The I Support BC Teachers thread

[Heretic]

Teachers want to do the least amount of work for the most amount of money teach the kids.

Govt wants the most amount of work for the least amount of money

Both sides will claim it's for the children

And on and on we go.

FTFY

Sorry, it's not about the money (from the teacher's point of view) though that would be nice.

Many people don't get raises for 4 or 5 years.

Many people have to do more work with less resources.

Yes there are many ways to save on admin costs.

So far the government has cut costs by having the teachers spend their own money to buy needed supplies.

Unfortunately, the teachers have no more disposable income left (see lack of raises).

The union does NOT control the education system.

The teacher do NOT control the education system.

The government DOES.

For 10 years they have done nothing but cut budgets.

They could have easily implemented some of the suggestions others have proposed (like consolidate districts - but that leads to an issue with TOC's). The problem is, they haven't.

The union can't make that change as they don't own it. Neither do the teachers.

Am I pro union? Nope. Can't stand them. However, IMHO, this is all on the Government, in particular Christy Clark.

I can't speak for all teachers and won't generalize like some people here, but the teachers I know just want to teach.

Oh, as far as only working 9.5 months. Break that down to hours instead.

Most people, due to labour laws, work 35-40 hours per week.

Go on the high side and that equals 2000 hours per year (2 weeks vacation).

Teachers I know work on average 50 hours per week over 42 weeks a year (see, most have to prepare their classrooms before the school actually starts) which equals 2100 hours per year. Some work more than that.

[Heretic]

Lol. Please that useless article about babysitting? Half the teachers in this province may as well be babysitters since they clearly aren't educating anyone.

Speaking of over generalizing....

[Ghostsof1915]

The problem IMO isn't a lack of people participating, it's in a complete and utter lack of any party worth voting for or caring about.

I don't know what's sadder, that the Liberals got re-elected AGAIN last election or that the Liberals sadly were still the best choice. That doesn't exactly discourage apathy.

Do you honestly think the way things are being run the NDP/Conservatives/Green Party could do worse?

[aGENT]

Speaking of spin I'm pretty the gov't could do a better job of finding the money if they didn't spend $15 million of gov't money on those partisan "Canada starts here" BC job plan ads.

Stop attacking and start fixing.

I don't disagree with your statement but how does your comment have anything to do with the broken education system or the vast administrative waste in it?

Stop trying to spin, stop trying to attack. Stop trying to finger point.

FIX IT.

[aGENT]

Do you honestly think the way things are being run the NDP/Conservatives/Green Party could do worse?

No my problem is that I don't think they could do better. Which is what we not only deserve but should be demanding.

[Langdon Algur]

Stop attacking and start fixing.

I don't disagree with your statement but how does your comment have anything to do with the broken education system or the vast administrative waste in it?

Stop trying to spin, stop trying to attack. Stop trying to finger point.

FIX IT.

As Heretic said the gov't controls the education system so the gov't alone can fix it. I'll do my part in 2017 by voting NDP but that's pretty much all I (for the record I'm not a teacher I work in local gov't) can do.

[vavoom]

Solution: Government ups budgets 20%, Existing Teachers take a pay cut of 20%. All extra money used to hire more teachers. Everybody except the government and existing teachers are happy.

[aGENT]

As Heretic said the gov't controls the education system so the gov't alone can fix it. I'll do my part in 2017 by voting NDP but that's pretty much all I (for the record I'm not a teacher I work in local gov't) can do.

And what information do you have that shows the NDP if given power would cut administrative waste and actually reform the education system?

You might get some raises/funding/resources (and even that's debatable given economic and political realities) but the system will still be broken and wasteful and back to the exact same problems within a decade.

We ARE the government. We're their bosses. The BCTF needs to get those three things out to the public to get the public to demand our government correct them.

-Administrative waste.

-System reform.

-Public pressure towards government to fix them.

Nobody is falling for the warm and fuzzy spin "it's about the children" anymore because it's not. It's about funding, taxes, systemic waste and a broken system.

Even better, come up with a viable plan to do those things and sell it to the people to force the government to action.

[Heretic]

Solution: Government ups budgets 20%, Existing Teachers take a pay cut of 20%. All extra money used to hire more teachers. Everybody except the government and existing teachers are happy.

Have you ever taken a 20% pay cut?

I recently (2 years ago) took an 11% pay cut and went from 5 weeks vacation to only 3.

The reason I did it - I was forced into it. Benefit was, I get to work from home now, in BC.

Still, 11% pay cut when I was living to that level has taken it's toll, that and the fact that my wife is a TOC here in BC and not on full time has caused us to do some debt restructuring and change spending habits.

Just to lighten it up, a friend just posted this on FB:

[aGENT]

Solution: Government ups budgets 20%, Existing Teachers take a pay cut of 20%. All extra money used to hire more teachers. Everybody except the government and existing teachers are happy.

*and taxpayers.

[Heretic]

And what information do you have that shows the NDP if given power would cut administrative waste and actually reform the education system?

You might get some raises/funding/resources (and even that's debatable given economic and political realities) but the system will still be broken and wasteful and back to the exact same problems within a decade.

We ARE the government. We're their bosses. The BCTF needs to get those three things out to the public to get the public to demand our government correct them.

-Administrative waste.

-System reform.

-Public pressure towards government to fix them.

Nobody is falling for the warm and fuzzy spin "it's about the children" anymore because it's not. It's about funding, taxes, systemic waste and a broken system.

Even better, come up with a viable plan to do those things and sell it to the people to force the government to action.

I agree with you there.

[Monty]

My wife is a teacher and we live in Manitoba. Can't comment on other teachers, but my wife doesn't get 2 months off in the summer. During the school year, she gets to the school at 8am and gets home between 8-9pm everyday, and we live 10 minutes from her school. During the summer, she takes July off and then she is back in the school everyday in August preparing for the next year. She gets paid a little over $60K/year and deserves every cent she gets.

[goalie13]

As for working 9.5 months, yes they do but they only get paid for that period, although full time teachers (not subs) can choose to strech their payout for the full year if they wish. As for what they get paid please read the article I posted above.

Are they stretching it over a year, or compressing it over 10 months? Teachers are paid an annual salary. If it wasn't an annual salary, they would have the option of collecting E.I. over the summer (like T.O.C.s who are paid hourly).

I do support the teachers, and I think they do deserve somewhat of a raise, but I also think that response (that they are only paid for 10 months) hurts their credibility. Teachers make better than average earnings no matter whether you look at it as an annual salary or ten months pay. Either way, it's more than what most of the taxpayers make, who the teachers are hoping to win support from.

As for the rest of the issues, there has to be some middle ground here somewhere. Is it time to bring in a mediator to cut through the BS from both sides and get things moving? I'm just so tired of the whole thing.

[elvis15]

What if I want to support the Government's side?

But seriously, here's how one of my teacher friends described her take on the current state of things:

I wonder if Christy has ever had 24 of her son's friends over for a birthday party. Sixteen of those friends don't speak English as their 1st language. One was just diagnosed (at the age of 9) with a learning disability and one just diagnosed with ADHD. Two others are on a (long) wait list for a Psych Ed assessment due to attention concerns and written output delays. The other four? Well, they will have be just fine on their own. Because there is only one of her and no additional support. Oh, and the party is six hours long and she is mandated to make sure they are all fully engaged and fairly disciplined at all times. She will have to carefully plan this party on her own time and dip into her own financial resources, of course, if this is going to work at all.

Has Christy ever pulled off a party like this day after day? I wonder.

That might not be typical of every classroom but it illustrates a point. Our children's education is kind of important, you know?

[inane]

Are they stretching it over a year, or compressing it over 10 months? Teachers are paid an annual salary. If it wasn't an annual salary, they would have the option of collecting E.I. over the summer (like T.O.C.s who are paid hourly).

I do support the teachers, and I think they do deserve somewhat of a raise, but I also think that response (that they are only paid for 10 months) hurts their credibility. Teachers make better than average earnings no matter whether you look at it as an annual salary or ten months pay. Either way, it's more than what most of the taxpayers make, who the teachers are hoping to win support from.

As for the rest of the issues, there has to be some middle ground here somewhere. Is it time to bring in a mediator to cut through the BS from both sides and get things moving? I'm just so tired of the whole thing.

Don't you think we should be paying people in charge of educating our children more than the average taxpayer? We don't expect doctors or lawyers to make what average tax payers make, why do we expect teachers should?

[BeefcakeBo]

What if I want to support the Government's side?

http://youtu.be/4OT_kw48rI4

But seriously, here's how one of my teacher friends described her take on the current state of things:

That might not be typical of every classroom but it illustrates a point. Our children's education is kind of important, you know?

And a wage increase will fix any of these problems?

[goalie13]

Don't you think we should be paying people in charge of educating our children more than the average taxpayer? We don't expect doctors or lawyers to make what average tax payers make, why do we expect teachers should?

I totally agree. My comment wasn't based on what they make, just directed at the rebuttal that they are only paid for 10 months. When you are looking for favour from people that make less than you do, it's a fairly hollow complaint.

[BeefcakeBo]

Don't you think we should be paying people in charge of educating our children more than the average taxpayer? We don't expect doctors or lawyers to make what average tax payers make, why do we expect teachers should?

They don't make what the "average" taxpayers make. They make considerably more.

[Darth Kane]

I don't support either side. Neither of them is willing to pull their heads out of their arses to actually fix the broken system and administrative waste that are the real issues.

Teachers want more money.

Government has no money.

Kids and their parents (taxpayers) lose.

Rinse and repeat.

I'm tired of this endless and stupid PR battle the two sides are locked in. FIX THE @#$%'ING SYSTEM.

This! I'm tired of this never ending cycle of teachers not being happy and the school boards crying poor. I could really care less who's fault it is, but because the system can't get it's act together our kids suffer. It seems that at any given point during the school year there is a teachers strike somewhere in the country, or the threat of one. Enough already.

[inane]

They don't make what the "average" taxpayers make. They make considerably more.

So you think they just deserve the average? Why?