"Bull" Horvat Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Does Linden know the right coach for this team from a hole in the ground? I would have figured Benning is only signing on if he has full control over who is going to be coach. Thats usually how it works anyways. yeah but at the same time the head coach has say over how the team is run.. so if management goes and gets assistants that dont fit with the head coach or have clashing ideas on how things should be run it would create huge problems..its the head coach who has to work with them every day ..the head coach knows hows he wanst the team to play and he knows the guys who he wants running the PP PK defence ect... Althoooooough. Glen Gulutzan was a Gillis hiring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenCR7A Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Not to mention Linden played with our core group so I'm sure he'd know what kind of coach is wanted/needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Trotz is the clear cut favourite IMO. He just needs a good assistant to balance out offense and defense. Oates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Does Linden know the right coach for this team from a hole in the ground? I would have figured Benning is only signing on if he has full control over who is going to be coach. Thats usually how it works anyways. I'm sure Linden has done his homework and gotten advice from many different hockey minds. Ask any GM around the league who the best coaching options are out there right now, and Trotz's name likely comes up at the top of many of their lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Oates? If he's willing to take an assistant role, then sure he'd be great. If not, Linden is probably looking into guys like Desjardins, Blashill, and Johnston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 If Trotz can solve the puzzle that is Alexander Edler then he would be my hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Good, he rarely had a decent offense team in Nashville atleast here we got the Sedins, Kesler. Tortz knows how to coach, he is an expert at the defense side of the game and maybe Edler can bounce back. Burrows would be a top 3 forward on Nashville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 If Trotz can solve the puzzle that is Alexander Edler then he would be my hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Poor ol' Roger Neilson..used to try & figure ALL this stuff on his lonesome, & they dubbed him "weird" for loving that VCR! As ahead of the game in strategy, as he was behind in sportcoat-style..Just musing, but by Gawd, there's a guy we would have enjoyed in this social-media era. Maybe if owners had asked Torts to don a paper bag(on CBC, HNIC, no less!) we could have transformed him into a Neilson-devotee ? (I know..not likely! ;^)..Ensuring we never forget this wayward experiment, we might erect a 2nd bronze-memorial of Fonz pounding on a padlocked portal, hurling obscenities. Perhaps position it outback of the Garage? So many coaches/assts/mg's these days, I'd bet their salaries are collectively higher than we paid full ROSTERS, back in Roger's era. What happened to the unplanned fun of haphazard spontaneity, BTW?! It's like overplanning a house party, & draining the life out of it. I say too many coaching-cooks/kooks(sorry Torts) & micro-managers might just spoil the broth. It also goes hand-in-hand with us armchair-managers, coaching/trading from home in cyber-world. Guess it's how the league maintains interest in spiraling markets? So let's start punishing these clubs for over-coaching & trapping to death..TEN minutes for ED-hockey(emulating Devils), & stick entire coaching staffs in another penalty box. We need a new gimmick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewonder20 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Wow, this is news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 A bit ironic that the Trotz quote in the OP sounds a lot like something Torts would say- not that I'm against Trotz or anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoolander Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Trotz assesses talent and plays to that talent's strengths. I think Kassian is in for a breakout year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Trotz assesses talent and plays to that talent's strengths. I think Kassian is in for a breakout year Which means our strength should be offense from the back end and our powerplay with the amount of money we have invested there. No reason why we shouldn't have the top producing defensive core in the league. Our D need to be way more mobile. That's what will drive the offense IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocnucksfan Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Gotta say (like I did last summer when they hired Torts), I think they're making a huge mistake if they hire Trotz. He's never coached a team with strong puck possession metrics. His team has had abysmal, red flag type possession #'s - and that's beyond concerning. Watching the Predators, looking at the teams advanced stats, usages etc - my concern level is as high as when they hired Torts. This teams needs a new school, innovative thinker who uses/understands advanced stats. Who understands it's a new NHL and knows how to adapt to it. Not Trotz. Look at what Trotz has been given and what hes done in a low income market. Given a much larger richer market and a team like the Canucks hes perfect for the job. We had to go thru them in 2011 and although they werent a worrying threat, look where he got with what he had. Like the man said himself he had a top 5 offensive team when they had the players for it (P. Kariya days). He's more than shown an ability to adapt to make the team the best it can be for the players he's given. Even if he brings a more defensive stye, which I dont believe he will do it'll be good to finally have a defence capable of shutting down teams, and with his ability to adapt he's proven he's more than capable of getting offence out of players who are strictly offensive players, you know, like the Sedins. He's multi faceted and proven an ability to bring the best out of whatever syle team he's given. Unlike Torts who cares about nothing but shot blocking and defensive play and has proven an inability to adapt and only an ability to force a team to adapt to his style. He has a ton of experience, however, stats may be misleading as his entire tenure is with one expansion team in a smaller market. This team needs a coach like Trotz that can bring out the best in every player from the Sedins to Sestito to Edler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningWild Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Why do you think that was a result of Trotz systems and not his forward group? It's a good question. The answer is possession stats aren't just about the forwards, they are defense as well (note: advanced stats have only been around since 07/08). There's no doubt that there were some years he had an average or below avg forward group - but so did other teams such as Phx, NJD. There is a question whether he's capable of developing forward prospects or whether Nash drafted poorly in the forward dept. It's usually assistant coaches respon to coach defense, coaches job to coach forwards. Why has there never really been strong forwards to come out of that team? I also question his usage of the his forwards (zone starts mainly). That team had Hamhuis, Suter, Weber for some years and have been a top 10 puck possession team exactly once. They have been in the bottom half of league more than top half under his tenure. For a defense first team, they have only been top 5 in corsi-against for one yr. NJD hasn't had a Weber/Suter/Hamhuis in last few yrs, have weak forward group - but have been top 10 puck possession team for last 6 of 7 yrs. They are a defense first team with stellar defense possession stats - which lead to strong overall possesion stats. It's is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningWild Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Experienced coaches don't need to study advanced stats, all they have to do is analyze the game as it's happening and adjust accordingly. The Canucks need a calm, patient, details oriented coach. Trotz is that coach. Hitchcock, McLellan, Quenville, Julien and AV disagree. Each of those coaches have openly been tied to using advanced stats, some of them get advanced stats updates between periods - and all have top possession teams in league yr after yr. Of course they don't use them for everything, not sure that's even possible. I'm saying the Canucks need a coach like that, a coach who uses unique deployment patterns when they don't have the best roster to utilize their group. Tortz hasn't been that man. Look at what Trotz has been given and what hes done in a low income market. Given a much larger richer market and a team like the Canucks hes perfect for the job. We had to go thru them in 2011 and although they werent a worrying threat, look where he got with what he had. Like the man said himself he had a top 5 offensive team when they had the players for it (P. Kariya days). He's more than shown an ability to adapt to make the team the best it can be for the players he's given. Even if he brings a more defensive stye, which I dont believe he will do it'll be good to finally have a defence capable of shutting down teams, and with his ability to adapt he's proven he's more than capable of getting offence out of players who are strictly offensive players, you know, like the Sedins. He's multi faceted and proven an ability to bring the best out of whatever syle team he's given. Unlike Torts who cares about nothing but shot blocking and defensive play and has proven an inability to adapt and only an ability to force a team to adapt to his style. He has a ton of experience, however, stats may be misleading as his entire tenure is with one expansion team in a smaller market. This team needs a coach like Trotz that can bring out the best in every player from the Sedins to Sestito to Edler. I can't really speak for anything before 07/08 cause they didn't keep advanced stats before then. But I will say P. Kariya days were a much different NHL IMO, much like when Torts won his Cup. The league has changed drastically guys like Torts have failed to adapt, I'm concerned Trotz is the same type of coach. I'm not concerned that he'd bring a defense first approach to Van, I don't really need this team to be exciting to watch. My main concern is I want them to be a top possession team - cause without that they're not getting anywhere near the Cup. And Trotz has never produced possesion stats over 52%. It's concerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Hitchcock, McLellan, Quenville, Julien and AV disagree. Each of those coaches have openly been tied to using advanced stats, some of them get advanced stats updates between periods - and all have top possession teams in league yr after yr. Of course they don't use them for everything, not sure that's even possible. I'm saying the Canucks need a coach like that, a coach who uses unique deployment patterns when they don't have the best roster to utilize their group. Tortz hasn't been that man. Those are all old school coaches that you listed. Do you have evidence that Trotz doesn't do the same thing, or are you just assuming? Because from everything I've heard, he's a systems coach, and is very detail oriented. I would be surprised if he didn't look at possession numbers. And regardless, an assistant can easily relay that to the head coach if that's the way he likes to coach. Like I said though, good coaches can simply watch what each line is doing and get a good feeling for how well they're playing. Plus which opposing lines to match up against. It doesn't take advanced stats to know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningWild Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Those are all old school coaches that you listed. Do you have evidence that Trotz doesn't do the same thing, or are you just assuming? Because from everything I've heard, he's a systems coach, and is very detail oriented. I would be surprised if he didn't look at possession numbers. And regardless, an assistant can easily relay that to the head coach if that's the way he likes to coach. Like I said though, good coaches can simply watch what each line is doing and get a good feeling for how well they're playing. Plus which opposing lines to match up against. It doesn't take advanced stats to know that. Our version of 'old school' differs, cause their usage of advanced stats implies they aren't old school from my perspective. Do I have evidence he doesn't do the same thing? I have never read any piece about Trotz and advanced stats - so I assume he doesn't use them. Perhaps you have evidence he does? By his teams metrics I also assume he doesn't. Could he learn? Definitely. The question is, does he want to? Is he willing to implement new metrics into his coaching techniques? That is the million dollar question for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herberts Vasiljevs Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Same here, I would be delighted with Trotz, one of the absolute best coaches in the league IMO. Not enough people realize how lucky we are. Trotz is falling right into our laps. I'm still questioning why he got fired in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 If Trotz can solve the puzzle that is Alexander Edler then he would be my hero. I honestly think he's the only man capable of doing so. If not him, throw in the towel and ship him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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