Jews being told to 'register' in Ukrainian city

[CB007]

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/17/5624696/anti-semitic-flier-ukraine

The conflict in Ukraine was dangerous enough before people started talking about rounding up Jews.

THERE'S AN ONGOING PROPAGANDA WAR OVER ANTI-SEMITISM IN UKRAINE

On Tuesday of this week, a flier, sourced to pro-Russian separatists surfaced in the Ukrainian and Israelimedia. Purportedly distributed by "three unidentified men wearing balaclavas and carrying the flag of the Russian Federation," the flier threatened Jews in Ukraine's Donetsk region with expulsion unless they registered themselves and their family with the local government. Scary stuff.

But it's hard to actually know what's going on. Donetsk, both a large city and a region, is the center of thearmed pro-Russian movement in eastern Ukraine, where the Ukrainian government is currently waging a military campaign to put down. So here's a brief rundown of what we do and don't know about the flier so far.

It's sourced to this guy

Tugrul Cam/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images

That's Denis Pushilin on the left, the Chairman of the Donetsk People's Republic — the name the pro-Russian separatists have given to themselves. If that's true, then compiling a registry of Jews would reflect the official policy of these pro-Russian militants, who are also believed to be backed by the Kremlin.

But the pro-Russian side denies it

Two different sources say Pushilin and his forces deny any connection to the fliers. According to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, Pushilin claims they're a "provocation" aimed at discrediting his side.

But Yedioth Ahronoth, an Israeli newspaper, is reporting something slightly different. Pushilin, in their account, "confirmed that the flyers were distributed by his organization, but denied any connection to the leaflet's content." That would suggest that while persecuting Jews wasn't the official policy of the separatists, there are significant anti-Semitic elements inside their hierarchy — which could spell trouble for Ukrainian Jews in Donetsk if the region wins its independence or joins Russia.

The flier may not even be real. The Anti-Defamation League told Mashable that "we are skeptical about the flier's authenticity." The National Conference Supporting Jews, a regional Jewish rights group, believes it's a hoax. And The New Republic's Julia Ioffe, who knows the region well, believes the pro-Russian forces are extremely unlikely to risk losing supporters by threatening the Jewish minority.

The pamphlet references a Ukrainian nationalist responsible for the murder of Jews

The pamphlet's principal grievance against Ukrainian Jews is that they support the anti-Russian Ukrainian central government. They call that government the "Banderite junta" in the capital of Kyiv. That's a reference to Stepan Bandera, a Ukrainian nationalist leader from World War II who remains a potent and controversial symbol in today's Ukraine.

Banner of Bandera at a Ukrainian sporting event in 2010. Wikimedia Commons

Pro-Russian Ukrainians despise Bandera, because he allied with the Nazis to expel Russian troops from Ukraine. However, he's also a symbol of anti-Jewish hate: Bandera's troops helped the SS slaughter Jews during their invasion of Ukraine. He ultimately turned on the Nazis when they wouldn't let him run an independent Ukraine, but from the Jewish point of view, it was too little, too late.

So for Jews, being tarred as Banderites is doubly disturbing: it at once makes them a target of Russian nationalists and reminds them of a time when Ukrainian Jews were being killed en masse.

There's an ongoing propaganda war over anti-Semitism in Ukraine, but the Russian side is more to blame

Part of the reason this flier is such a big deal is that Russia and Ukraine are both using accusations of anti-Semitism as part of their attempt to portray the other side as in the wrong. The memory of World War Two, and of the devastation Nazi Germany caused their countries, is still fresh in both. Russia alleges that fascist supporters of the new Ukrainian government are threatening Jews, while the Ukrainians say the same about pro-Russian separatists.

So far, there's very little evidence that the Ukrainian side is persecuting Jews. As Igor Volsky and Hayes Brown at ThinkProgress note, a recent UN report found could not find much evidence substantiating the Russian charges.

"Nobody is afraid of fascists," east Ukrainian rabbi Shmuel Kaminezki told the New York TImes. "But everyone is afraid of war with Russia."

Is Russia going to invade eastern Ukraine?

It looked for a few weeks like Russia was going to stop at Crimea, but there are growing reasons to worry that Russia may also try to annex some parts of eastern Ukraine as well. Russia has amassed lots of troops on the border with eastern Ukraine, and Western leaders are taking this seriously enough that the chief of NATO publicly warned Russia against "intervening further."

Since early April, increasingly numerous and well-armed pro-Russia separatists (almost certainly backed by the Kremlin at least in part) have seized government buildings in eastern Ukrainian regional capitals. This is unnervingly similar to what happened in Crimea. These regions border Russia and have some of Ukraine's largest Russian-speaking populations, so if Russia were to advance further, this is where they would go.

As in Crimea, Ukraine's eastern regions tend to have a lot of native Russian-speakers who did not support the protests that ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych in February. Also as in Crimea, there are deep historical connections to Russia. Western leaders have said that Russia would "face consequences" for invading further but have not declared an intention to defend Ukraine's frail army against Russia's far larger military.

The reason that this is so dangerous is that Vladimir Putin has repeatedly warned Ukraine not to send security forces against the separatists, subtly hinting that he may intervene military if violence spirals, effectively forcing Ukraine into an impossible choice between simply allowing the separatists to secede or cracking down and risking a full Russian invasion. It's possible that Putin is bluffing to try to force Ukraine to adopt a federal government system (here's why Moscow wants this so badly), but it's also not impossible that this could spiral into a Russian invasion.

Still, Russia and Putin would be risking an awful lot by invading. It's not just that the US and EU appear very willing to impose tougher sanctions at a time when the Russian economy can't afford any big blows. Russia would risk alienating its last remaining allies, which have appeared none too pleased with the Crimea annexation. Worst of all for Russia, it's possible that dividing Ukraine into west and east would send the western half permanently out of Russia's orbit. It's not clear that the cost-benefit works for Putin, but he has his own logic.

[CB007]

In my humble opinion this is indeed a smear campaign against the pro-Russian side. Though of course I don't really know.

[DarthNinja]

In my humble opinion this is indeed a smear campaign against the pro-Russian side. Though of course I don't really know.

It could be a smear campaign, it could be true, which are both bad...or it could be somewhere in between.

Not sure how many know about this for example:

He calls his troops “the Blue Helmets of Maidan,” but brown is the color of the headgear worn by Delta — the nom de guerre of the commander of a Jewish-led militia force that participated in the Ukrainian revolution. Under his helmet, he also wears a kippah.

Delta, a Ukraine-born former soldier in the Israel Defense Forces, spoke to JTA Thursday on condition of anonymity. He explained how he came to use combat skills he acquired in the Shu’alei Shimshon reconnaissance battalion of the Givati infantry brigade to rise through the ranks of Kiev’s street fighters. He has headed a force of 40 men and women — including several fellow IDF veterans — in violent clashes with government forces.

Several Ukrainian Jews, including Rabbi Moshe Azman, one of the country’s claimants to the title of chief rabbi, confirmed Delta’s identity and role in the still-unfinished revolution.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114

[TOMapleLaughs]

Wait, i thought the pro-west side was run by neonazis?

[CB007]

Wait, i thought the pro-west side was run by neonazis?

Exactly.

[PhillipBlunt]

Not sure if I believe this at all.

[Lancaster]

I guess it's everyone hating the Jews again?

[SabreFan1]

I guess it's everyone hating the Jews again?

If it turns out to be true then hopefully they'll be smart and emigrate here to the U.S. or over to Israel.

[key2thecup]

In my humble opinion this is indeed a smear campaign against the pro-Russian side. Though of course I don't really know.

Yeah, it's funny how the media said nothing about the Svoboda party, literally neo-nazi....

[taxi]

Wait, i thought the pro-west side was run by neonazis?

It's a largely ethnic conflict. Both sides will contain ethnic nationalist elements.

There are many neo-Nazis in Russia. There were many in the Ukraine too.

[drummer4now]

It's a largely ethnic conflict. Both sides will contain ethnic nationalist elements.

There are many neo-Nazis in Russia. There were many in the Ukraine too.

Good points.. But I thought the Russian oligarchs had their hands in this conflict? Aren't many of the wealthy oligarch also Jewish like Mikhail Fridman whose originally from Ukraine?

[GLASSJAW]

I guess it's everyone hating the Jews again?

don't have to look far. there are a few posters who say some really odd, vaguely antisemitic things around here, sometimes

[drummer4now]

don't have to look far. there are a few posters who say some really odd, vaguely antisemitic things around here, sometimes

Question. Im no expert of the whole anti-Semitic debate whats classified as a anti-Semitic etc.., but say someone from Palestine or Syria who is of Semitic origin and different religion. Would they still be classified as anti-Semitic if they hated jews? I always hear people from the levant region saying oh your anti-Semitic, but aren't many from that area of Semitic origin? or does Semitic only mean Jewish nowadays..

[GLASSJAW]

it's just the jews, homie

[DarthNinja]

it's just the jews, homie

In reality it actually seems truly antisemitic in and of itself to exclude actual semites from antisemitism.

[Ghostsof1915]

Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.

Especially morons.

[avelanch]

so is Putin officially the new hitler? or are we waiting for a little longer before bestowing that title?

I don't know why he wants the Ukraine anyway, everyone knows the Ukraine is weak.

[Robongo]

so is Putin officially the new hitler? or are we waiting for a little longer before bestowing that title?

I don't know why he wants the Ukraine anyway, everyone knows the Ukraine is weak.

As others have said, this is nothing more than propaganda . It's been proven to be a hoax , and even the Jews in the area realize that it's most likely a plot by the illegitimate Coup government .

And Russia "wants" Ukraine because it's very strategically important with its navy bases on the Black Sea. Not to mention it's very rich in oil and natural gas and the western corporations like Chevron are licking their chops trying to get a piece. Most of the oil fields are in the east close to Russia so they want to maintain control over them.

[prana16]

As others have said, this is nothing more than propaganda . It's been proven to be a hoax , and even the Jews in the area realize that it's most likely a plot by the illegitimate Coup government .

And Russia "wants" Ukraine because it's very strategically important with its navy bases on the Black Sea. Not to mention it's very rich in oil and natural gas and the western corporations like Chevron are licking their chops trying to get a piece. Most of the oil fields are in the east close to Russia so they want to maintain control over them.

Yes its just unthinkable that Pro Russians and Russians don't like jews.

There is a reason half the people in israel sound like Borat and its not because the Russians love jews.

So far we got russia invading a sovereign country and annexing part of it, trying to stir up conflict so they can annex more, then asking all the Joooo's to register... But the other guys are the Nazis

[Robongo]

Yes its just unthinkable that Pro Russians and Russians don't like jews.

There is a reason half the people in israel sound like Borat and its not because the Russians love jews.

So far we got russia invading a sovereign country and annexing part of it, trying to stir up conflict so they can annex more, then asking all the Joooo's to register... But the other guys are the Nazis

Still watching foxnews and CNN are we? Here, I'll enlighten you: