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Why does Benning want Reinhart so much?

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#31 rawkdrummer

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:08 PM

If Benning wants him then that's good enough for me but I hope we don't lose Horvat or Shinkaruk to get him.


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#32 DeNiro

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:09 PM

Nobody expected Keith, Weber or Lidstrom to be anywhere NEAR the kind of players they are. In fact, some didn't even expect them to make the NHL when they were a prospect, farless become elite defensemen. Those teams just lucked out when they picked those three, and maybe saw things in them that no one else saw. We can't just bank on late round suprises if were looking for a franchise defenseman.

 

On the other hand, people expected players like E.Johnson, Hedman, Gudbranson, Barker, Bouwmeester, Jovanovski, Hamrlik, Phillips, and J.Johnson to be elite number 1 D-men. Guess what? None of them reached or likely will reach expectations.

 

History has shown, taking D-men in the top 3 is a big risk no matter how big and well they can skate.

 

Way more franchise D-men have been taken later in the first, or even in later rounds, than in the top 3.


Edited by DeNiro, 23 June 2014 - 08:10 PM.

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#33 meh_wassup

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:09 PM

If Ekblad is the consensus number 1 pick, then take a look at the list of number 2 picks from previous years:

 

Landeskog

Seguin

Van Riemsdyk

J.Staal

Ryan

Malkin

E.Staal

Spezza

Heatley

D.Sedin

Marleau

 

If history has shown anything, its that the number 2 rated players in drafts more often than not turn into elite players. Especially if they`re forwards. Number 1 ranked D-men on the other hand have a way lower chance of reaching their potential.

 

Reinhart projects to be a first line star. Something we`ll need just as much as a number 1 D-man, with Kesler on his way out, and Henrik getting closer to the end of his career.

 

I see your point but I still think since Ekblad is projected to be an elite Dman and there's LOTS of first line projected players in next year's draft I think we should go for Ekblad this year and snatch an elite center next year. We're in good position to get both so why not. You always have to look ahead and if we're not as crappy as next year as we were this year then we can always trade into the top 10.


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#34 Kulikov

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:09 PM

Eckblad is Weber 2.0, it would be really dumb not to draft him if we had the #1 pick. There's been maybe 3 teams in the last 30 years that have won a cup without a #1 D-man, it's time to get with the program.


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#35 viking mama

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:13 PM

I think Ekblad will live-up to his #1 ranking and billing,...but does anyone here still think that Tyler Myers can become... Zdeno Chara? Ha! Defensemen at the NHL level have pressures....that are hard to skirt & avoid. Ekblad is perhaps the only defensemen in this draft... that everyone can see transitioning early & excelling. 


Edited by viking mama, 23 June 2014 - 08:14 PM.

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#36 canucks155

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:15 PM

I have to admit, Reinhart is growing on me. I used to be of the mindset that centers are always available in every draft including this one w/ Bennett, Draisaitl, Dal Colle and Nylander. But Reinhart is unbelievable. I'm not sure he plays w/ any1 decent, but he still puts up incredible #'s. in both the regular season and continues this in the playoffs. Had he been playing on some stacked team, I think he would have closer to 150 points, no joke. He's played everywhere and has won basically everywhere. He was apparently called by 1 scout "the smartest player in the NHL."When he gets drafted of course. He doesn't have the physical gifts of other prospects, but he can play the game 5 plays ahead of every1 else. 

 

The thing I am most intrigued by him is that he does all this, w/o playing w/ anybody good. Imagine if he played w/ Shinkaruk or something. 

 

At the end of the day, you can't go wrong w/ Reinhart or Ekblad. But, if we move up to #1, expect the kid from West Van to be picked because there would be riots if we passed on the best ranked BC on the board.


Edited by canucks155, 23 June 2014 - 08:16 PM.

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#37 ftmN

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:17 PM

I would personally offer the same if not very similar deal(s) to Buffalo, as I see Florida holding onto their pick and drafting Ekblad. If they do give it up and Ekblad isnt taken, then win win. 


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#38 DeNiro

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:18 PM

 

I see your point but I still think since Ekblad is projected to be an elite Dman and there's LOTS of first line projected players in next year's draft I think we should go for Ekblad this year and snatch an elite center next year. We're in good position to get both so why not. You always have to look ahead and if we're not as crappy as next year as we were this year then we can always trade into the top 10.

 

There's a D-man projected to be an elite number 1 every year. Most years they don't pan out.

 

Just last year it was "Mackinnon vs Jones".

 

Jones was projected to go first or second. Colorado ended up taking Mackinnon and Jones dropped to 4th. I don't think any GM would take Jones over Mackinnon at this point.

 

Like I said, top D-men are much easier to draft in the second or third round than forwards. Better go with the odds and take the forward. There's a reason why Doughty's and Pronger's don't come around that often.


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#39 CynideSnipe

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:18 PM

 

On the other hand, people expected players like E.Johnson, Hedman, Gudbranson, Barker, Bouwmeester, Jovanovski, Hamrlik, Phillips, and J.Johnson to be elite number 1 D-men. Guess what? None of them reached or likely will reach expectations.

 

History has shown, taking D-men in the top 3 is a big risk no matter how big and well they can skate.

 

Way more franchise D-men have been taken later in the first, or even in later rounds, than in the top 3.

While it may be true that quite a few franchise D-men have been taken in the later rounds. Some have been taken in the top 5 aswell. Such as Doughty (2nd OVR), Pietangelo (4th OVR), Seth Jones (4th OVR) is going to be very good. Ryan Murray (2nd OVR) looks like he's going to be a very solid top 2 D-man, and Hedman (2nd OVR) is a very good D-man, and is going to be great in the future. I don't know why you listed him with people like Barker/Hamrlik.. Not to mention, under a good coach, Bogosian can be a really good 25min stay at home D-man.


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#40 brian42

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:20 PM

Our #6 & Tanev to Edm for their #3.

 

We get one of Rhino, Bennett, or Draisatl. A #3 would be ok.

moving from 6'th to 3'rd should be a little easier than 1'st.  Edmonton doesn't need another teenager they need vets and help on D.  If somehow the Canucks could convoke a guy like Garrison to waive that would be a great trade.  I'd also trade Tanev/Corrado but would perfer an older player.

 

6'th + Garrison or Tanev or Corrado or Gaunce for 3'rd overall  

 

Ekblad at 1 Bennet at 2 canucks get Reinhart at 3

 

if not your choice of Draisati or Bennet would be pretty good 

 

this would be an excellent deal if they could swing it


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#41 Pistachios

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:24 PM

Our #6 & Tanev to Edm for their #3.
 
We get one of Rhino, Bennett, or Draisatl. A #3 would be ok.


This. They will really want to have Tanev tho
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#42 DeNiro

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:26 PM

While it may be true that quite a few franchise D-men have been taken in the later rounds. Some have been taken in the top 5 aswell. Such as Doughty (2nd OVR), Pietangelo (4th OVR), Seth Jones (4th OVR) is going to be very good. Ryan Murray (2nd OVR) looks like he's going to be a very solid top 2 D-man, and Hedman (2nd OVR) is a very good D-man, and is going to be great in the future. I don't know why you listed him with people like Barker/Hamrlik.. Not to mention, under a good coach, Bogosian can be a really good 25min stay at home D-man.

 

We're talking "franchise D-men". Hedman and Murray aren't those. And we're talking top 3, not top5.

 

There's been more busts and D-men not reaching their potential, than elite franchise defensemen; which was my point.

 

Again, based on history Reinhart will be an elite first line center. Ekblad will go anywhere from a franchise D-man, to a good top 4 guy. People always hype up D-men as the next coming, but more often than not, it's just hype.


Edited by DeNiro, 23 June 2014 - 08:27 PM.

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#43 R3aL

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:29 PM

I mean, I know that he's a hometown boy and all, and he could be a great 1st line centre. He cares about defense, and he has the potential to be a Kopitar/Begeron type of player. But, do we really need him? We already have Horvat who I am quite confident is going to be our legit 1st line centre. And Shinkaruk can play centre as well. Besides, I've looked into him, and I've watched quite a few videos on him now.. and I really don't see anything special in him. He's got a super high hockey IQ, but an average skater, decent hands, very good playmaking, but that's about it.

 

If we get the 1st overall pick from Florida, I would be dissapointed in JB if he didn't pick Ekblad. Ekblad is one of only 4 players ever to be granted exceptional status along with Sean Day (16), Connor McDavid (17), and John Tavares (23). Ekblad is going to be that lethal and critical Top 2 Norris worthy defenseman that teams win championships with. An exceedingly large number of people say that he plays just like Shea Weber. Huge Cannon of a shot. Great skater. Great at defense. Quarterbacking the PP.  And provides offense as well. He as EVERYTHING. He has the body of a 28 year old and thinks like a 10 year vet. And at 6'4, 216 pounds, he's definetly going to step RIGHT into the core of the team from day one.

 

 

Just because he doesnt have a flashy highlight vid?

 

Those are lofty expectations to put on Ekblad, not saying Reinhart>Ekblad

 

I like both, only thing is Dman develop differently than forwards


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#44 AK_19

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:31 PM

While it may be true that quite a few franchise D-men have been taken in the later rounds. Some have been taken in the top 5 aswell. Such as Doughty (2nd OVR), Pietangelo (4th OVR), Seth Jones (4th OVR) is going to be very good. Ryan Murray (2nd OVR) looks like he's going to be a very solid top 2 D-man, and Hedman (2nd OVR) is a very good D-man, and is going to be great in the future. I don't know why you listed him with people like Barker/Hamrlik.. Not to mention, under a good coach, Bogosian can be a really good 25min stay at home D-man.


First off, it is still too early to tell with Seth Jones, Ryan Murray, Bogosian or Hedman. Nobody today considers these people franchise dmen. That leaves literally 2 prospects since Pronger to be considered elite dmen. The other poster mentioned Barker/Hamrlik because they were highly rated as propects and were drafted in the top 3/5. The other issue with the potential franchise dmen is that it takes much longer to develop into those players. Even if Ekblad does become a franchise D it may not be until 24+.
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#45 brian42

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:31 PM

Or if the Canucks get the #1 and want reinhart it would be smart to trade it to Edmonton who surely want Ekblad for the 3'rd overall plus their 2'nd rd pick or something more valuable.

 

canucks #1 overall + Hansen +  36'th overall for 3'rd overall + Yakupov? 

 

that would be nice Horvat + Hansen + 6'th overall + 36'th overall for Yakupov & Reinhart 


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#46 CynideSnipe

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:33 PM

 

We're talking "franchise D-men". Hedman and Murray aren't those. And we're talking top 3, not top5.

 

There's been more busts and D-men not reaching their potential, than elite franchise defensemen; which was my point.

 

Again, based on history Reinhart will be an elite first line center. Ekblad will go anywhere from a franchise D-man, to a good top 4 guy. People always hype up D-men as the next coming, but more often than not, it's just hype.

Hedman could become a franchise D-man. And the reason why I expanded to top 5, is because there are alot of times when a D man has a good chance of going 1st, and then he doesn't infact go 1st, he normally doesn't drop right to #2. Since forwords are obviously the most popular position and teams are more likely to choose a top forward instead of a top D-man due to D-men not being as popular. For e.g, Seth Jones last year.


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#47 DeNiro

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:37 PM

There's been 5 D-men taken 1st overall in the last 30 years.

 

Erik Johnson

Chris Phillips

Bryan Berard

Ed Jovanovski

Roman Hamrlik

 

There's only been one truly elite defenseman taken 1st overall in the last 50 years, and that was Denis Potvin in 1973.

 

If you truly believe Ekblad is such a rare player that he only comes up once every 40 years, then you're really buying into the hype too much.


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#48 CynideSnipe

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:39 PM

First off, it is still too early to tell with Seth Jones, Ryan Murray, Bogosian or Hedman. Nobody today considers these people franchise dmen. That leaves literally 2 prospects since Pronger to be considered elite dmen. The other poster mentioned Barker/Hamrlik because they were highly rated as propects and were drafted in the top 3/5. The other issue with the potential franchise dmen is that it takes much longer to develop into those players. Even if Ekblad does become a franchise D it may not be until 24+.

I never said Jones, Murray, Bogosion, or Hedman to be franchise D-men right now. The only one I said has the potential to be franchise D-man is Hedman. I said Murray looks like he could be a "very solid" top 2 D-man, I said Jones is going to be "very good", and I said Bogosion can become a really good 25min pillar/stay at home D-man. I never said those were franchise D-men.


Edited by CynideSnipe, 23 June 2014 - 08:39 PM.

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#49 AK_19

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:39 PM

Hedman could become a franchise D-man. And the reason why I expanded to top 5, is because there are alot of times when a D man has a good chance of going 1st, and then he doesn't infact go 1st, he normally doesn't drop right to #2. Since forwords are obviously the most popular position and teams are more likely to choose a top forward instead of a top D-man due to D-men not being as popular. For e.g, Seth Jones last year.


Also this:

http://www.denverpos...n-usually-arent
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#50 DollarAndADream

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:43 PM

canucks are in a desperate need for "smart hockey players" not just skilled... i hope they do get him. not another d man that will eventually ask for 5mill on his next contract!

If Ekblad turns into Weber I'd throw way more than $5M at him.


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#51 DeNiro

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:43 PM

 

"Historically, D-men take longer to develop at the national level," said legendary former coach Scotty Bowman. "It's tougher to project where they'll be in five years, whereas a supremely skilled forward, you kind of know where they're headed."


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#52 R3aL

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:47 PM

There's been 5 D-men taken 1st overall in the last 30 years.

 

Erik Johnson

Chris Phillips

Bryan Berard

Ed Jovanovski

Roman Hamrlik

 

There's only been one truly elite defenseman taken 1st overall in the last 50 years, and that was Denis Potvin in 1973.

 

If you truly believe Ekblad is such a rare player that he only comes up once every 40 years, then you're really buying into the hype too much.

 

 

 

"Historically, D-men take longer to develop at the national level," said legendary former coach Scotty Bowman. "It's tougher to project where they'll be in five years, whereas a supremely skilled forward, you kind of know where they're headed."

 

 

Yea exactly gooood sir  :)


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#53 ForsbergTheGreat

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:48 PM


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#54 CynideSnipe

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:51 PM

In 5 years, When Ekblad becomes the latest Norris Trophy Winner and Reinhart is still just a 60 pt guy, you can all look back at this thread. :/


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#55 DeNiro

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:56 PM

In 5 years, When Ekblad becomes the latest Norris Trophy Winner and Reinhart is still just a 60 pt guy, you can all look back at this thread. :/

 

Lol. Please share your crystal ball with us!

 

No Ekblad won't be a Norris winner. Please learn history. Drew Doughty hasn't even won the Norris.

 

I wish people would stop pretending they know exactly what players will become.


Edited by DeNiro, 23 June 2014 - 08:56 PM.

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#56 MJDDawg

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:00 PM

I mean, I know that he's a hometown boy and all, and he could be a great 1st line centre. He cares about defense, and he has the potential to be a Kopitar/Begeron type of player. But, do we really need him? We already have Horvat who I am quite confident is going to be our legit 1st line centre. And Shinkaruk can play centre as well. Besides, I've looked into him, and I've watched quite a few videos on him now.. and I really don't see anything special in him. He's got a super high hockey IQ, but an average skater, decent hands, very good playmaking, but that's about it.

 

If we get the 1st overall pick from Florida, I would be dissapointed in JB if he didn't pick Ekblad. Ekblad is one of only 4 players ever to be granted exceptional status along with Sean Day (16), Connor McDavid (17), and John Tavares (23). Ekblad is going to be that lethal and critical Top 2 Norris worthy defenseman that teams win championships with. An exceedingly large number of people say that he plays just like Shea Weber. Huge Cannon of a shot. Great skater. Great at defense. Quarterbacking the PP.  And provides offense as well. He as EVERYTHING. He has the body of a 28 year old and thinks like a 10 year vet. And at 6'4, 216 pounds, he's definetly going to step RIGHT into the core of the team from day one.

 

There's your problem right there. If the whole basis of your argument for not taking Reinhart is that Bo will be our number 1 centre, then the whole argument is flawed.

 

Bo will not be a number 1 centre. Most who've watched him over the years and those who are paid to know such things say his maximum upside will be as a second line centre. These same pundits also believe that he'll likely settle into a third line centre role for a few years. Who really knows how he'll develop, but the reality is that all the numbers and stats used to predict these types of things suggest he will not be a number one centre.


Edited by MJDDawg, 23 June 2014 - 09:01 PM.

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#57 CynideSnipe

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:10 PM

 

There's your problem right there. If the whole basis of your argument for not taking Reinhart is that Bo will be our number 1 centre, then the whole argument is flawed.

 

Bo will not be a number 1 centre. Most who've watched him over the years and those who are paid to know such things say his maximum upside will be as a second line centre. These same pundits also believe that he'll likely settle into a third line centre role for a few years. Who really knows how he'll develop, but the reality is that all the numbers and stats used to predict these types of things suggest he will not be a number one centre.

Shinkaruk can also play centre.


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#58 CynideSnipe

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:12 PM

 

Lol. Please share your crystal ball with us!

 

No Ekblad won't be a Norris winner. Please learn history. Drew Doughty hasn't even won the Norris.

 

I wish people would stop pretending they know exactly what players will become.

If you read my post closely, you will see that I said "in 5 years" In other words, Doughty will mostlikely win a Norris within those 5 years, until Ekblad becomes that superstar D-man.


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#59 Light Bearer

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:16 PM

Lol. Please share your crystal ball with us!
 
No Ekblad won't be a Norris winner. Please learn history. Drew Doughty hasn't even won the Norris.
 
I wish people would stop pretending they know exactly what players will become.

Should we leave that to an expert like you?
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#60 MJDDawg

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:21 PM

Shinkaruk can also play centre.

 

Ah, an even better reason to not draft Reinhart then.

 

Brilliant.


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