Canucks draft comparison

[rb4u]

All this talk about potential GM candidates and much has been mentioned about the superior drafting records of the Bruins organization vs the Canucks. How a certain GM candidate (Benning) who joined Boston in the 2006 season has an eye for talent and will turn our fortunes around. Media hype? Or this there actual truth behind all the chatter? I don't profess to be an NHL insider, so the best resources I could dig up was from HockeyFuture.com as well as HockeyDB.com. Surprised to see the Bruins currently rated 18th out of 30 teams for their farm system, with the Canucks at 24th.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-rankings/

I've compiled the following draft lists by year to give a easier side by side comparison between the teams.

2002 BOS (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 29th Hannu Toivonen 61 0 0 0 10

2) 56th Vladislav Yevseyev NA

4) 130 Jan Kubista NA

5) 153 Peter Hmerlik NA

7) 228th Dimitri Utkin NA

8) 259th Yan Stastny 91 6 10 16 58

9) 290th Pavel Frolov NA

2002 VAN (3 in 3 rounds)

2) 49th Kirill Koltsov NA

2) 55th Denis Grot NA

3) 68th Brett Skinner 11 0 0 0 4

3) 83th Lukas Mensator NA

5) 151th Rob McVicar 1 0 0 0 0

7) 214th Marc-Andre Roy NA

7) 223rd Ilya Krikunov NA

8) 247th Matt Violin NA

9) 277th Thomas Nussli NA

9) 278th Matt Gens NA

2002. A miserable drafting year for both teams. What more can be said? (slight edge to BRUINS)

2003 BOS (3 in 3 rounds)

1) 21st Mark Stuart 497 21 51 72 560

2) 45th Patrice Bergeron 659 183 312 495 223

3) 66th Masi Marjamaki 1 0 0 0 0

4) 107th Byron Bitz 97 10 12 22 65

4) 118th Frank Rediker NA

4) 129th Patrik Valcak NA

6) 183rd Nate Thompson 391 39 46 85 199

8) 247th Benoit Mondou NA

2003 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 23rd Ryan Kesler 655 182 211 393 594

2) 61th Marc-Andre Bernier NA

4) 111th Brandon Nolan 6 0 1 1 0

4) 128th Ty Morris NA

5) 160th Nicklas Danielson NA

6) 190th Chad Brownlee NA

7) 222nd Francios-Pierre Guentte NA

8) 252nd Sergei Topol NA

2003. I was surprised by the "success" rate considering how deep the 2003 draft was hyped up by the media. (BRUINS)

2004 BOS (2 in 3 rounds)

2) 63rd David Krejci 504 110 268 378 186

2) 64th Martins Karsums 24 1 5 6 6

4) 108th Ashton Rome NA

5) 134th Kris Versteeg 412 102 139 241 242

5) 160th Ben Walter 24 1 0 1 6

7) 224th Matt Hunwick 292 16 51 67 116

2004 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 26th Cory Schneider 143 0 6 6 4

3) 91st Alex Edler 494 58 170 228 287

4) 125th Andrew Sarauer NA

5) 159th Mike Brown 337 17 14 31 666

6) 189th Julien Ellis NA

9) 287th Jannik Hansen 389 61 90 151 174

2004. I would consider this an excellent year by the Canucks scouting department, although the Bruins didn't have a 1st rounder. (WASH)

2005 BOS (3 in 3 rounds)

1) 22nd Matt Lashoff 74 15 16 59

2) 39th Petr Kalus 11 4 1 5 6

3) 83rd Mikko Lehtonen 2 0 0 0 0

4) Vladimir Sobotka 381 35 88 123 282

5) 154th Wacey Rabbit NA

6) 172nd Lukas Vantuch NA

7) 217th Brock Bradford NA

2005 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 10th Luc Bourdon 36 2 0 2 24

2) 51st Mason Raymond 456 99 124 223 140

4) 114th Alexander Vincent NA

5) 138th Matt Butcher NA

6) 185th Kris Fredheim 3 0 0 0 0

7) 205th Mario Bliznak 6 1 0 1 0

* FA Chris Tanev 156 8 19 27 20

2005. Another year that could have been a big win vs the Bruins if not for the unfortunate tragedy with Luc Bourdon. (CANUCKS)

2006 BOS (4 in 3 rounds)

1) 5th Phil Kessel 586 222 237 459 166

2) 37th Yuri Alexandrov NA

2) 50th Milan Lucic 485 121 177 298 691

3) 71st Brad Marchand 300 92 94 186 249

5) 128th Andrew Bodnarchik 5 0 0 0 0

6) 158th Levi Nelson NA

2006 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 14th Michael Grabner 283 87 55 142 54

3) 82nd Daniel Rahimi NA

6) 163rd Sergei Shirokov 8 1 0 1 2

6) 167th Juraj Simek NA

7) 197th Evan Fuller NA

* Trade Jeremy Welsh 7.0C

2006. First year that AGM Benning was on the job. Canucks had 2 picks vs the Bruins 4 in the first 3 rounds. Outright win by Boston with Kessel, Lucic and Marchand. We wouldn't have had a chance at either since we traded away our 2nd (thanks Nonis!). Picking top 5 does give a distinctive advantage in securing an impact player, especially if it isn't a deep draft. (BRUINS by a landslide)

2007 BOS (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 8th Zach Hamill 20 0 4 4 4

2) 35th Tommy Cross 6.5C

5) 130th Denis Reul NA

6) 159th Alain Goulet NA

7) 189th Jordan Knackstedt NA

2007 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 25th Patrick White NA

2) 33rd Taylor Ellington NA

5) 145th Charles-Antonie Messier NA

5) 146th Iiya Kablukov NA

6) 176th Taylor Matson NA

7) 206th Dan Gendur NA

* FA Kellan Lain 6.0D

2007. Miserable years for both team. (WASH)

2008 BOS (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 16th Joe Colborne 96 11 23 34 40

3) 77th Michael Hutchinson 3 0 0 0 0

4) 97th Jamie Arniel 1 0 0 0 0

6) 173rd Nicolas Tremblay NA

7) 197th Mark Goggin NA

* Trade David Warsofsky 6.0B

2008 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 10th Cody Hodgson 211 55 66 121 50

2) 41st Yann Sauve 8 0 0 0 0 6.5C

5) 131st Prabhi Rai NA

6) 161st Mats Froshaug NA

7) 191st Morgan Clark NA

* FA Joacim Eriksson 7.0C

* FA Darren Archibald 6.5C

2008. Top 10 pick and the beginning of the GMMG era. (Slight edge to the CANUCKS)

2009 BOS

1) 25th Jordan Caron 123 12 16 28 60

2) 86th Ryan Button NA

4) 112th Lane MacDonald 21 2 2 4 36

6) 176th Tyler Randell 5.0C

7) 206th Ben Sexton 6.0C

* Trade Adam Morrison 5.5C

* Trade Alexande Fallstrom 6.5C

2009 VAN

1) 22nd Jordan Schroeder 56 6 9 15 6 7.0C

2) 53rd Anton Rodin NA

3) 83rd Kevin Connauton 36 1 7 8 16

4) 113rd Jeremy Price NA

5) 143rd Peter Andersson 6.5C

6) 173rd Joe Cannata 6.5C

7) 187th Steve Anthony NA

* Trade Jeff Costello 6.0D

* FA Ronalds Kenins 6.0D

2009. Pretty forgettable year for both teams, especially us missing out on Ryan OReilly at 33rd. (WASH)

2010 BOS

1) 2nd Tyler Seguin 283 93 112 205 82

2) 31st Jared Knight 6.5C

2) 45th Ryan Spooner 27 0 11 11 6 7.5C

4) 97th Craig Cunnigham 2 0 0 0 6.5C

5) 135th Justin Florek 4 1 1 2 0 6.0C

6) 165th Zane Gothberg 7.0C

7) 195th Maxim Chudinov 7.5F

7) 210 Zach Trotman 6.5C

* Trade Rob Flick 6.5C

* FA Chris Casto 6.5D

* FA Torey Krug 82 14 28 42 28

2010 VAN

4) 115th Patrick McNally 7.0D

5) 145th Adam Polasek NA

6) 175th Alex Friesen 6.5D

7) 205th Sawyer Hannay NA

* FA Michael Zalewski 6.5D

* FA Jeremie Blain 7.0C

2010. Top 2 pick in Seguin. Good drafting or a function of draft order? (BRUINS)

2011 BOS

1) 9th Dougie Hamilton 106 12 29 41 54

2) 40th Alexander Khokhlachev 1 0 0 0 2 7.5C

3) 81st Anthony Camara 7.0C

4) 121st Brian Ferlin NA 7.0D

5) 151st Rob OGara 6.5C

6) 181st Lar Volden NA

* Trade Joe Morrow 7.5C

2011 VAN

1) 29th Nicklas Jensen 19 3 3 6 10 7.5C

3) 71st David Honzik NA

3) 90th Alexandre Greiner 7.0D

4) 101st Joseph Labate 6.5C

4) 120th Ludwig Blomstrad 6.0C

5) 150th Frankie Corrado 18 1 0 1 4 7.0C

6) 180th Pathrik Westerholm NA

7) 210th Henrik Tommernes 7.0D

2011. Looks like we might have 2 players in Jensen and Corrado. Can someone pipe in about the Boston prospects? (QUESTION MARK)

2012 BOS

1) 24th Malcom Subban NA 8.0C

3) 85th Matt Grzelcyk 7.0C

5) 131st Seth Griffith 7.0C

5) 145th Cody Payne NA

6) 175th Matthew Benning 5.0C

7) 205th Colton Hargrove 5.0C

* FA Niklas Svedberg 6.5B

* FA Kevan Miller 6.0A

2012 VAN

1) 26th Brendan Gaunce 7.0C

2) 57th Alexandre Mallet 6.5C

5) 147th Ben Hutton 6.5C

6) 177th Wesley Myron 6.0D

7) 207th Matthew Beattie 6.0D

* FA Evan McEneny 6.0C

* FA Dane Fox 6.0C

2012. Looks like we can only count on Gaunce on being a player, while Bruins might have 2 if not 3 useful players. (BRUINS)

2013 BOS

2) 60th Linus Arnesson 6.5C

3) 90th Peter Cehlarik 7.0C

4) 120th Ryan Fitzgerald 7.5D

5) 150th Wiley Sherman 6.0C

6) 180th Anton Blidh 6.0C

7) 211th Mitchell Dempsey 5.5C

2013 VAN

1) 9th Bo Horvat 7.5C

1) 24th Hunter Shinkaruk 7.5D

2) 85th Cole Cassels 6.5C

4) 115th Jordan Subban 6.5D

5) 145th Anton Cederholm 6.0C

6) 175th Mike Williamson 6.0D

7) 205th Miles Liberati 6.5D

2013. Roles are reversed as teams are trending in different directions as Bruins make a push for the Cup by giving up their 1st rounder and Canucks trying to restock the cupboards. (CANUCKS)

What I have learnt spending all this time crunching the numbers? Other than 2006 when the Bruins struck the mother load with their two 2nd rounders (Lucic & Marchand), drafting between the 2 teams has been a lot closer than most media types would have you believe. Drafting SuperStars were more a function of draft order (Kessel @ 5th and Seguin @ 2nd overall) than better scouting department. 2010-2013 is still too early to call it one way or the other. Overall the team that had the highest pick almost always landed the better player (please don't tell me that the Canucks could have screwed up drafting 5th in 2006 and 2nd in 2010).

It is no coincidence that most of the teams with the best farm teams are also the ones with the worst records over the same span. All teams (other than the Oilers and the Islanders) eventually stock up enough talent (after extended down cycles) to contend and challenge for the Cup. At their peak, they almost always sacrifice depth in their farm system to make that finally push. Only 3 teams deviate from the norm.

Anaheim, Detroit and Chicago.

Three perennial powerhouses with farm teams ranked 3rd, 9th and 10th respectively. Might I suggest we might want to look closer at raiding the front office of Anaheim or Chicago (Dallas having taken Nill) instead of simply buying into the hype of building via the "Boston model"? Not to say that Benning isn't the man for the job just to make sure that we don't narrow the search parameters and be blinded by the media noise...

[Neversummer]

Lots and lots of info ... thanks for the research but may I kindly ask you to be more concise in the future and get to the point. More people will read your post. I skimmed to your conclusion in the last paragraph but thanks again for looking that up.

[mpt]

Drafting comes down more to the scouts then the assistant GM

Compare Bennings record drafting for the Ducks and Sabres.

The Canucks NA drafting has been pretty terrible for a long time, maybe because no one is ever fired, same guys year after year.

[Sergei Shirokov]

I actually looked in to this very topic a few days ago....comparing Boston's drafting to Vancouver's in the last few years. Surprisingly, there wasn't as big a gap as people seem to exaggerate. Boston was gift wrapped Seguin and Hamilton, two major cornerstone pieces for their drafting record. But, other than that, 2007 was a dud which is similar to Vancouver's. 2008 was a pretty big dud for Boston. 2009 was okay but not very good. And 2010 is still too early to really evaluate, but there appears to be no grand slams.

[apollo]

Extremely well said.

Benning is not a good choice. We have to raid from Anaheim or Chicago. Not Boston... they've been a team benefiting from a weak eastern conference and have walks in the park to the finals. In 2011 they played in 3 non physical series. Then relatively fresh vs the Canucks

[rb4u]

Extremely well said.

Benning is not a good choice. We have to raid from Anaheim or Chicago. Not Boston... they've been a team benefiting from a weak eastern conference and have walks in the park to the finals. In 2011 they played in 3 non physical series. Then relatively fresh vs the Canucks

Give credit when credit is due. Tipping point for that series was Chara & Thomas, 2 players we had no answer for...

[Peaches]

Extremely well said.

Benning is not a good choice. We have to raid from Anaheim or Chicago. Not Boston... they've been a team benefiting from a weak eastern conference and have walks in the park to the finals. In 2011 they played in 3 non physical series. Then relatively fresh vs the Canucks

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen...

[HunterHorvatBure]

Great read, thanks !

[The-Impersonator]

You should do a comparison of Vancouver vs Detroit's drafting history.

[SealTheDeal]

Honestly, looking back at the draft records and games played of the last 9 years, the Canucks drafted pretty well during the Gillis era considering where we were drafting. You look at Nonis and Burke prior and the thing that jumps out most is how few picks we were actually left with each year (and some extreemly questionable early round picks by Nonis). When you consider Gillis' success with college free agent signings, I think it is really hard to fault him for the quality of the prospects currently in the system. The players the Canucks are currently missing are in that 23-26 year old age range - that would be mostly the Nonis era. Admittedly he traded away Grabner, but he's not doing much these days, and maybe he could've done better than Schroeder.

For all of the people calling for our scouts heads, I just don't see huge failure there. Should we improve if we can? Of course. But there are only a handful of late round gems every year, and the canucks have done about as well as any other team with getting them. Edler 3rd round, Corrado 5th, Hansen 9th. Cederholm and Cassels look like very good picks. And every team has early round busts too.

[canacks1970]

Extremely well said.

Benning is not a good choice. We have to raid from Anaheim or Chicago. Not Boston... they've been a team benefiting from a weak eastern conference and have walks in the park to the finals. In 2011 they played in 3 non physical series. Then relatively fresh vs the Canucks

If the Bruins were in such a weak conference then the Canucks should have won the cup period. Boston had to go seven games against Tampa in the ECF. We had a couple more days then Boston. So no Boston wasn't relatively fresh. Vancouver would have been more fresh had they put away Chicago and Nashville a lot sooner.

So Benning isn't a good choice compare to whom? You do know he was pretty good track record in Buffalo and Anaheim before going to Boston.

[Alex Burrows 14]

Most great teams have tanked and got at least 1 top 5 pick and now have a franchise player and a dynasty. Aka Chicago

[rb4u]

You should do a comparison of Vancouver vs Detroit's drafting history.

2002 DET (4 players. Incredible considering they started without a 1st rounder!)

2) 58th Jiri Hudler 526 114 181 295 198

2) 63rd Tomas Fleischmann 515 115 168 283 156

3) 95th Valtteri Filppula 558 125 184 309 178

4) 131st Johan Berggren NA

5) 166th Logan Koopmans NA

6) 197th Jimmy Cuddihy NA

7) 229th Derek Meech 144 4 13 17 45

8) 260th Pierre-Olivier Beaulieu NA

9) 262nd Christian Soderstrom NA

10) 291st Jonathan Ericsson 325 14 54 68 260

2003 DET (2 useful players)

2) 64th Jim Howard 285 0 5 5 18

4) 132nd Kyle Quincey 375 23 88 111 356

5) 164th Ryan Oulahen NA

6) 170th Andreas Sundin NA

6) 194th Stefan Blom NA

7) 226th Tomas Kollar NA

8) 258th Vladmir Kutny NA

9) 289th Mikael Johansson NA

2004 DET

3) 97th Johan Franzen 567 180 167 347 369

4) 128th Evan McGrath NA

5) 151st Sergei Kolosov NA

5) 162nd Tyler Haskins NA

6) 192nd Anton Axelsson NA

7) 226th Steve Covington NA

8) 257th Gennady Stolyarov NA

9) 290th Nils Backstrom NA

2005 DET

1) 19th Jakub Kindl 213 9 40 49 113

2) 42nd Justin Abdelkader 327 38 50 88 225

3) 80th Christofer Lofberg NA

4) 103rd Mattias Ritola 43 4 5 9 17

5) 132nd Darren Helm 291 44 59 103 68

5) 137th Johan Ryno NA

5) 151st Jeff May NA

6) 175th Juho Mielonen NA

7) 214th Bretton Stamler NA

2006 DET

2) 41st Cory Emmerton 139 12 9 21 22

2) 47th Shawn Matthias 330 51 53 104 121

2) 62nd Dick Axelsson NA

3) 92nd Daniel Larsson NA

6) 182nd Jan Mursak 46 2 2 4 8

7) 191st Nick Oslund NA

7) 212nd Logan Pyett NA

2007 DET

1) 27th Brendan Smith 119 6 28 34 117

3) 88th Joakim Andersson 108 11 14 25 20

5) 148th Randy Cameron NA

6) 178th Zack Torquato NA

7) 208th Bryan Rufenach NA

* FA Luke Glendening 5.0B

2008 DET

1) 30th Tom McCollum 1 0 0 0 0

3) 91st Max Nicastro 5.5C

4) 121st Gustav Nyquist 97 32 29 61 18

5) 151st Julien Cayer NA

6) 181st Stephan Johnston NA

7) 211st Jesper Samuelsson NA

2009 DET

2) 32nd Landon Ferraro 4 0 0 0 2 6.5C

2) 60th Tomas Tatar 100 24 23 47 34

3) 75th Andrej Nestrasil 5.0C

3) 90th Gleason Fournier 5.5C

5) 150th Nick Jensen 6.0C

6) 180th Mitch Callahan 1 0 0 0 0 6.0C

7) 210th Adam Almquist 2 1 0 1 0 6.5C

* FA Trevor Parkes 5.5C

* FA William Coetzee 5.5C

2010 DET

1) 21st Riley Sheahan 44 9 15 21 6 7.0C

2) 51st Calle Jarnkrok 12 2 7 9 4

3) 81st Louis-Marc Aubry 6.5D

4) 111st Teemu Pulkkinen 3 0 0 0 2 7.0C

5) 141st Petr Mrazek 11 0 0 0 0 8.0C

6) 171st Brooks Macek

7) 201st Ben Marshall 6.0C

* FA Jared Coreau 6.0C

2011 DET

2) 35th Tomas Jurco 36 8 7 15 14 7.5C

2) 48th Xavier Ouellet 4 0 0 0 2 7.0C

2) 55th Ryan Sproul 1 0 0 0 0 7.0C

3) 85th Alan Quine NA

4) 115th Marek Tvrdon 6.5C

5) 145th Philippe Hudon 5.0C

5) 146th Mattias Backman 6.5C

6) 175th Richard Nedomlel 5.5C

7) 205th Alexey Marchenko 6.5C

2012 DET

2) 49th Martin Frk 7.0D

3) 80th Jake Paterson 6.0C

4) 110th Andreas Athanasiou 7.0C

5) 140th Mike McKee 6.0C

6) 170th James De Haas 5.5C

7) 200 Rasmus Bodin 5.5B

2013 DET

1) 20th Anthony Mantha 8.0C

2) 48th Zach Nastasiuk 6.5C

2) 58th Tyler Bertuzzi 6.0D

3) 79th Mattas Janmark-Nylen 7.0D

4) 109th David Pope 6.0D

5) 139th Mitch Wheaton 6.0C

6) 169th Marc McNulty 5.5C

7) 199th Hampus Melen 5.5D

[rb4u]

So Benning isn't a good choice compare to whom? You do know he was pretty good track record in Buffalo and Anaheim before going to Boston.

1998 BUF

1) 18th Dmitri Kalinin 539 36 126 162 321

2) 34th Andrew Peters 229 4 3 7 650

2) 47th Norm Milley 29 2 4 6 12

3) 77th Mike Pandolfo 3 0 0 0 0

5) 137th Aaron Goldade NA

6) 164th Ales Kotalik 542 136 148 284 348

7) 191st Brad Moran 8 1 2 3 4

8) 218th David Moravec 1 0 0 0 0

9) 249th Edo Terglav NA

1998 VAN

1) 4th Bryan Allen 710 29 105 134 833

2) 31st Artem Chubarov 228 25 33 58 40

3) 68th Jarkko Ruutu 652 58 84 142 1078

3) 81st Justin Morrison NA

4) 90th Regan Darby NA

5) 140th David Jonsson NA

6) 149th Paul Cabana NA

7) 177th Vince Malts NA

8) 204th Graig Mischier NA

8) 219th Curtis Valentine NA

9) 232nd Jason Metcalfe NA

1998 [slight edge to CANUCKS] drafting 14 spots ahead of Sabres

1999 BUF

1) 20th Barrett Heisten 10 0 0 0 2

2) 35th Milan Bartovic 50 3 14 17 26

2) 55th Doug Janik 190 3 16 19 154

2) 64th Mike Zigomanis 197 21 19 40 89

3) 73rd Tim Preston NA

4) 117th Karel Mosovsky NA

5) 138th Ryan Miller 559 0 9 9 24

5) 146th Matt Kinch NA

7) 206th Bret DeCecco NA

8) 235th Brad Self NA

9) 263rd Craig Brunei NA

1999 VAN

1) 2nd Daniel Sedin 979 307 498 805 420

1) 3rd Henrik Sedin 1010 193 649 842 576

3) 69th Rene Vydareny NA

5) 129th Ryan Thorpe NA

6) 172nd Josh Reed NA

7) 189th Kevin Swanson NA

8) 218th Markus Kankaanpera NA

9) 271st Darrell Hay NA

1999. Twins. Enough said. [CANUCKS]

2000 BUF

1) 15th Artem Kryukov NA

2) 48th Gerard Dicaire NA

4) 111st Ghyslain Rousseau NA

5) 149th Denis Denisov NA

7) 213rd Vasily Bizyayev NA

7) 220th Paul Gaustad 591 83 128 211 672

8) 258th Sean McMorrow 1 0 0 0 0

9) 277th Ryan Courtney NA

2000 VAN

1) 23rd Nathan Smith 26 0 0 0 0

3) 71st Thatcher Bell NA

3) 93rd Tim Branham NA

5) 144th Pavel Duma NA

7) 208th Brandon Reid 13 2 4 6 0

8) 241st Nathan Barrett NA

9) 272nd Tim Smith NA

2000. Pretty sad draft. [sABRES]

2001 BUF

1) 22nd Jiri Novotny 189 20 31 51 66

2) 32nd Derek Roy 666 177 315 492 367

3) 50th Chris Thorburn 523 36 61 97 656

5) 155th Michal Vondrka NA

8) 234th Calle Aslund NA

8) 247th Marek Dubec NA

9) 279th Ryan Jorde NA

2001 VAN

1) 16th RJ Umberger 673 169 197 366 278

3) 66th Fedor Fedorov 18 0 2 2 14

4) 114th Evgeny Gladskikh NA

5) 151st Kevin Bieksa 537 52 175 227 802

7) 212nd Jason King 59 12 11 23 8

8) 245th Konstantin Mikhailov NA

2001. [slight edge to SABRES]

2002 BUF

1) 11th Keith Ballard 590 38 136 174 586

1) 20th Daniel Paille 499 79 80 159 123

3) 76th Michael Tessier NA

3) 82nd John Adams NA

4) 108th Jakub Hulva NA

4) 121st Marty Magers NA

6) 178th Maxim Schevjev NA

7) 208th Radoslav Hecl 14 0 0 0 2

8) 241st Dennis Wideman 627 77 217 294 407

9) 271st Martin Cizek NA

2002 VAN (3 in 3 rounds)

2) 49th Kirill Koltsov NA

2) 55th Denis Grot NA

3) 68th Brett Skinner 11 0 0 0 4

3) 83th Lukas Mensator NA

5) 151th Rob McVicar 1 0 0 0 0

7) 214th Marc-Andre Roy NA

7) 223rd Ilya Krikunov NA

8) 247th Matt Violin NA

9) 277th Thomas Nussli NA

9) 278th Matt Gens NA

2002. [sABRES] by a landslide. 2 1st rounders vs none by the Canucks.

2003 BUF

1) 5th Thomas Vanek 663 277 279 556 404

2) 65th Branislav Fabry NA

3) 74th Clarke MacArthur 482 117 151 268 307

4) 106th Jan Hejda 546 24 98 122 275

4) 114thy Denis Yezhov NA

5) 150th Tom Morrow NA

6) 172th Pavel Voroshnin NA

7) 202nd Nathan Paetsch 167 7 35 42 114

8) 235th Jeff Weber NA

9) 266th Louis-Philippe Martin NA

2003 VAN

1) 23rd Ryan Kesler 655 182 211 393 594

2) 61th Marc-Andre Bernier NA

4) 111th Brandon Nolan 6 0 1 1 0

4) 128th Ty Morris NA

5) 160th Nicklas Danielson NA

6) 190th Chad Brownlee NA

7) 222nd Francios-Pierre Guentte NA

8) 252nd Sergei Topol NA

2003. [sABRES] by a landslide with 5th overall pick and value in their 4th and 5th round.

2004 BUF

1) 13th Drew Stafford 513 136 162 298 288

2) 43rd Mike Funk 9 0 2 2 0

3) 71st Andrej Sekera 413 28 108 136 122

5) 145th Michal Valent NA

6) 176th Patrick Kaleta 306 27 24 51 506

7) 207th Mark Mancari 42 3 10 13 22

8) 241st Mike Card 4 0 0 0 0

9) 273rd Dylan Hunter NA

2004 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 26th Cory Schneider 143 0 6 6 4

3) 91st Alex Edler 494 58 170 228 287

4) 125th Andrew Sarauer NA

5) 159th Mike Brown 337 17 14 31 666

6) 189th Julien Ellis NA

2004. Edge to [sABRES]

For the most part, the Sabres were ahead in the draft in position as well as having a slight edge in the quantity of picks.

[Me_]

Give credit when credit is due. Tipping point for that series was Chara & Thomas, 2 players we had no answer for...

We had the 1G but we never got the 1D.

I agree.

Same in L.A. with Quick and Doughty. Hasek and Lidstrom, Niemi and Keith. The list goes on.

It's better to have a top salaried 1D complemented by serviceable 4Ds then a whole bunch of equally average Ds who defend by committee.

As for drafting, like the actually game these players play, most of it is rather an equal battle of players and talent. However, these talents need to be coached and the Canucks haven't had a coach for seven years prior to Tortorella coming in.

The development system is finally starting to become noticeable with Green and the Comets, who might move to Abbotsford; a stroke of genius if it happens.

The scouting staff led by Delorme and Gradin needs to have a different perspective. Gradin's title should be Head scout for Sweden, not Europe.

Swedes, with few exceptions, are not built for the major grind that is what has become the Pacific Division. A Tortorella team, in theory, is.

Tortorella on Edler: "could never get into his head", and definitely got into young Kassian's head; a Canadian kid.

Blame Sweden? Both Detroit's Lidstrom and Boston's Chara (Czech), we're surrounded by rugged North Americans who wanted it bad.

The Sedins have no such player around them outside of a very few; Kassian, Kesler, Burrows and Bieksa. Cup teams have much more go-to depth.

Some of those players might be traded for even more of that sand paper the Canucks don't currently have.

[BurgerKing]

 

Give credit when credit is due. Tipping point for that series was Chara & Thomas, 2 players we had no answer for...

 

Tipping Point was injuries: Kesler, Hamhuis, Edler, Raymond, Samuelsson, Erhoff

[BurgerKing]

 

We had the 1G but we never got the 1D.

I agree.

Same in L.A. with Quick and Doughty. Hansel and Lidstrom, Niemi and Keith. The list goes on.

It's better to have a top salaried 1D complemented by serviceable 4Ds then a whole bunch of equally average Ds who defend by committee.

As for drafting, like the actually game these players play, most of it is rather an equal battle of players and talent. However, these talents need to be coached and the Canucks haven't had a coach for seven years prior to Tortorella coming in.

The development system is finally starting to become noticeable with Green and the Comets, who might move to Abbotsford; a stroke of genius if it happens.

The scouting staff led by Delorme and Gradin needs to have a different perspective. Gradin's title should be Head scout for Sweden, not Europe.

Swedes, with few exceptions, are not built for the major grind that is what has become the Pacific Division. A Tortorella team, in theory, is.

Tortorella on Edler: "could never get into his head", and definitely got into young Kassian's head; a Canadian kid.

Blame Sweden? Both Detroit's Lidstrom and Boston's Chara (Czech), we're surrounded by rugged North Americans who wanted it bad.

The Sedins have no such player around them outside of a very few; Kassian, Kesler, Burrows and Bieksa. Cup teams have much more go-to depth.

Some of those players might be traded for even more of that sand paper the Canucks don't currently have.

 

The players from the last 3 drafts don't look that bad, maybe aquaman should have been a bit more patient with Gillis

[nuck in cow town]

All this talk about potential GM candidates and much has been mentioned about the superior drafting records of the Bruins organization vs the Canucks. How potential a certain GM candidate (Benning) who joined Boston in the 2006 season has an eye for talent and will turn our fortunes around. Media hype? Or this there actual truth behind all the chatter? I don't profess to be an NHL insider, so the best resources I could dig up was from HockeyFuture.com as well as HockeyDB.com. Surprised to see the Bruins currently rated 18th out of 30 teams for their farm system, with the Canucks at 24th.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-rankings/

I've compiled the following draft lists by year to give a easier side by side comparison between the teams.

2002 BOS (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 29th Hannu Toivonen 61 0 0 0 10

2) 56th Vladislav Yevseyev NA

4) 130 Jan Kubista NA

5) 153 Peter Hmerlik NA

7) 228th Dimitri Utkin NA

8) 259th Yan Stastny 91 6 10 16 58

9) 290th Pavel Frolov NA

2002 VAN (3 in 3 rounds)

2) 49th Kirill Koltsov NA

2) 55th Denis Grot NA

3) 68th Brett Skinner 11 0 0 0 4

3) 83th Lukas Mensator NA

5) 151th Rob McVicar 1 0 0 0 0

7) 214th Marc-Andre Roy NA

7) 223rd Ilya Krikunov NA

8) 247th Matt Violin NA

9) 277th Thomas Nussli NA

9) 278th Matt Gens NA

2002. A miserable drafting year for both teams. What more can be said? (slight edge to BRUINS)

2003 BOS (3 in 3 rounds)

1) 21st Mark Stuart 497 21 51 72 560

2) 45th Patrice Bergeron 659 183 312 495 223

3) 66th Masi Marjamaki 1 0 0 0 0

4) 107th Byron Bitz 97 10 12 22 65

4) 118th Frank Rediker NA

4) 129th Patrik Valcak NA

6) 183rd Nate Thompson 391 39 46 85 199

8) 247th Benoit Mondou NA

2003 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 23rd Ryan Kesler 655 182 211 393 594

2) 61th Marc-Andre Bernier NA

4) 111th Brandon Nolan 6 0 1 1 0

4) 128th Ty Morris NA

5) 160th Nicklas Danielson NA

6) 190th Chad Brownlee NA

7) 222nd Francios-Pierre Guentte NA

8) 252nd Sergei Topol NA

2003. I was surprised by the "success" rate considering how deep the 2003 draft was hyped up by the media. (BRUINS)

2004 BOS (2 in 3 rounds)

2) 63rd David Krejci 504 110 268 378 186

2) 64th Martins Karsums 24 1 5 6 6

4) 108th Ashton Rome NA

5) 134th Kris Versteeg 412 102 139 241 242

5) 160th Ben Walter 24 1 0 1 6

7) 224th Matt Hunwick 292 16 51 67 116

2004 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 26th Cory Schneider 143 0 6 6 4

3) 91st Alex Edler 494 58 170 228 287

4) 125th Andrew Sarauer NA

5) 159th Mike Brown 337 17 14 31 666

6) 189th Julien Ellis NA

9) 287th Jannik Hansen 389 61 90 151 174

2004. I would consider this an excellent year by the Canucks scouting department, although the Bruins didn't have a 1st rounder. (WASH)

2005 BOS (3 in 3 rounds)

1) 22nd Matt Lashoff 74 15 16 59

2) 39th Petr Kalus 11 4 1 5 6

3) 83rd Mikko Lehtonen 2 0 0 0 0

4) Vladimir Sobotka 381 35 88 123 282

5) 154th Wacey Rabbit NA

6) 172nd Lukas Vantuch NA

7) 217th Brock Bradford NA

2005 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 10th Luc Bourdon 36 2 0 2 24

2) 51st Mason Raymond 456 99 124 223 140

4) 114th Alexander Vincent NA

5) 138th Matt Butcher NA

6) 185th Kris Fredheim 3 0 0 0 0

7) 205th Mario Bliznak 6 1 0 1 0

* FA Chris Tanev 156 8 19 27 20

2005. Another year that could have been a big win vs the Bruins if not for the unfortunate tragedy with Luc Bourdon. (CANUCKS)

2006 BOS (4 in 3 rounds)

1) 5th Phil Kessel 586 222 237 459 166

2) 37th Yuri Alexandrov NA

2) 50th Milan Lucic 485 121 177 298 691

3) 71st Brad Marchand 300 92 94 186 249

5) 128th Andrew Bodnarchik 5 0 0 0 0

6) 158th Levi Nelson NA

2006 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 14th Michael Grabner 283 87 55 142 54

3) 82nd Daniel Rahimi NA

6) 163rd Sergei Shirokov 8 1 0 1 2

6) 167th Juraj Simek NA

7) 197th Evan Fuller NA

* Trade Jeremy Welsh 7.0C

2006. First year that AGM Benning was on the job. Canucks had 2 picks vs the Bruins 4 in the first 3 rounds. Outright win by Boston with Kessel, Lucic and Marchand. We wouldn't have had a chance at either since we traded away our 2nd (thanks Nonis!). Picking top 5 does give a distinctive advantage in securing an impact player, especially if it isn't a deep draft. (BRUINS by a landslide)

2007 BOS (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 8th Zach Hamill 20 0 4 4 4

2) 35th Tommy Cross 6.5C

5) 130th Denis Reul NA

6) 159th Alain Goulet NA

7) 189th Jordan Knackstedt NA

2007 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 25th Patrick White NA

2) 33rd Taylor Ellington NA

5) 145th Charles-Antonie Messier NA

5) 146th Iiya Kablukov NA

6) 176th Taylor Matson NA

7) 206th Dan Gendur NA

* FA Kellan Lain 6.0D

2007. Miserable years for both team. (WASH)

2008 BOS (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 16th Joe Colborne 96 11 23 34 40

3) 77th Michael Hutchinson 3 0 0 0 0

4) 97th Jamie Arniel 1 0 0 0 0

6) 173rd Nicolas Tremblay NA

7) 197th Mark Goggin NA

* Trade David Warsofsky 6.0B

2008 VAN (2 in 3 rounds)

1) 10th Cody Hodgson 211 55 66 121 50

2) 41st Yann Sauve 8 0 0 0 0 6.5C

5) 131st Prabhi Rai NA

6) 161st Mats Froshaug NA

7) 191st Morgan Clark NA

* FA Joacim Eriksson 7.0C

* FA Darren Archibald 6.5C

2008. Top 10 pick and the beginning of the GMMG era. (Slight edge to the CANUCKS)

2009 BOS

1) 25th Jordan Caron 123 12 16 28 60

2) 86th Ryan Button NA

4) 112th Lane MacDonald 21 2 2 4 36

6) 176th Tyler Randell 5.0C

7) 206th Ben Sexton 6.0C

* Trade Adam Morrison 5.5C

* Trade Alexande Fallstrom 6.5C

2009 VAN

1) 22nd Jordan Schroeder 56 6 9 15 6 7.0C

2) 53rd Anton Rodin NA

3) 83rd Kevin Connauton 36 1 7 8 16

4) 113rd Jeremy Price NA

5) 143rd Peter Andersson 6.5C

6) 173rd Joe Cannata 6.5C

7) 187th Steve Anthony NA

* Trade Jeff Costello 6.0D

* FA Ronalds Kenins 6.0D

2009. Pretty forgettable year for both teams, especially us missing out on Ryan OReilly at 33rd. (WASH)

2010 BOS

1) 2nd Tyler Seguin 283 93 112 205 82

2) 31st Jared Knight 6.5C

2) 45th Ryan Spooner 27 0 11 11 6 7.5C

4) 97th Craig Cunnigham 2 0 0 0 6.5C

5) 135th Justin Florek 4 1 1 2 0 6.0C

6) 165th Zane Gothberg 7.0C

7) 195th Maxim Chudinov 7.5F

7) 210 Zach Trotman 6.5C

* Trade Rob Flick 6.5C

* FA Chris Casto 6.5D

* FA Torey Krug 82 14 28 42 28

2010 VAN

4) 115th Patrick McNally 7.0D

5) 145th Adam Polasek NA

6) 175th Alex Friesen 6.5D

7) 205th Sawyer Hannay NA

* FA Michael Zalewski 6.5D

* FA Jeremie Blain 7.0C

2010. Top 2 pick in Seguin. Good drafting or a function of draft order? (BRUINS)

2011 BOS

1) 9th Dougie Hamilton 106 12 29 41 54

2) 40th Alexander Khokhlachev 1 0 0 0 2 7.5C

3) 81st Anthony Camara 7.0C

4) 121st Brian Ferlin NA 7.0D

5) 151st Rob OGara 6.5C

6) 181st Lar Volden NA

* Trade Joe Morrow 7.5C

2011 VAN

1) 29th Nicklas Jensen 19 3 3 6 10 7.5C

3) 71st David Honzik NA

3) 90th Alexandre Greiner 7.0D

4) 101st Joseph Labate 6.5C

4) 120th Ludwig Blomstrad 6.0C

5) 150th Frankie Corrado 18 1 0 1 4 7.0C

6) 180th Pathrik Westerholm NA

7) 210th Henrik Tommernes 7.0D

2011. Looks like we might have 2 players in Jensen and Corrado. Can someone pipe in about the Boston prospects? (QUESTION MARK)

2012 BOS

1) 24th Malcom Subban NA 8.0C

3) 85th Matt Grzelcyk 7.0C

5) 131st Seth Griffith 7.0C

5) 145th Cody Payne NA

6) 175th Matthew Benning 5.0C

7) 205th Colton Hargrove 5.0C

* FA Niklas Svedberg 6.5B

* FA Kevan Miller 6.0A

2012 VAN

1) 26th Brendan Gaunce 7.0C

2) 57th Alexandre Mallet 6.5C

5) 147th Ben Hutton 6.5C

6) 177th Wesley Myron 6.0D

7) 207th Matthew Beattie 6.0D

* FA Evan McEneny 6.0C

* FA Dane Fox 6.0C

2012. Looks like we can only count on Gaunce on being a player, while Bruins might have 2 if not 3 useful players. (BRUINS)

2013 BOS

2) 60th Linus Arnesson 6.5C

3) 90th Peter Cehlarik 7.0C

4) 120th Ryan Fitzgerald 7.5D

5) 150th Wiley Sherman 6.0C

6) 180th Anton Blidh 6.0C

7) 211th Mitchell Dempsey 5.5C

2013 VAN

1) 9th Bo Horvat 7.5C

1) 24th Hunter Shinkaruk 7.5D

2) 85th Cole Cassels 6.5C

4) 115th Jordan Subban 6.5D

5) 145th Anton Cederholm 6.0C

6) 175th Mike Williamson 6.0D

7) 205th Miles Liberati 6.5D

2013. Roles are reversed as teams are trending in different directions as Bruins make a push for the Cup by giving up their 1st rounder and Canucks trying to restock the cupboards. (CANUCKS)

What I have learnt spending all this time crunching the numbers? Other than 2006 when the Bruins struck the mother load with their two 2nd rounders (Lucic & Marchand), drafting between the 2 teams has been a lot closer than most media types would have you believe. Drafting SuperStars were more a function of draft order (Kessel @ 5th and Seguin @ 2nd overall) than better scouting department. 2010-2013 is still too early to call it one way or the other. Overall the team that had the highest pick almost always landed the better player (please don't tell me that the Canucks could have screwed up drafting 5th in 2006 and 2nd in 2010).

It is no coincidence that most of the teams with the best farm teams are also the ones with the worst records over the same span. All teams (other than the Oilers and the Islanders) eventually stock up enough talent (after extended down cycles) to contend and challenge for the Cup. At their peak, they almost always sacrifice depth in their farm system to make that finally push. Only 3 teams deviate from the norm.

Anaheim, Detroit and Chicago.

Three perennial powerhouses with farm teams ranked 3rd, 9th and 10th respectively. Might I suggest we might want to look closer at raiding the front office of Anaheim or Chicago (Dallas having taken Nill) instead of simply buying into the hype of building via the "Boston model"? Not to say that Benning isn't the man for the job… just to make sure that we don't narrow the search parameters and be blinded by the media noise...

The difference is the ability of the big bad Bruins to get their players albeit drafted or FA signings into the lineup. Look since 2009 until present; the Bruins have played over 600 man games regardless if there still with the team or another NHL team. The Canucks unfortunately have a paltry 131. Yes 1/3 of that comes from a #2 pick but just the same the remaining man games crush us. Does this speak to developmental efficiencies or simply....poor drafting. Granted our 2013 draft class has three prospects but time will tell.

[73 Percent]

The difference is the ability of the big bad Bruins to get their players albeit drafted or FA signings into the lineup. Look since 2009 until present; the Bruins have played over 600 man games regardless if there still with the team or another NHL team. The Canucks unfortunately have a paltry 131. Yes 1/3 of that comes from a #2 pick but just the same the remaining man games crush us. Does this speak to developmental efficiencies or simply....poor drafting. Granted our 2013 draft class has three prospects but time will tell.

as you mentioned in your post its easy when Toronto gives you a future. how many games of those 600 are seguin and Hamilton.

[Burnsey]

I always say that the draft is the most difficult part of the entire hockey season. You can draft top 10, but a player in the 5th round could end up being the better player in the long-run. The draft is just guessing who will be a good player. There are a few exceptions, like Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin, etc. where they are almost guaranteed to have a good career going into the draft, but most of the time it's kind of lets pick this guy, there is a lot of hype over him so maybe he will be a good choice.

Obviously none of us know what it takes to be a GM but if it's hard to argue that Boston has made their team effective. Maybe a large part of that is because of Benning. Who knows.

What this team needs to do right now is find an identity. In 2011 we were know as a puck possession skilled team, after all the media and fans were calling for tough guys, Gillis tried to pursue that identity (which ultimately failed). It's a new era, Linden and co need to see where we are and where/what they want this team to be and then they can hire of GM accordingly.