Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Botchford: Do the Canucks want to be "true" cup contenders or do they simply want to make playoffs as soon as possible?


Southpop45

Recommended Posts

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/hockey/canucks-hockey/Botchford+While+Canucks+retool+their+players/9889246/story.html

interesting notes from Jason Botchford of the province. Here is a breakdown of the important notes if you dont want to read then full things:

1) the west has become extremley ough to win in, teams like CHI-Town and LA have star players that are 26 or younger and will be good for a very long time

2) The Canucks on the other hand, have most of thier core age 30 or older.

3) If the goal is simply to get back in the playoffs then that is possible if the sedins become elite players again, burrows scores 25-30 goals, and kassian takes a huge step in his development next year

4) If the goal is to be a "true" cup contender then the canucks will need all the assests from note 3 and a lot more. A #1 d-man, a good 3rd line center, and a completly new 4th line

5) Since all that happening is unlikley, Botchford suggests that the canucks may need to sacrafice a few years of playoff hockey in order to aquire the assests they need to become a true cup contender again

My personal thoughts:

this couldnt make more sense to me. after watching the hawks and kings go at each other this round it has become very clear that Vancouver is nowhere near the level that the dominant teams in the west are at. the hawks and kings drafted and developed their core players for years and its all paying off for them now. LA and Chicago both spent a couple of years at the bottom of the NHL to aquire these players through the draft and thats what Vancouver needs to do now. Spend a couple year at the bottom draft and develop well and it will pay off down the road. what do you guys think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just making the playoffs is pointless because as mentioned we are just going to get dominated by teams like Chi and LA, as well as a few other teams in the west.

We'll be at the bottom for a while and hopefully do the same that these teams have done, assuming we develop whatever players we get well

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the ownership wants to keep this team competitive for next year because of the season ticket thing. I just hope that they accept the fact that they are just not as good as the competition anymore and assets are moved at the trade deadline. I think that is how it will play out.

A potential Kesler trade at the 2014 draft.

Some players moved out at the trade deadline (Burrows and Edler)

More trades at the draft.

The Canucks are lucky in the way that they have a lot of valuable assets that could be had for first round picks or good prospects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well thankyou mr Botchford. It might be new insight to him but some of us have been saying this all along. We want a cup. Not half baked teams that make the first round. I am prepared to wait to get it.

I think whenever Botchford gets writers block which is probably often, he just steals ideas from CDC. At least 50% of us want a mini rebuild and are ok with trading an unhappy Kesler if the return is good. I agree with Botchford, every team that made the final 4 has a number 1 stud d-man. We need Pouliot from the Pens!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A 'good' enough playoff team will do. Don't need to be a juggernaut thought it would be preferred, also a very weak playoff team won't do much too though all teams in the west from now on will be good as it's so tough.

Bottom line: once you're in, you're in and you have the same chance as the team beside you to take home the Cup. Reminds of the stupid thing Burke said a few years ago in TO in thag he'd rather be a non playoff team than an 8th seed team...and then LA goes on and wins the Cup as an 8th seed :picard:

...especially in the west, if you make the postseason, you have a chance and that's what I love about Benning's and Linden's mentality cause they've repeatedly said they'll push the team for playoffs each year being the underlying goal and if you have that you have a chance to win.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who saw the Rangers shutting down Crosby and Montreal embarassing Boston?

Anything can happen in the playoffs thanks to good coaching and matchups. Sure the West seems fixed with these playoff performing teams constantly ending up at the Finals, but the Canucks match up VERY well against Chicago and the other teams in their division like St. Louis and even Colorado.

If we can squeak into the playoffs, thanks to the new format we might not have to play a Californian team for a while. If we end up with a 1st round matchup against say Chicago or St. Louis, the Canucks are actually a favourite in that situation (I know Chicago look amazing right now but we've had their number of late, I believe the only team that has a winning record against them ). We know San Jose is likely to blow itself up so they may not slaughter us anymore with their new team as well, so if we get a 2nd round match up against them and a 3rd round match up against say St. Louis (who we actually dominated even last season) we could go deep.

Match-ups are everything, and so is a season's worth of turn around. Last year the Rangers missed the playoffs - they got a new coach, made some BIG trades at the deadline and now they're in the Finals. If they can do it, the Canucks can too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

A 'good' enough playoff team will do. Don't need to be a juggernaut thought it would be preferred, also a very weak playoff team won't do much too though all teams in the west from now on will be good as it's so tough.

Bottom line: once you're in, you're in and you have the same chance as the team beside you to take home the Cup. Reminds of the stupid thing Burke said a few years ago in TO in thag he'd rather be a non playoff team than an 8th seed team...and then LA goes on and wins the Cup as an 8th seed :picard:

...especially in the west, if you make the postseason, you have a chance and that's what I love about Benning's and Linden's mentality cause they've repeatedly said they'll push the team for playoffs each year being the underlying goal and if you have that you have a chance to win.

 

people constanly use LA as an example of squeezing into the playoffs and winning it all. yes anything can happen, but LA was on the verge of becoming the elite team that they are today. There young core was already set and thats the point of this thread. our core is on the wrong side of 30 and trending downwards with no real superstar talent prospect in place within the system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hopefully you are right Down Under, cause there is no way the owners will accept nucks to suck for 3-4 years in order to hopefully build a cup winning team. If all the CDC members were willing to buy the season tickets forthe next four year then perhaps yes, but this is a business, and I doubt the owners will be saying ok to not being able to compete for the amount of years suggested. Also just because you suck for 3-4 years doesn't guarentee you'll win a cup. If it did Coilers would surely win it next year...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What we don't want to do is intentionally step backwards. This year we had a Go, and came up with a 6th overall pick and let our young guys mature in junior.

We should have a goal of making the play off's. But we should not be mortgaging the future to get there, or certainly not to become contenders. The only substantially legitimate part of the article notes our core is 30 something. Overkill now and trading prospects and picks to try and win sets us up to be the Flames.

But we have Kassian a top 12 pick, Horvat, a top ten, this year a top 6, Shinkaruk, cough Schroeder, Gaunce and Jensen, plus moneyball prospects in Hutton, Cassels, Corrado, Subban, Cedarholme Grenier and Fox competing to join them. By 2015 there will be a solid crew of young players ready to contribute.

We need only to add some blue chip D talent, perhaps a play making centreman to really round out our development potential.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/hockey/canucks-hockey/Botchford+While+Canucks+retool+their+players/9889246/story.html

interesting notes from Jason Botchford of the province. Here is a breakdown of the important notes if you dont want to read then full things:

1) the west has become extremley ough to win in, teams like CHI-Town and LA have star players that are 26 or younger and will be good for a very long time

2) The Canucks on the other hand, have most of thier core age 30 or older.

3) If the goal is simply to get back in the playoffs then that is possible if the sedins become elite players again, burrows scores 25-30 goals, and kassian takes a huge step in his development next year

4) If the goal is to be a "true" cup contender then the canucks will need all the assests from note 3 and a lot more. A #1 d-man, a good 3rd line center, and a completly new 4th line

5) Since all that happening is unlikley, Botchford suggests that the canucks may need to sacrafice a few years of playoff hockey in order to aquire the assests they need to become a true cup contender again

My personal thoughts:

this couldnt make more sense to me. after watching the hawks and kings go at each other this round it has become very clear that Vancouver is nowhere near the level that the dominant teams in the west are at. the hawks and kings drafted and developed their core players for years and its all paying off for them now. LA and Chicago both spent a couple of years at the bottom of the NHL to aquire these players through the draft and thats what Vancouver needs to do now. Spend a couple year at the bottom draft and develop well and it will pay off down the road. what do you guys think?

Chicago and LA did not intentionally tank.

And we just re signed the Sedin's. Plus our D core al have 2 to 4 years on their contracts, same with Kesler.

Our window to tank is already gone...

Go Anaheim's route, plus Lou. They had one year out of the play off's and traded Pronger. We might trade Kesler. The rest is people talking out of their, uhm, behind...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The one year we decide to do bad and we are choosing between Ehlers and Ritchie :picard: just our luck. We need one or two bonafide prospects. We are hopeful, and I mean hopeful, Horvat reaches anywhere near Bergeron's level . Hopeful Shink is anywhere near Kane's level, and with his injury even more so. After that we got scraps trying to piece together to make a steak.

Too bad we didn't make that Oilers trade last year with Schneids. Could have got Nurse and possibly other pieces if the rumours were true. Now we need to get lucky via FA or just out right suck a** and draft early in the draft. Which doesn't sound like managements plans. Hopefully Benning can get some steals in the draft and steals in some trades. We could use some good luck for once.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hopefully you are right Down Under, cause there is no way the owners will accept nucks to suck for 3-4 years in order to hopefully build a cup winning team. If all the CDC members were willing to buy the season tickets forthe next four year then perhaps yes, but this is a business, and I doubt the owners will be saying ok to not being able to compete for the amount of years suggested. Also just because you suck for 3-4 years doesn't guarentee you'll win a cup. If it did Coilers would surely win it next year...

^^^^ This is bang on! One must consider the season ticket base. You want to be as competitive as you can. As said previous, once you are in the playoffs, many things can happen and some of those things are not the obvious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who saw the Rangers shutting down Crosby and Montreal embarassing Boston?

Anything can happen in the playoffs thanks to good coaching and matchups. Sure the West seems fixed with these playoff performing teams constantly ending up at the Finals, but the Canucks match up VERY well against Chicago and the other teams in their division like St. Louis and even Colorado.

If we can squeak into the playoffs, thanks to the new format we might not have to play a Californian team for a while. If we end up with a 1st round matchup against say Chicago or St. Louis, the Canucks are actually a favourite in that situation (I know Chicago look amazing right now but we've had their number of late, I believe the only team that has a winning record against them ). We know San Jose is likely to blow itself up so they may not slaughter us anymore with their new team as well, so if we get a 2nd round match up against them and a 3rd round match up against say St. Louis (who we actually dominated even last season) we could go deep.

Match-ups are everything, and so is a season's worth of turn around. Last year the Rangers missed the playoffs - they got a new coach, made some BIG trades at the deadline and now they're in the Finals. If they can do it, the Canucks can too.

This might be your best post D Under?

Not that we should be banking on a new coach / GM having an easy crack at boosting us directly back into the mix. Can it happens?

Sure, but...

We have a lot of roster tweaking to be that matchup team. Yes, the Twins probably have more scoring potential than the Rag's top line. But they have Dorsett and Dubinsky playing the roles Malhotra and Torres used to physically. We don't have that anymore! Stepan matches Kesler, Nash is overpaid but is a handful well beyond Daniel even when not scoring and Kreider's speed and size is an absolute nightmare for opponents.

Zuccarello, Moore and Brian Boyle each offer distinct size or speed problems, Richards offers depth play making every time over the boards. Their 4th line and 2knd line both have punch we cannot match both in terms of talent and physical dominance. Then they added a lightning jolt of speed and puck magic at the deadline in St Louis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a former D man ,Benning knows the importance of the position.

Gillis had no clue and maintained a plethora of defensive d men instead of retaining a puck moving #1 d men.

Anybody else get the feeling that Botchford reads CDC for his material?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A 'good' enough playoff team will do. Don't need to be a juggernaut thought it would be preferred, also a very weak playoff team won't do much too though all teams in the west from now on will be good as it's so tough.

Bottom line: once you're in, you're in and you have the same chance as the team beside you to take home the Cup. Reminds of the stupid thing Burke said a few years ago in TO in thag he'd rather be a non playoff team than an 8th seed team...and then LA goes on and wins the Cup as an 8th seed :picard:

...especially in the west, if you make the postseason, you have a chance and that's what I love about Benning's and Linden's mentality cause they've repeatedly said they'll push the team for playoffs each year being the underlying goal and if you have that you have a chance to win.

That's the thing though, this Canucks team with this personnel has been at the top of the standings and still couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Now the core is older so even if they improve enough to scrape into the playoffs as a low seed, realistically they dont have a chance at getting the cup. This is not so much that the Canucks are a terrible team now, but because several other teams in the west have improved drastically while the Canucks have regressed. We need to get younger and more talented if we want to be competitive with the likes of Chicago, LA, Colorado, etc. etc..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Goal should always be to make the playoffs first. Sacrificing few years of playoff hockey for the future? Who know we will actually be able to draft players like Toewes, Kane, Doughty, Kopitar, Keith?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Making the playoffs should never be a goal. In the Canucks' current plight, it should be viewed as a positive step in a team's ascendency. The Canucks could have made the playoffs this year, but from what I see, they would have been used to mop the floor. I see no benefit in that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...