Absent Canuck Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Ok so the arguments for not drafting him are: -he's "fat" -he has a busted head and busted shoulder -there are examples of power forwards drafted 10 years ago that busted -undisciplined penalties This kid has the best wrist shot in the draft. He has a much higher IQ than Virtanen. He can pass, and like Merci mentioned, he can even make a saucer pass at top speed. He's physical (not in Lucic territory) but nonetheless, he is physical and can drop it with anyone. His skating is NOT an issue. He has good acceleration and he gets where he needs to be. As for the undisciplined penalties, those things are not permanent and can be stamped out. I wouldnt consider Beach and Colborne to be over 10 years ago. There are others. The guys he compared him to are also over 10 years ago (Getzfaf , Nash) and the other was a late second round pick who flourished in a very well constructed Bruins system . Even that was 9 years ago. I think folks want an honest debate. Not cherry picked info and hype. I think Ritchie is a great prospect. I take Ehlers over him for reasons long since talked out in the Ehlers thread. I dont begrudge anyone who takes him. He is big, has a wicked shot . I still say he cant play at 230. If he can play at 220 or 215 he will be able to do a lot more on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanBeef Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Too out of shape to be Getzlaf, who's a mvp-type center. Too wussy to be Lucic, who's 200-300% tougher. Too slow to be Nash, who (at least in his earlier years) was a premier league scorer. I think Pyatt or Clowe are reasonable ceilings for Ritchie. If he's injured as often as he's been already, then Latendresse is a reasonable expectation. Clowe doesn't play much like Ritchie and Pyatt doesn't have as much hockey sense as Ritchie. I see Ritchie more as a slower Jamie Benn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Clowe doesn't play much like Ritchie and Pyatt doesn't have as much hockey sense as Ritchie. I see Ritchie more as a slower Jamie Benn. I disagree. He does. He didnt have the skill to translate his junior game to the NHL game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanBeef Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I disagree. He does. He didnt have the skill to translate his junior game to the NHL game. From what I've seen in his time with Vancouver, he didn't find the scoring areas as much as Ritchie and spent a lot of his time along the boards winning puck battles for his linemates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 From what I've seen in his time with Vancouver, he didn't find the scoring areas as much as Ritchie and spent a lot of his time along the boards winning puck battles for his linemates. Ritchie has a higher IQ but Pyatt was no slouch. He just wasnt fast enough at the NHL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanBeef Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Ritchie has a higher IQ but Pyatt was no slouch. He just wasnt fast enough at the NHL level. Never said Pyatt was any bad. I was just trying to say that their playing styles are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Never said Pyatt was any bad.I was just trying to say that their playing styles are different. Then you didnt watch Pyatt in junior. You cant compare Pyatts NHL career to Ritchies junior career. They both were very similar in junior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I wouldnt consider Beach and Colborne to be over 10 years ago. There are others. The guys he compared him to are also over 10 years ago (Getzfaf , Nash) and the other was a late second round pick who flourished in a very well constructed Bruins system . Even that was 9 years ago. I think folks want an honest debate. Not cherry picked info and hype. I think Ritchie is a great prospect. I take Ehlers over him for reasons long since talked out in the Ehlers thread. I dont begrudge anyone who takes him. He is big, has a wicked shot . I still say he cant play at 230. If he can play at 220 or 215 he will be able to do a lot more on the ice. Ritchie completely blows Beach out of the water. Ritchie's wrister is best in his draft class. Beach's shot was average. Ritchie already has 20+ pounds on Beach. Beach was an average skater but doesn't have the acceleration Ritchie had. Beach was also notorious for be disinterested in his own zone. He couldn't play D to save his life. Ritchie has better vision and is a better passer. Did anyone honestly expect Beach to make it big? Colborne was drafted at 190 so we won't even go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanBeef Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Then you didnt watch Pyatt in junior. You cant compare Pyatts NHL career to Ritchies junior career. They both were very similar in junior. I said that I was comparing Ritchie to Pyatt in his time with Vancouver. Sure, Pyatt may have played a different way in Vancouver than in junior, but at the end of the day I don't think Ritchie's play in junior will translate into how Pyatt looked in Vancouver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Ritchie completely blows Beach out of the water. Ritchie's wrister is best in his draft class. Beach's shot was average. Ritchie already has 20+ pounds on Beach. Beach was an average skater but doesn't have the acceleration Ritchie had. Beach was also notorious for be disinterested in his own zone. He couldn't play D to save his life. Ritchie has better vision and is a better passer. Did anyone honestly expect Beach to make it big?Colborne was drafted at 190 so we won't even go there. Agreed, comparing Beach to Ritchie is truly silly. I watched a lot of Beach before he was drafted and I wouldn't have taken him before the 3rd round. He was always a huge risk. Joe Colborne was drafted at 16th. Who were you thinking of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Ritchie completely blows Beach out of the water. Ritchie's wrister is best in his draft class. Beach's shot was average. Ritchie already has 20+ pounds on Beach. Beach was an average skater but doesn't have the acceleration Ritchie had. Beach was also notorious for be disinterested in his own zone. He couldn't play D to save his life. Ritchie has better vision and is a better passer. Did anyone honestly expect Beach to make it big? Colborne was drafted at 190 so we won't even go there. Ok but in all fairness you are using subjective spin to analyze the guy . When we compared Ehlers we simply used their accomplishments and their scouting reports. We never said .....oh yeah? So and so busted but he couldnt skate blah blah This is because what Ehlers did was so special there are no prospects who did the same thing and busted. If you are going to use lopsided talking points where you behold Ritchie and rip apart anyone who busted , it will resolve nothing. There was nothing wrong with Beech, or Colborne or Pyatt or Bernier at the time. Playing Captain Hindsight and calling professional scouts and GMs idiots for drafting these players is ridiculous. Meticulously ripping these prospects as a way to put distance between them and Ritchie is also useless and unconvincing. Trying to compare Ritchies numbers to Getzlaf and Nash are non starters. Ritchie does not have the skill nor hockey IQ or other assets these players have. Ritchie , like any other power forward, are very risky and are hard to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Agreed, comparing Beach to Ritchie is truly silly. I watched a lot of Beach before he was drafted and I wouldn't have taken him before the 3rd round. He was always a huge risk. Joe Colborne was drafted at 16th. Who were you thinking of? 190 lbs sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 190 lbs sorry Ah, yes. Of course. Colborne was never drafted as a PWF, definitely. He was a big, lanky centre who could grow into his frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Ok but in all fairness you are using subjective spin to analyze the guy . When we compared Ehlers we simply used their accomplishments and their scouting reports. We never said .....oh yeah? So and so busted but he couldnt skate blah blah This is because what Ehlers did was so special there are no prospects who did the same thing and busted. If you are going to use lopsided talking points where you behold Ritchie and rip apart anyone who busted , it will resolve nothing. There was nothing wrong with Beech, or Colborne or Pyatt or Bernier at the time. Playing Captain Hindsight and calling professional scouts and GMs idiots for drafting these players is ridiculous. Meticulously ripping these prospects as a way to put distance between them and Ritchie is also useless and unconvincing. Trying to compare Ritchies numbers to Getzlaf and Nash are non starters. Ritchie does not have the skill nor hockey IQ or other assets these players have. Ritchie , like any other power forward, are very risky and are hard to develop. Ritchie has the skill and he has the hockey IQ. He is not difficult to develop. He also happens to have size so that's good too Please don't bring Ehlers into this until we hit 20 pages and things get stale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kooner91 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I don't know about you guys, but eith our first pick in the top 10 apart from last year in a long time, I would rather take a guy that has a 50% chance at being a top line player, 50% chance bust than another 2nd/3rd line tweener. We have enough of that. What we don't havw are game breaking prospects, aside from Shinkaruk and maybe Jensen. This should be about that that 1st liner for the future, I don't think Ritchie is that guy this year. Nylander, Ehlers, or too a lesser extent, Virtanen for me if one of the top 5 don't drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Agreed, comparing Beach to Ritchie is truly silly. I watched a lot of Beach before he was drafted and I wouldn't have taken him before the 3rd round. He was always a huge risk. Joe Colborne was drafted at 16th. Who were you thinking of? Sorry to intrude but Asian captioned your post so I was able to see it. Its so ludicous that I had to say something. Hey guys. This is another example of how full of crap Minister is. There is no scout on the planet who watched Beach play who had him any lower than #24 in the draft. But good ol Minister says (6 years later in hindsight) 'he knew it all along' and wouldnt have drafted him in the first round. No sir. He would not even drafted a point a game power forward in the second round. No way. That boy is a third round pick. Yuppers. Well I guess he can go show us his posts in Late 2007 or early 2008 to verify this. Minister is WAY smarter than all the professional scouts. Its outright absurd. He has no idea what he is talking about. He makes up bull crap right off the top of his head. If you guys want to convince yourself a 'smart poster' makes posts like this , then I again suggest you find new a guru. Here is one fairly high profile mock draft for 2008 He is projected to go 10th. http://www.mynhldraft.com/2008-NHL-Mock-Draft/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Sorry to intrude but Asian captioned your post so I was able to see it. Its so ludicous that I had to say something. Hey guys. This is another example of how full of crap Minister is. There is no scout on the planet who watched Beach play who had him any lower than #24 in the draft. But good ol Minister says (6 years later in hindsight) 'he knew it all along' and wouldnt have drafted him in the first round. No sir. He would not even drafted a point a game power forward in the second round. No way. That boy is a third round pick. Yuppers. Well I guess he can go show us his posts in Late 2007 or early 2008 to verify this. Minister is WAY smarter than all the professional scouts. Its outright absurd. He has no idea what he is talking about. He makes up bull crap right off the top of his head. If you guys want to convince yourself a 'smart poster' makes posts like this , then I again suggest you find new a guru. Here is one fairly high profile mock draft for 2008 He is projected to go 10th. http://www.mynhldraft.com/2008-NHL-Mock-Draft/ Please go back to ignoring me. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancanwincup Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Hey Absent plz find me 5 more players at 230lbs with similar Juniour numbers ill be right here. Ehlers played with Drouin man, get over him. He'll play RW with Jordan Staal and get 30 goals, then the Hurricans will miss the playoffs as they had no defense, and the Canucks will be watching a line of Ritchie Horvat and Kassian absolutely destroy the competition with superior play in every facet Nikita Alexeev Hugh Jessiman Eric Fehr Anthony Stewart Drew Stafford Ryan O'Marra Martin Hanzal Chris Stewart Greg Nemisz Kris Beech Taylor Pyatt Denis Shvidki Scott Kelman Mark Bell Mike Rupp Jeff Heerema Eric Chouinard Matt Zultek Ty Jones Dainius Zubrus Chad Kilger Steve Kelly Jason Bonsignore Ethan Moreau Wayne Primeau Chris Dingman Jason Botterill Chris Wells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merci Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 Nikita Alexeev Hugh Jessiman Eric Fehr Anthony Stewart Drew Stafford Ryan O'Marra Martin Hanzal Chris Stewart Greg Nemisz Kris Beech Taylor Pyatt Denis Shvidki Scott Kelman Mark Bell Mike Rupp Jeff Heerema Eric Chouinard Matt Zultek Ty Jones Dainius Zubrus Chad Kilger Steve Kelly Jason Bonsignore Ethan Moreau Wayne Primeau Chris Dingman Jason Botterill Chris Wells Randomly checked 5 of those players and none of them even played in the OHL or WHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancanwincup Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Randomly checked 5 of those players and none of them even played in the OHL or WHL Better than half did! The point is there have been many players his size who put similar or a lot better numbers, even Chris Dingman. You asked for 5 players, thinking you were clever and no one could come up with such a list. I did know what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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