype up CDC's flavour of the month because he is "the hometown boy."

[grandmaster]

I am pretty certain all 29 other GMs are also going to .........' target guys like Kane' too. You are not revealing some kind of new concept.

You need to describe what you would offer for Kane and why Winnipeg would accept that offer as opposed to the 28 other offers they may receive. Its hard for others to take your vague suggestion seriously unless you do.

Not vague at all. I mentioned how posters want to give away Kesler and even the Sedins for picks and in my thread I explained that the target should be PROVEN young NHL players. The cost would be high but better than banking on mere prospects.

We could go on with multiple scenario trades but that is not the main point of this thread.

[Canuck or Die]

LOL, we would need a hell of a lot more than Kane to make this team better. We don't have unlimited assets to get more. That's why we need to keep and develop our prospects instead of just throwing them away for the next shiny new toy, only for people like you to dump all over it when you get tired of it.

[hlinkas wrister]

No sane person could recommend trading proven Art Ross winners or 40 goal scorers just to "move up" in the draft. The only time that is good business is as a salary dump, which in another year or two could be a possibility for the Sedins, but for Kesler who is in his prime it would be absolute folly. kes is not the 40 goal scorer everybody thinks he should be but his total attributes make him worth one guaranteed success prospect and a first rounder (mid to high) all on his own.

[timberz21]

Lol your best example of a proven player is Evander Kane? The only thing he proven is that he is a headcase everywhere he goes.

And if the "kids" were garantied future NHL Stars, do you really think teams would trade them for "older" NHL Stars. No it's part of the Risk/Reward.

Dallas traded Iginla for Nieuwendyk, it got them the Cup and Iginala became an NHL Stars.

Boston traded Kessel for 2 draft picks with resulted in Seguin/Eriksson and Hamilton.

Pittsbrugh traded Jordan Staal with the main piece being Pouliot (8th overall). Don't know yet what he can do.

Anaheim traded Bobby Ryan for essentially a pick and ended up 2nd best team in the league.

I'm not against keeping or trading Kesler, but would you rather keep Kesler for a few years and finishing in the middle of the pack and losing him for nothing or something of less value in a few years or trading him now and maybe get a futur Getzlaf, Weber, Doughty, etc.

[Baka]

So instead of trading a proven player for a few prospects/picks that could turn into multiple stars or reliable core players you recommend the Canucks gut their own youth and talent to acquire 1 young proven player (IMO not even a star)?

[hlinkas wrister]

Lol your best example of a proven player is Evander Kane? The only thing he proven is that he is a headcase everywhere he goes.

And if the "kids" were garantied future NHL Stars, do you really think teams would trade them for "older" NHL Stars. No it's part of the Risk/Reward.

Dallas traded Iginla for Nieuwendyk, it got them the Cup and Iginala became an NHL Stars.

Boston traded Kessel for 2 draft picks with resulted in Seguin/Eriksson and Hamilton.

Pittsbrugh traded Jordan Staal with the main piece being Pouliot (8th overall). Don't know yet what he can do.

Anaheim traded Bobby Ryan for essentially a pick and ended up 2nd best team in the league.

I'm not against keeping or trading Kesler, but would you rather keep Kesler for a few years and finishing in the middle of the pack and losing him for nothing or something of less value in a few years or trading him now and maybe get a futur Getzlaf, Weber, Doughty, etc.

It has just as much to do with organizational needs and assets. If a team is stacked on the front or the back with players then some of them become marketable. If teams had to constantly trade their stars for unproven "kids" then GM's would almost never make trades, they would be paralysed by fear of failure.

[Azzy Mahmood]

The Tyler Seguin trade is what we should be aspiring to. Dallas acquired a top young player with fantastic potential, and he broke our for a huge season.

They gave up a top six forward good for 60-70 points (Loui Eriksson), a young RW who had a big breakout season (Reilly Smith), a budding young D man (Joe Morrow), and a young RW who has made a small impact (Matt Fraser).

In addition to Seguin, Dallas picked up the quintessential 3rd line veteran (Rich Peverley, unfortunately sidelined now), and a long-shot D man (Ryan Button).

So to acquire a top young player - who I would argue was better than Evander Kane is now - they gave up a 70pt top six winger, two important prospects and a lesser prospect. For a top star in the making and a perfect 3rd liner.

The equivalent trade, for a subdued and not-as-good-as-Seguin Evander Kane, would have to be Higgins + Jensen + Corrado for Kane and Michael Frolik.

Quite where this 6th overall + Horvat talk is coming from, God only knows.

[Dogbyte]

The answer is easy really. MG is an idiot for signing Edler when we already had so much money committed to D and unmovable players at that position. We really need to move a top 4 D, especially if we want to keep Tanev.

Then we trade for a guy like Kane with Edler, Hansen, Prospect/Pick. Instantly makes us way better even if Sauve is playing instead of Edler but realistically we should be able to find a guy in the $2-$3 range that can play.

I get your point about the draft. Everyone here is so hyped up. Ehlers, no Virtanen, no Dal Colle. Chances are none of these guys will play for several years so yeah a guy like Kane that is a young proven NHL'er is probably more valuable than those guys now. Not that I would trade our 6th for him but they will be sitting in the cupboard unavailable for use for several years most likely.

If that's the case we're going to remain uncompetitive without some major offensive upgrades ... we might as well trade Kesler for good youth now.

[hlinkas wrister]

The Tyler Seguin trade is what we should be aspiring to. Dallas acquired a top young player with fantastic potential, and he broke our for a huge season.

They gave up a top six forward good for 60-70 points (Loui Eriksson), a young RW who had a big breakout season (Reilly Smith), a budding young D man (Joe Morrow), and a young RW who has made a small impact (Matt Fraser).

In addition to Seguin, Dallas picked up the quintessential 3rd line veteran (Rich Peverley, unfortunately sidelined now), and a long-shot D man (Ryan Button).

So to acquire a top young player - who I would argue was better than Evander Kane is now - they gave up a 70pt top six winger, two important prospects and a lesser prospect. For a top star in the making and a perfect 3rd liner.

The equivalent trade, for a subdued and not-as-good-as-Seguin Evander Kane, would have to be Higgins + Jensen + Corrado for Kane and Michael Frolik.

Quite where this 6th overall + Horvat talk is coming from, God only knows.

You are right on the money here. The people on our side of the potential deal would possibly have to change (depending on Winni's needs), and no way in hell should we trade Horvat.

[Rypien37]

Why do we need proven players over prospects in a rebuild?

The whole point of a rebuild is holding/acquiring prospects and developing them internally.

[Dogbyte]

The Tyler Seguin trade is what we should be aspiring to. Dallas acquired a top young player with fantastic potential, and he broke our for a huge season.

They gave up a top six forward good for 60-70 points (Loui Eriksson), a young RW who had a big breakout season (Reilly Smith), a budding young D man (Joe Morrow), and a young RW who has made a small impact (Matt Fraser).

In addition to Seguin, Dallas picked up the quintessential 3rd line veteran (Rich Peverley, unfortunately sidelined now), and a long-shot D man (Ryan Button).

So to acquire a top young player - who I would argue was better than Evander Kane is now - they gave up a 70pt top six winger, two important prospects and a lesser prospect. For a top star in the making and a perfect 3rd liner.

The equivalent trade, for a subdued and not-as-good-as-Seguin Evander Kane, would have to be Higgins + Jensen + Corrado for Kane and Michael Frolik.

Quite where this 6th overall + Horvat talk is coming from, God only knows.

lol, are you really trying to equate Higgins to Eriksson? We don't have the pieces for this type of trade unless we trade Kesler, or a top 4 D.

Try Shinkaruk, Jensen, Corrado, and they may listen.

[asian player]

The draft is the only thing we (Canucks fans) have to look forward to this year. Don't rain on our parade.

Also, you're making it seem like prospects never pan out... We need to rebuild with young talent and build our own identity, not trade for locker room cancers like evander kane

[hlinkas wrister]

The answer is easy really. MG is an idiot for signing Edler when we already had so much money committed to D and unmovable players at that position. We really need to move a top 4 D, especially if we want to keep Tanev.

Then we trade for a guy like Kane with Edler, Hansen, Prospect/Pick. Instantly makes us way better even if Sauve is playing instead of Edler but realistically we should be able to find a guy in the $2-$3 range that can play.

I get your point about the draft. Everyone here is so hyped up. Ehlers, no Virtanen, no Dal Colle. Chances are none of these guys will play for several years so yeah a guy like Kane that is a young proven NHL'er is probably more valuable than those guys now. Not that I would trade our 6th for him but they will be sitting in the cupboard unavailable for use for several years most likely.

If that's the case we're going to remain uncompetitive without some major offensive upgrades ... we might as well trade Kesler for good youth now.

In all honesty Kesler is the only desirable commodity we have right now who could get us decent return. Teams looking to go all the way will look at him as a solid 2C who wins faceoffs and kills penalties and can score 25 goals a year (and his contract is cap friendly). For us, with Santorelli and Matthias and Horvat, I think we can replace his 25 goals a year and we still have no shortage of good penalty killers. Replacing his faceoff win percentage- not so easy. But I think if we could flip him for a future power play quarterback prospect and a first rounder, its a chance worth taking.

[Gurru991]

It has to be a blend of both things, retaining an experienced core while adding youth and this has to be ongoing if a club is to stay healthy. Wholesale changes ( trade Kesler, Beiksa, Edler & the Sedins) just do not work. This club needs a retool, not a ground up rebuild.

[TOMapleLaughs]

All depends on the draft year. 2014 is weak. 2015 is strong.

We'll still get a good player in this draft, but potentially a GREAT one next year.

I certainly hope that's the plan. Because we have some serious catching up to do if we're to contend again.