Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Crabcakes]

25 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

It does seem like Jake get's the heavy hand, but others seem to get to play through their mistakes.  I look at Pouliot, who was told to 'just play your game and don't worry about mistakes'.  I can only think that it is due to how much older Pouliot is (3yrs over Jake) and that his time is running out.

 

It would be great to see Jake getting big minutes on the 1st line in Utica, but I have some concerns about the coach down there.  I do like the amount of time the Canuck coaching staff spend with Jake going over videos and generally doing some teaching.

 

It seems that the management want to do a slow cook with Virtanen, rather than send him down to Utica and lose touch with him.

I've noticed that too but I think that Pouliot gets trotted out there after making mistakes more because they are thin on defense at the moment.  He has by and large exceeded expectations but especially against Vegas, makes some big mistakes.  To be fair, the 4th Vegas goal where Pouliot made a bad give away, I think he was at the back with the puck and had nobody to pass to.  The team isn't really supporting the puck the way they were early on.  I think they're trying a lot more long passes from the back end now.

 

One big difference is that Pouliot requires waivers and Jake does not.  Not sure if that has anything to do with how Jake is being treated.

[Boudrias]

2 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

I think that Jake brought what was expected in the St Louis game.  He was skating early and taking the body.  His line was looking good.  Then, a when a missed assignment led to the 1st St Louis goal, he had the rug pulled out from under him.  This seems to be typical of Jakes ice time.  Mistakes lead to reduced ice time later in the game.

 

It's a difficult balance because a player needs to be rewarded for good play but on the other hand, punishment for mistakes will lead to him to start playing like he's afraid to make a mistake.

 

At this point, maybe Jake should go back to Utica, play a lot in all situations and get his confidence going again.

I want more TOI for Jake as well. If I thought Green was sitting him and simply not communicating later I would say send him back to Utica. I highly doubt that is the case. Gagner was insurance and I suspect he will get some leeway. IMHO this was never a playoff team and Green is likely taking his time with Virtanen and Gaunce. |By spring I hoope both these players are playing full time and some of the vets are traded. 

[Crabcakes]

6 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I want more TOI for Jake as well. If I thought Green was sitting him and simply not communicating later I would say send him back to Utica. I highly doubt that is the case. Gagner was insurance and I suspect he will get some leeway. IMHO this was never a playoff team and Green is likely taking his time with Virtanen and Gaunce. |By spring I hoope both these players are playing full time and some of the vets are traded. 

Well ya, Green does take his time with young players.

 

Case in point, Brock Boeser.  Sat out first 2 games of the season.  Didn't start on the power play.  When he did get pp time, was used as a net front presence which is probably the spot with the least responsibility.  Only recently is he being used as the trigger man.  Why did it take so long?  Duh.  Well it's because of the way Green brings young guys along gradually.

 

The fact that Jake is experiencing a few more hiccoughs than Boeser explain his ice time.  Jake is very close but less than 10 minutes on average (9.41) doesn't really help is confidence.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Crabcakes

[shazzam]

25 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I think that Jake brought what was expected in the St Louis game.  He was skating early and taking the body.  His line was looking good.  Then, a when a missed assignment led to the 1st St Louis goal, he had the rug pulled out from under him.  This seems to be typical of Jakes ice time.  Mistakes lead to reduced ice time later in the game.

 

It's a difficult balance because a player needs to be rewarded for good play but on the other hand, punishment for mistakes will lead to him to start playing like he's afraid to make a mistake.

 

At this point, maybe Jake should go back to Utica, play a lot in all situations and get his confidence going again.

That's a tough assignment as I don't think he was on the ice. Boeser was still out there after an extended shift.

[mll]

1 hour ago, Crabcakes said:

I think that Jake brought what was expected in the St Louis game.  He was skating early and taking the body.  His line was looking good.  Then, a when a missed assignment led to the 1st St Louis goal, he had the rug pulled out from under him.  This seems to be typical of Jakes ice time.  Mistakes lead to reduced ice time later in the game.

 

It's a difficult balance because a player needs to be rewarded for good play but on the other hand, punishment for mistakes will lead to him to start playing like he's afraid to make a mistake.

 

At this point, maybe Jake should go back to Utica, play a lot in all situations and get his confidence going again.

He didn't skip a shift.  The Sedins simply played about 8min at EV that game and Virtanen plays on that line. 
Green said he liked Virtanen's game.  

[Crabcakes]

16 minutes ago, shazzam said:

That's a tough assignment as I don't think he was on the ice. Boeser was still out there after an extended shift.

Oops.....it was the 2nd goal by Sobotka

[shazzam]

Just now, Crabcakes said:

Oops.....it was the 2nd goal by Sobotka

Ultimately, it was Jake's overaggressiveness that led to the open man. It should never have gotten to that point though, I think the Twins had at least a couple of chances to get that puck out. The Twins and Jake is probably not a match made in heaven. Looks not bad in the offensive zone but defensively could be a nightmare

[Alflives]

18 minutes ago, shazzam said:

Ultimately, it was Jake's overaggressiveness that led to the open man. It should never have gotten to that point though, I think the Twins had at least a couple of chances to get that puck out. The Twins and Jake is probably not a match made in heaven. Looks not bad in the offensive zone but defensively could be a nightmare

The Twins are (sadly) a nightmare defensively no matter who their line-mate is now.  The Twins are old, slow, and soft.  They used to play hard nosed, and control the play, taking hits, and keeping possession.  It’s rather sad now, how they play, but they are our HHOF guys.

[shazzam]

47 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The Twins are (sadly) a nightmare defensively no matter who their line-mate is now.  The Twins are old, slow, and soft.  They used to play hard nosed, and control the play, taking hits, and keeping possession.  It’s rather sad now, how they play, but they are our HHOF guys.

Definitely should be split up at even strength, Green should give it a shot. Might be better for the twins and the team. Not hating on the twins, the fact is that they are 37 now and it's not easy competing against these guys that are in their physical prime.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, shazzam said:

Definitely should be split up at even strength, Green should give it a shot. Might be better for the twins and the team. Not hating on the twins, the fact is that they are 37 now and it's not easy competing against these guys that are in their physical prime.

We all love the Twins.  Maybe it’s best to keep them together, and let their poor play help us slip to some really good draft lottery odds?  It’s most likely their final season anyway.

[Boudrias]

Criticizing the Twins play this season is not criticizing their legacy. Was Iginla thought any worse of when Calgary made their necessary changes? I think not.

Rebuilding a team cannot be subjected to 'warm & fuzzies'. Hard decisions are made and their effectiveness is often measured in 5 - 8 years not one. My choice would be to rotate underperforming vets out of the lineup. Younger players like Virtanen and Gaunce could move around as well but would always get TOI. Would also like to see steady movement of Utica prospects up and down to give them some NHL games. That movement would be based on their Comets performances.  

[Tre Mac]

That goal that JV is getting blamed for is total BS.  The Sedins had at least 3 chances to get it out and Biega shouldn't of over committed like that plus he knocked JV over with that pointless hit.  Sometimes it's not best to hit everything and that play was a token example.  They will destroy this kids confidence if they keeping putting him in situations where he is bound to fail like playing with the two slowest players in the game.  I though JV came out strong and looked good in the first period, a lot better than everyone else not on the first line then they sit him for 10min.  As Willies stated in the Province on Monday it is clear JV is being held to a different standard. 

[combover]

I don’t like jake on the twins line, he isn’t the best defensively he been told to be more aggressive so he misses a guy because he’s attacking the puck carrier the twins aren’t there to back him up.

put gagner or leave eriksson with them put jake on a line that has speed and covers each other, I’d like to see him with dorsett/ sutter or vanek/gagner (brumistrov grandlund)

Geez put him in front of the net on the pp even.

Build him confindence up it was destroyed last season.

Handcuffed to the slowest players on the ice who once they gain the zone prefer to pass it back an forth below the goal line till they lose it and then getting minimal  minutes doesn’t seem to be making him better nor does the pressbox.

i like how  greens approached things and to some degree I think he’s been handcuffed with the all  ufa signings and high priced vet contracts  but jake is a part of this teams future and core piece he needs to be built up.

 

i wasn’t  stoked when spender jim went out and got all these c grade ufas for this reason jake needs to be in the nhl playing a regular shift and finding His way and where he really fits in.

 

[kloubek]

On 11/3/2017 at 10:39 AM, Canadian Clay said:

I know the popular thing to do is hate on Virtanen and compare him to ehlers and nylander, but let’s not forget that 2 spits ahead of Virtanen in the draft Calgary took Sam Bennett who has 0 points in 13 games this season. At least we have a contributing forward on our team who brings a physical element to the game and is helping the team even when he’s not scoring. 

I think the hate isn't really on Virtanen himself, but more that:

1) He has done little despite being a high draft pick - and part of that seemed to be due to him and his attitude towards what is required to be in this league.

2) A lot of us wanted Nylander to be chosen instead.

I think comparing him to Ehlers is unfair since I don't believe many people realized what a great player he would become.

 

I feel Virtanen has really hunkered down and done everything he can to play with the big team and it shows in his game.  Like you say, the great thing about a guy like Virtanen is that even if he doesn't reach his potential, he IS still useful for us. Nylander was more of a risk in that regard, and I remember at the time not being completely sold on one or the other because it was still relatively fresh in my mind how our team had been manhandled in recent years so I figured going with the physical player had a lower bust potential.  (But yet, I really wanted Nylander's talent)

I had high hopes for Virtanen as a 2nd line power forward, but that faded after about a year or two and I revised my expectations to him being a 3rd line player.  I maintain that he should indeed be a high end 3rd line player for us at his ceiling... similar in design to Torres - who was a highly needed addition during our cup run.  And you know what?  That's fine.  Any contending team (which I expect us to be in a couple of years) needs players like that, and they actually aren't as easy to find as you'd think.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

On 10/23/2017 at 10:24 PM, Where'd Luongo? said:

So, is Yakupov further ahead in his development than Teravainen?

YEP

[dpn1]

8 hours ago, combover said:

I don’t like jake on the twins line, he isn’t the best defensively he been told to be more aggressive so he misses a guy because he’s attacking the puck carrier the twins aren’t there to back him up.

put gagner or leave eriksson with them put jake on a line that has speed and covers each other, I’d like to see him with dorsett/ sutter or vanek/gagner (brumistrov grandlund)

Geez put him in front of the net on the pp even.

Build him confindence up it was destroyed last season.

Handcuffed to the slowest players on the ice who once they gain the zone prefer to pass it back an forth below the goal line till they lose it and then getting minimal  minutes doesn’t seem to be making him better nor does the pressbox.

i like how  greens approached things and to some degree I think he’s been handcuffed with the all  ufa signings and high priced vet contracts  but jake is a part of this teams future and core piece he needs to be built up.

 

i wasn’t  stoked when spender jim went out and got all these c grade ufas for this reason jake needs to be in the nhl playing a regular shift and finding His way and where he really fits in.

 

Jake isn't a bad defensive player.  I think he is +2 so far this year and has been using his speed effectively in his backchecking.  I would like to see him with some speedier line mates.  but the Twins mentoring him as a line mate could be real good good for him this year as well.  I've been watching some Comets games and would like to see the Canucks bring up Goldy play on a line with Jake. 

[Alflives]

13 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

So play two players who don't have the coaches trust on the same line?  That ain't gonna work 

TG plays the Twins together. 

Jake is over thinking the game.  Clearly he's not a high IQ player.  He's a physical beast though, who should be encouraged to just "go out a play".  I would like him with Loui.  Loui could think defense, letting Jake just play.  Right now, with the Twins, Jake is playing an overly defensive role, covering for the Twins.

[combover]

49 minutes ago, dpn1 said:

Jake isn't a bad defensive player.  I think he is +2 so far this year and has been using his speed effectively in his backchecking.  I would like to see him with some speedier line mates.  but the Twins mentoring him as a line mate could be real good good for him this year as well.  I've been watching some Comets games and would like to see the Canucks bring up Goldy play on a line with Jake. 

One of those mentors threw him under the bus for a questionable hit last year. It would seem the coach has got his message jake seem so far more mature this season. But you can’t ask him to hit every shift then put him on a line that slow and unable to cover for him defensively when like most young players he makes a mistake.

I’ve seen goldy has been scoring down there I would like to see him in the nhl but can’t see that happening until some trades are made just no room with all the ufas signed.

 

[Where'd Luongo?]

3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

YEP

[ForsbergTheGreat]

31 minutes ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

Yeah it is quite funny, your conclusion was a bit premature after Yak had a strong start, since then Yak has cooled off and Teravainen is a point a game player, just proves my point even further.  Games played means zero about a players development.  Jake may have played 12th most games in the first round of his draft year, but it sure has zero to do with Jake being the more developed than the players that have played less than him.