aGENT Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I was just trying to bring some objectivity from the general sense that this team is the best team in the world and that simply bad luck was the reason the Sedins didn't score 100 points each last year ... but I digress. No slight on the Sedins intended. I guess I've been watching a different Canucks for the past 6 years. Where the hell do you come up with this stuff? I have literally seen nothing that would have given anyone that impression posted here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Quoting the guy that couldnt coach an elite player list such as the canucks smh Elite player list? The only "elite" players we have are the Sedins. And they are getting pretty old. Luongo too but Torts doesn't really control him, not that it matters anymore since he's gone. Kesler isn't elite either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Where the hell do you come up with this stuff? I have literally seen nothing that would have given anyone that impression posted here. Well I have to go extremes sometimes to get the point across Okay this is what you posted. I'm so tired of reading this. It has nothing to with them being "figured out". It's largely a combination of two things: 1- The league/officiating has allowed clutching and grabbing back in to the game. This affects all offensive players including the Sedins as they have less time and space to make plays. 2-A lack of scoring depth means opposing teams can key in all their best defensive players against the twins and not worry terribly much about the other lines scoring on them. That's it. Has literally nothing to do with being "figured out" It really looks like you're are making excuses for them like they can do no wrong. For you it's 1. The league is the problem, and 2. It's the rest of the team. It's been publicized and commented on by far more people, in far more lofty postions than myself. All I did was ask if being figured has absolutely nothing to do with it, so I hope you can see where I got it. I didn't say it was a great cause I was just asking if maybe it had a some affect after all, and you know what, you then admitted it did. It was just a simple question. I think it's quite obvious it has something to do with it. Whether other stars are affected by it or not wasn't anything I was implying or commenting on. Maybe with my criticality and your homerism we'd be the perfect fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Well I have to go extremes sometimes to get the point across Okay this is what you posted. It really looks like you're are making excuses for them like they can do no wrong. For you it's 1. The league is the problem, and 2. It's the rest of the team. It's been publicized and commented on by far more people, in far more lofty postions than myself. All I did was ask if being figured has absolutely nothing to do with it, so I hope you can see where I got it. I didn't say it was a great cause I was just asking if maybe it had a some affect after all, and you know what, you then admitted it did. It was just a simple question. I think it's quite obvious it has something to do with it. Whether other stars are affected by it or not wasn't anything I was implying or commenting on. Maybe with my criticality and your homerism we'd be the perfect fan. : :D When a factor is universal and equal it's a non factor IMO. It's like whining about how high you can('t) jump because gravity is pulling you down. Well gee But if you want to go off on tangents and make silly comments about teams/players being "perfect" it makes you look silly, not objective or "critical". And nothing I've posted has anything to do with me being a "homer" or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 When a factor is universal and equal it's a non factor IMO. It's like whining about how high you can('t) jump because gravity is pulling you down. Well gee But if you want to go off on tangents and make silly comments about teams/players being "perfect" it makes you look silly, not objective or "critical". And nothing I've posted has anything to do with me being a "homer" or not. Good enough. I've learned my lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm skeptical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The "CORE" as a whole is washed up. As you suggest none of the players are personally washed up (they are aging), but unfotunately they are not good enough together to win moving forward and haven't been for a couple years now. Add to that the lack of cap space and yeah, the "CORE" is washed up. I guess whatever though if you're happy going the Gillis route and bringing in a 3rd liner to augment this core we'll watch last year repeated again. Players do have limitations and it's alright to mention them, and that doesn't have to be taken as an insult, simply an observation related to reality. Obviously I should retract this statement as it wasn't received in the manner intended. I was just trying to bring some objectivity from the general sense that this team is the best team in the world and that simply bad luck was the reason the Sedins didn't score 100 points each last year ... but I digress. No slight on the Sedins intended. I guess I've been watching a different Canucks for the past 6 years.Who's saying this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotianLifestyle Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Wow, all these negative posts about how crappy this team is, and all these positive posts about how good the Canucks will be next year mean nothing. The reality is this. The Canucks don't have a coach or a GM. We aren't even done watching how this years Stanley Cup finals end, yet pretty much everyone here is so sure of their opinion that they refuse to be open minded to either side, good or bad. It seems some of the posters here have even decided to appoint themselves as the be all, know all of every situation and don't mind telling others that their opinion is totally invalid. Try and get over yourselves, you are not professional GM's, coaches, scouts or agents, you're all just hanging out at your computer or whatever you use to access the internet and voicing your opinions, and none of them are any more valid than the next person. Just because you have thousands of posts, it doesn't mean you know anymore than the person with 5 or 10, it just means you have a bigger need to voice your own opinion. Maybe waiting until a GM is in place, and a coach is in place, and see how they are going to handle the team might be a good thing to do. This team could be totally different on opening day than even the biggest know it alls could have imagined, for better or worse. None of you are right, and none of you are wrong at this point... No one knows what will happen and all your opinions, no matter how knowledgeable you think you are, mean jack crap. Is there perhaps reason to be optomistic?... sure, why not??... Is there perhaps reason to be all doom and gloom like so many of you are??... sure, why not?? Only time will tell..... +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kenobi Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 "they got way over played". Fine. If they don't want to play big minutes, they need to retire so we can get our prospects in playing big minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 "they got way over played". Fine. If they don't want to play big minutes, they need to retire so we can get our prospects in playing big minutes. It's not about what minutes they played. Good coaching is about putting players in a position to succeed/maximize their abilities. That didn't remotely happen this past season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It's not about what minutes they played. Good coaching is about putting players in a position to succeed/maximize their abilities. That didn't remotely happen this past season. To be fair, it seems that the Sedins wanted a bigger role to prove themselves and it backfired on them. AV had them pegged on the bench during the PK and it was the right decision. That being said, he (AV) misplayed Kassian very badly and how he handled players like Grabner and Ballard were very questionable, particularly the latter. AV did a good job for the most part in running a team and I have come to my senses on that. He's not that bad of a coach. But he wouldn't have fixed this year's problems. Tortorella similarly isn't a bad coach but the team itself wasn't designed with Torts game style in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 No place but up? Up in draft position? Or getting the last wild card spot to be knocked out in the first round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 No place but up? Up in draft position? Or getting the last wild card spot to be knocked out in the first round? Dw I'll keep that one seat on the bandwagon reserved for you. Even as a wild card seed you can do some damage. All you gotta do is get in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 You look at the playoffs and what do the successful teams have: 1- elite goaltending (Quick, Price, Rask, Gibson...)- we have that in Lack 2- a couple of world class forwards (Toews,Kane, Getzlaf, Perry...): we have that in the Sedins 3- a couple of strong supporting forwards (Sharp, Lucic...): we have that in Kesler and Burrows 4- a do it all defenceman (Keith, Doughty, Subban...): we have that in Hamhuis The Canucks have all the required ingredients, they are that close. The job now is to perform to capabilities. Oh boy, we can somewhat agree on #3 but you cant possibly think your other comparisons are appropriate. Even if our guys do perform to their capabilities they still aren't on the same level as the other guys you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I don't know about this "reality." The average age of the team is 27, not a single member of the core is "washed up". Dank would be the closest but we'll see what happens with him. Other than that much of what we've seen can be easily explained by poor team building. The core also doesn't need to be changed. AN argument can be made for tweaked but anything more than that is just reactionary and irrational. We also have a prospect pool that's rising. Last year going from 28th to 24th. That's prior to picking up Horvat and Shinks. This year it's going to jump up a few more spots. I can't recall at any point historically van has been that great on these prospect rankings, yet in the last 10-15 years they have been better than most teams in the nhl, Min is amoung the top teams in these rankings every year, they have been mediocre their entire exisitance, their most important moves were signing Parise and Suter. Drafting absolutely is important, and with Benning likely we will get better, but there are other things that matter also; free agent signings, winning culture/coaching, getting value in trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecimatedHD Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Thread title is 100% correct. In one way another we are going up. Either in the standings or in draft position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The same issue keeps getting restated in different ways. There was a 5 year period when there were few prospects being developed for lots of reasons. Lets not cry about it. They need to draft and develop better in the future. Gillis knew this, so does Linden. Drafting has been better the last 2 years, could be overhauled. Owning an AHL team is a big step in the right direction for development. Linden has said that drafting and development is his number one objective. That's the future. The present? Established Canuck players will bounce back. Of course they will. They could trade an asset like Kesler for depth much like Columbus did with Nash last year. This would help with the so called lack of push from players in their early 20's. The real concern for me is 3-4 years from now. Linden gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 top forward free agents: Stasny, likely back with Col Vanek, Min or Mtl Moulson, not worth overpaying, so unlikely Michalek, possible Iggy, likely back with Bos Legwand, replace Kes for a couple years Cammaleri, has history of not buying in to team concept, so no Callahan, don't see him coming west I don't see us getting much help from free agency upfront Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Dw I'll keep that one seat on the bandwagon reserved for you. Even as a wild card seed you can do some damage. All you gotta do is get in... To be knocked out by Chicago, St. Louis, Anaheim, Colorado, or SJ in the first round? The Canucks don't have a roster capable of winning the Stanley Cup or making it far. A rebuilding process can begin now or the Canucks can hold onto the last wild card spot for a few seasons. Then the Canucks will see all their core players retire and have no great prospects because they were always in the playoffs, yet nothing got accomplished. So, up in the draft position would be preferred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THERETOOL Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I admire your optimism. You listed a list of reasons for the team's struggles. I'd have to disagree with some of your reasons. In my opinion the real reasons for the struggles were coming for a few years in the form of mismanagement of assets in addition to hiring a coach who's style is best suited to a different type of roster. Playing the top guys too many minutes wasn't a problem of depth. Although the depth was a bit spotty. It was a sign of a coach who didn't trust the depth he was given. I really can't see the Sedins, Burrows, Hamhuis, Edler (well maybe Edler) being as bad as they were this year. Just too much pride there to mail it in. Though father time may have something to say about how much they bounce back. The goal is not the playoffs. It's the cup. For this team the road to the cup goes through California. The way the team is they can't beat either of the 3 California teams in a 7 game series. The core does need changing. amen .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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