N4ZZY Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 37 minutes ago, KKnight said: I watched him specifically on his shifts, he made some mistakes, took a penalty, but to say he didn't have a good night is Blake and Botch being typical Blake and Botch. From what i noticed he's getting good at pickpocketing D. I still think Jake is going to be a good player. Would i rather have Ehlers?? Yes, but Jake has all the tools to be an absolute force and his hockey IQ is getting a lot better than what i saw last year. How has his hockey IQ getting better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKnight Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: How has his hockey IQ getting better? Well based on what he was last year, he's better. He seems to know where to be, definitely a work in progress. Im no scout, but i see improvements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKnight Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 There were a few games this year, i noticed him a lot, doing a lot of the things that will make him effective. Driving the net, finding the player trailing the play, not taking ridiculous shots that won't even provide a rebound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny in Vancouver Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) Was watching the Oilers' forwards' size tonight, and I still think that we'll eventually need somebody who has the insane physical tools of a Virtanen to be elite. It's his brain that's the missing piece of the puzzle. He's 21 and the brain fully matures at 25 so I guess I still need to be patient. Edited January 21, 2018 by vinny_in_vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Whats wrong with thus guy?? He plays like a 230lb cat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoeserSnipe Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 14 hours ago, Alflives said: Jake is ABSOLUTELY a more effective offensive player on the left side. I don’t get the desire of the Canucks to force Jake to play away from his strength? Give Jake the freedom to use his speed, and natural aggression. He hasn’t earned freedom given a lack of effort. Anyone can see he’s not giving it every night- effort is easy. You don’t reward a kid for how he played in his draft year, you reward him for what he shows now. Why should he get special treatment relative to Bo? Bo proved he deserved more ice, he proved he deserved PP time. That’s what professional teams expect and if he can’t deal with that and wants to play like a pansy - go to Europe. Sick of all the apologists for this kids lack of drive and effort. Does he have all the tools to be a great player yes, but I question his desire to actually be a pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 hours ago, BoeserSnipe said: He hasn’t earned freedom given a lack of effort. Anyone can see he’s not giving it every night- effort is easy. You don’t reward a kid for how he played in his draft year, you reward him for what he shows now. Why should he get special treatment relative to Bo? Bo proved he deserved more ice, he proved he deserved PP time. That’s what professional teams expect and if he can’t deal with that and wants to play like a pansy - go to Europe. Sick of all the apologists for this kids lack of drive and effort. Does he have all the tools to be a great player yes, but I question his desire to actually be a pro. That is gonna take some time, given how things had come so easily for him that he probably hadn't tried as hard as he has in the past. It's probably disheartening that the game is so much harder than he thought it would be. I think this is what we are watching now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 8 hours ago, vinny_in_vancouver said: Was watching the Oilers' forwards' size tonight, and I still think that we'll eventually need somebody who has the insane physical tools of a Virtanen to be elite. It's his brain that's the missing piece of the puzzle. He's 21 and the brain fully matures at 25 so I guess I still need to be patient. It looks like the story on Virtanen is he can only process one thing at a time. Step 1 was getting rid of his baby fat...done. Step 2 is to get him to understand how to play the NHL game (work in progress)...Step 3 is to become an effective everyday NHL player. As much as Green has tried to spin things positively for Virtanen, it seems like at the young age of 21, Virtanen has yet to get it. You would think that Virtanen, being around Horvat on a daily basis, would be able to learn by observation, but the evidence shows that is not the case. Who knows...maybe Virtanen's hockey IQ and real-life IQ puts him on the bottom part of the bell curve. Hope hockey work out for the kid; otherwise we might be seeing him while doing the drive through at a Tim Hortons in Abbotsford. Kid goes off to Vegas during the break...like he needs to reward himself with a little holiday when he's only working part-time. Much like Vinny, gotta remind myself to be patient...old enough to have seen the Canucks cast away players like Cam Neely, Rick Vaive, Bill Derlago, Dirk Graham, Curt Fraser, Brent Ashton, Petr Nedved, etc. too soon. As much as I'm not a fan of Virtanen at this stage of his NHL career, I'd hate to see the Canucks give up on him too soon. At least Benning didn't get a chance to choose between Virtanen and Michael Dal Colle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Jake is not our main problem. His Defensive game is not bad. His +\- is better than the majority of the team. Also, the best players in the league are not going to play 82 games perfectly every night. This kid just can't seem to catch a break in this market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TU90 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 20 minutes ago, dpn1 said: Jake is not our main problem. His Defensive game is not bad. His +\- is better than the majority of the team. Also, the best players in the league are not going to play 82 games perfectly every night. This kid just can't seem to catch a break in this market. Really? He's as effective as Gaunce in the offensive zone. Not really acceptable seeing as where he was drafted. The kid needs to learn to make a pass - once he does that, he will be a more effective player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, bigbadcanucks said: It looks like the story on Virtanen is he can only process one thing at a time. Step 1 was getting rid of his baby fat...done. Step 2 is to get him to understand how to play the NHL game (work in progress)...Step 3 is to become an effective everyday NHL player. As much as Green has tried to spin things positively for Virtanen, it seems like at the young age of 21, Virtanen has yet to get it. You would think that Virtanen, being around Horvat on a daily basis, would be able to learn by observation, but the evidence shows that is not the case. Who knows...maybe Virtanen's hockey IQ and real-life IQ puts him on the bottom part of the bell curve. Hope hockey work out for the kid; otherwise we might be seeing him while doing the drive through at a Tim Hortons in Abbotsford. Kid goes off to Vegas during the break...like he needs to reward himself with a little holiday when he's only working part-time. Much like Vinny, gotta remind myself to be patient...old enough to have seen the Canucks cast away players like Cam Neely, Rick Vaive, Bill Derlago, Dirk Graham, Curt Fraser, Brent Ashton, Petr Nedved, etc. too soon. As much as I'm not a fan of Virtanen at this stage of his NHL career, I'd hate to see the Canucks give up on him too soon. At least Benning didn't get a chance to choose between Virtanen and Michael Dal Colle. BTW, How long does patient extend? You aren't still being patient for Jim Sandlak are you? (Remember him, the guy drafted, just after Cam Neely, playing the same position, they thought had more potential and gave up on Cam) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereman Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, bigbadcanucks said: Who knows...maybe Virtanen's hockey IQ and real-life IQ puts him on the bottom part of the bell curve. Hope hockey work out for the kid; otherwise we might be seeing him while doing the drive through at a Tim Hortons in Abbotsford. The kid makes close to a million dollars a year. I'd say there's a better chance you'd be serving him Timbits and hash browns than the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said: BTW, How long does patient extend? You aren't still being patient for Jim Sandlak are you? (Remember him, the guy drafted, just after Cam Neely, playing the same position, they thought had more potential and gave up on Cam) Did they give up on Cam, or was Cam what the Bruins wanted for Pederson? Have to give to get, unless you were dealing with Mike Milbury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, gurn said: Did they give up on Cam, or was Cam what the Bruins wanted for Pederson? Have to give to get, unless you were dealing with Mike Milbury. Yeah i laugh when i read stuff like that. I don't think too many people realize just how good Barry Pederson was at the time. Sadly injuries derailed his career quickly. Now at the time i loved Cam Neely for the fights that he had here before he left! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 41 minutes ago, Westcoasting said: Yeah i laugh when i read stuff like that. I don't think too many people realize just how good Barry Pederson was at the time. Sadly injuries derailed his career quickly. Now at the time i loved Cam Neely for the fights that he had here before he left! lol What's to laugh about? The canucks drafted Neely just before Sandlak Sandlak had an impressive resume and size and played the same position The topic on discussion wasn't that you need to give up something to get something funnyman It was regarding patience The Canucks thought they had a younger better player than Neely in Sandlak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Westcoasting said: Yeah i laugh when i read stuff like that. I don't think too many people realize just how good Barry Pederson was at the time. Sadly injuries derailed his career quickly. Now at the time i loved Cam Neely for the fights that he had here before he left! lol Problem is...Neely wasn't the only thing we gave up (if that wasn't bad enough) to get Pederson. Ruins drafted a guy that played well in the league about TWENTY YEARS after Pederson last suited up for the Canucks. Let that sink in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 43 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said: What's to laugh about? The canucks drafted Neely just before Sandlak Sandlak had an impressive resume and size and played the same position The topic on discussion wasn't that you need to give up something to get something funnyman It was regarding patience The Canucks thought they had a younger better player than Neely in Sandlak Quite simply most fans have no idea how good Pederson was. Canucks didn't give up on Neely, that was the asking price. Most people look at the trade now and wonder how Neely was traded. It is funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 18 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Problem is...Neely wasn't the only thing we gave up (if that wasn't bad enough) to get Pederson. Ruins drafted a guy that played well in the league about TWENTY YEARS after Pederson last suited up for the Canucks. Let that sink in. That's all hindsight though and I tend to wonder how a lot of these people who use hindsight as "proof" what they actually would have done at that time WITHOUT knowing what they know now. It's easy to say things now. It's history. It's right there in front of us and it reads like a book, but can you tell me exactly what to expect from whatever blockbuster trade we try in the next couple of years? I remember when people got excited about getting David Booth, or Keith Ballard, or (insert player here). I also remember us trading for players like Dorsett and people went "who?" Don't get me wrong. Hindsight can be fun to look back on things with, but way too often does it get used as a way of defamation by people who want to believe they are somehow "hockey experts" and that's where hindsight gets used in the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoeserSnipe Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 hours ago, dpn1 said: Jake is not our main problem. His Defensive game is not bad. His +\- is better than the majority of the team. Also, the best players in the league are not going to play 82 games perfectly every night. This kid just can't seem to catch a break in this market. No one here is saying he’s our “main problem”. We’re saying he’s not showing the drive to want to be a NHL player and certainly not showing material signs of being anything other than a fringe NHL at best. I would argue he’s not even shown that to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 hours ago, TU90 said: Really? He's as effective as Gaunce in the offensive zone. Not really acceptable seeing as where he was drafted. The kid needs to learn to make a pass - once he does that, he will be a more effective player. So far, the 2014 draft is not looking as strong as other drafts. Period. Therefore, I think there's way to much focus on where he was drafted. At least he's doing better than over half of the first round of that draft still, including MDC who was drafted 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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