Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, captainhorvat said:

Don’t know what he thinks but I see a player we hold onto for too long and eventually have to put him on waivers

With Jake I see a young boy still figuring out how to be a man.  He’s still emotionally immature.  He does have great size, speed ( faster that McDavid in a straight line) and aggression.  That combined with an extremely heavy shot is just too much to give away at this point.  If he does put it all together he is instantly a difference maker.  That potential is worth the risk of him busting out of the league, and getting nothing for the asset.  

[Zhukini]

4 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

What do you see in the future for Jake?

A different jersey 

[Nucker 67]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

With Jake I see a young boy still figuring out how to be a man.  He’s still emotionally immature.  He does have great size, speed ( faster that McDavid in a straight line) and aggression.  That combined with an extremely heavy shot is just too much to give away at this point.  If he does put it all together he is instantly a difference maker.  That potential is worth the risk of him busting out of the league, and getting nothing for the asset.  

Yes, I think Jake, like Juoelvi, will be very good players one day. It's just not happening as fast as some of their peers. It's not a race. With Jake's speed and size, and Olli's smarts, skating and calmness, they will help the Canucks win down the road. Goldobin could be a very good player too, but I think Green has ruined him.

 

 

[The Lock]

11 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

The guy has ZERO hockey iq. Enough with this false hope for Jake. I’ll take a 3rd rounder for this 6th overall bust.

I get not liking a guy, but if all we are getting is a 3rd rounder back, then who cares? Seriously. At least see how Virtanen pans out at that point if that's all you think his value is.

 

Also this notion of "false hope" you are calling, how is your post any different? Because you hate the guy you are more logical? And I have no problem with people criticizing the guy, but you aren't even doing that. You sound like an angry old man: the one who no one pays attention to at a reunion and avoids.

Edited May 8, 2019 by The Lock

[aGENT]

12 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

The guy has ZERO hockey iq. Enough with this false hope for Jake. I’ll take a 3rd rounder for this 6th overall bust.

I'd FAR rather have a decent 3rd liner with speed and size than a long shot, 3rd round pick.

 

3 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

Don’t know what he thinks but I see a player we hold onto for too long and eventually have to put him on waivers

Why the hell would we waive him? I get he hasn't perhaps lived up to the lofty hopes of some fans still fixated on his 6 OA draft spot but he's a legit NHL player, not dissimilar to no longer 18 year old Sam Bennett. 

 

You don't just dump perfectly useful players simply because they didn't live up to their draft slot.

[ohmy]

5 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

What do you see in the future for Jake?

I see a kid whos made progress the last two seasons but needs to show consistency in the future. If he can find that your looking at a 20-25 goal scorer with good size and strength. We need players like him for the playoffs. Hes shown in a few games he can be dominant. Big year for Jake. Make or break as far as his time with the Canucks. 

[Fred65]

On 5/5/2019 at 4:31 PM, I.Am.Ironman said:

How do you figure he bombed this year? He improved over last year in goals by 50% and in total points by 25%. At 1.25M AAV and 15 goals he is probably the 3rd highest in terms of dollars per goal (behind Brock and Petey on ELCs). I don't see the value in cutting ties with him; if anything an argument could be made he is more valuable to keep.

1

I can only assume there is a large contingent of fans on the forum from Abbotsford  There's a love fest going on with JV, be patient, let him play with better players, he's a power forward (last time he  had a fight was with Nashville's Forsberg  Now Evander Kane just dropped the gloves with Reaves ) JV is what he is. We can hope for better but he hasn't shown a lot to back it up

[WeneedLumme]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'd FAR rather have a decent 3rd liner with speed and size than a long shot, 3rd round pick.

 

Why the hell would we waive him? I get he hasn't perhaps lived up to the lofty hopes of some fans still fixated on his 6 OA draft spot but he's a legit NHL player, not dissimilar to no longer 18 year old Sam Bennett. 

 

You don't just dump perfectly useful players simply because they didn't live up to their draft slot.

Not to mention the fact that only a simpleton would believe that a blazingly fast 220 pound 22 year old who hits like a truck, is defensively responsible, leads the team in takeaways and scored 15 goals in 70 games, would actually need to be waived.

[Butters Stoch]

14 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

The guy has ZERO hockey iq. Enough with this false hope for Jake. I’ll take a 3rd rounder for this 6th overall bust.

He's a disappointment for a 6th overall pick and I don't see him ever becoming a true top six guy but trading him for a 3rd rounder is just stupid.He's still a great player to have on the third line.

[Canuck Surfer]

6 minutes ago, Butters Stoch said:

He's a disappointment for a 6th overall pick and I don't see him ever becoming a true top six guy

I do.

 

More in the vein of a Alex Burrows 3rd wheel / glue guy. Than a guy who drives play on a top 6 line.  But he's smart, mostly, defensively, steals pucks, has a positive Corsi. People say he is a low IQ player, but the team as a whole, does not get beat when he's on the ice. I do see him as a little gun shy. Both to make a big hit, or plays with the puck. But FTM, he's not giving the puck away trying to make plays he cannot either. He's a match up body that foes not get pushed off the puck, creates problems with his speed, can & does shoot when he has an opening, makes reflex passes.

 

That can be deployed in a top 6 role right now. But the coach has been teaching him 2knd to play within himself. 1st was to get in shape, and his head into a role he could handle against NHL comp. 

 

FTM also though, that leaves him better off on the 3rd line. Spend his summer 2 hours a day handling the puck. Stop, start, protect it against pressure putting his hip on an attacking defender. Learn to handle the puck under pressure. Start moving up the line up as he shows improved capacity to handle the puck.  

 

Jake's ''problem'' is not that he is low IQ. He needs to add that skill in handling, protecting, and making plays with the puck. Learn to cycle, his body is very capable of holding off players. He'll become a no brainer top 6 as he does. 

[Canucks Curse]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I do.

 

More in the vein of a Alex Burrows 3rd wheel / glue guy. Than a guy who drives play on a top 6 line.  But he's smart, mostly, defensively, steals pucks, has a positive Corsi. People say he is a low IQ player, but the team as a whole, does not get beat when he's on the ice. I do see him as a little gun shy. Both to make a big hit, or plays with the puck. But FTM, he's not giving the puck away trying to make plays he cannot either. He's a match up body that foes not get pushed off the puck, creates problems with his speed, can & does shoot when he has an opening, makes reflex passes.

 

That can be deployed in a top 6 role right now. But the coach has been teaching him 2knd to play within himself. 1st was to get in shape, and his head into a role he could handle against NHL comp. 

 

FTM also though, that leaves him better off on the 3rd line. Spend his summer 2 hours a day handling the puck. Stop, start, protect it against pressure putting his hip on an attacking defender. Learn to handle the puck under pressure. Start moving up the line up as he shows improved capacity to handle the puck.  

 

Jake's ''problem'' is not that he is low IQ. He needs to add that skill in handling, protecting, and making plays with the puck. Learn to cycle, his body is very capable of holding off players. He'll become a no brainer top 6 as he does. 

he will never be a burrows, burrows had great hockey IQ, which is why he meshed with the sedins, Burrows had the will to persevere, and was a player who would sacrifice anything, Virtanen is much towards the other end of the spectrum, has all the physical tools and one can argue Burrows lacked some god-given physical tools but absolutely maximized what he was given, Virtanen - many god given gifts, trouble putting it together

Burrows- lacked materials- all the right tools

Virtanen- has all the materials- lacks some tools 

[Canuck Surfer]

20 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

Burrows- lacked materials- all the right tools

Virtanen- has all the materials- lacks some tools 

I don't disagree with this. A bit simplistic. Burrows, for example, had better puck skills than was given credit for.  That as much as ''hockey IQ.'' is why he was successful with the Twins. Tools in your analogy as skills. But he also had materials, he was fast & had endurance. 

 

For all the complaints about hockey IQ?  I don't see that problem with Jake. He's not a mistake prone, disaster waiting to happen. ie ''low IQ.'' Too much is made of this, its not true IMO. But yes he has even more size & speed than Burrows, materials.

 

What Jake lacks, is more skill handling the puck, making plays.  That's a skill flaw, not IQ. 

 

25 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

he will never be a burrows,

Burrows, was not Burrows till 25 and 26 years old. Was not where Jake is at 22.  You should not limit Jake because you are frustrated he is not lightning in a bottle, because he was a 6th overall pick.  It does not mean he will not continue to develop. He's improved incrementally each of the last 3 years.

 

Superstars improve exponentially. That should not be expected with most players. Detroit had guys like Tatar & Nyquist in the minors till 23 & 24 before they played full NHL. Argue if AHL is better conditioning? But nonetheless they also developed incrementally. They never became part of a ''rebuild'' in Detroit. A lost generation. But still ecame top 6 forwards who commanded a big return for Detroit when they became 26 & 27. I see no reasons why Jake would not continue to improve if well coached.

 

Even then, we waited 7 years for the Twins to break out.

 

I see every reason to expect Virtanen will be a solid player for us.   

[I.Am.Ironman]

10 hours ago, Fred65 said:

I can only assume there is a large contingent of fans on the forum from Abbotsford  There's a love fest going on with JV, be patient, let him play with better players, he's a power forward (last time he  had a fight was with Nashville's Forsberg  Now Evander Kane just dropped the gloves with Reaves ) JV is what he is. We can hope for better but he hasn't shown a lot to back it up

I am not from Abbotsford and there is no love fest. Objectively speaking JV is actually one of the most efficient players on this team as far as dollars per goal. He has also improved every single year he has been in this league from a goals and points perspective. If anyone expects him to be fighting the Evander Kanes and Ryan Reaves of the world they need to check themselves. I never said any of those things you insinuated in your post. JV is a middle 6 forward at this point and that's ok. Could he become a top 6 forward? Maybe. He needs to show more when he gets opportunities with skill players.

 

If you don't like JV that's fine but I don't see anybody else in the system who is going to replace him. If you think you can replace 15 Goals at 1.25M through trade or free agency I would love to hear your proposal.

[Kanukfanatic]

On 5/7/2019 at 11:43 PM, captainhorvat said:

The guy has ZERO hockey iq. Enough with this false hope for Jake. I’ll take a 3rd rounder for this 6th overall bust.

...aannnnddd thats why you will never work in Hockey!!  

[captainhorvat]

11 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

...aannnnddd thats why you will never work in Hockey!!  

[WeneedLumme]

6 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

But your intelligent articulate response indicates that you might have a career in sports journalism.

[JeremyCuddles]

A somewhat disappointing season for Jake, for me anyway. I still have/had high hopes for the guy. When he said he was working on his hands last summer I thought for sure this was the season he takes a major step towards being a top 6 forward. He's a good depth option on that 3rd line though. 15 goals from someone outside the top 6 is pretty valuable. But I believed he could have done more. He's still just 22 though, 23 in August. I still believe he could be a top 6 forward but he NEEDS to become better with the puck. Not just at controlling it but making smarter decisions with it. His defense has come a long way so he is capable of improving areas of his game. 

 

People saying they'd trade him for a 2nd or 3rd rounder don't realize the players you draft in those rounds you are hoping become as useful as Jake, so why make the trade? Because Jake didn't become an elite player? Doesn't make sense to make a trade for a guy you hope is half as good as Jake in 4-5 years. That 2nd rounder is statistically more likely to bust than to be better than Jake.

[LowerMainLander18]

The more playoffs I watch nowadays, the more I want to see JV in the playoffs....

 

[Fred65]

14 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

I am not from Abbotsford and there is no love fest. Objectively speaking JV is actually one of the most efficient players on this team as far as dollars per goal. He has also improved every single year he has been in this league from a goals and points perspective. If anyone expects him to be fighting the Evander Kanes and Ryan Reaves of the world they need to check themselves. I never said any of those things you insinuated in your post. JV is a middle 6 forward at this point and that's ok. Could he become a top 6 forward? Maybe. He needs to show more when he gets opportunities with skill players.

 

If you don't like JV that's fine but I don't see anybody else in the system who is going to replace him. If you think you can replace 15 Goals at 1.25M through trade or free agency I would love to hear your proposal.

Here's the thing I neither dislike or like him. It's not a factor and yeah he will play in the NHL as a middle line player. Was he a waste of a pick at #6 O/A absolutely. I wish him well. His salary is indicative of his value alongside his pears  .... a sort of yardstick. I'd tend to think he was a wasted selection and this team could be way ahead of its current standing with a better pick at that spot, heck McCann is better and they took him at the 26th slot (?)  I don't want to saddle other more skilled players with JV, he reduces their effectiveness ..... IMO

[Nucker 67]

Virtanen was Benning's first Draft pick with the Canucks. Canucks had been pushed around for years with no pushback. In fact, it cost them their 1st Cup. Jake is a power forward who is still developing. We don't know yet what his ceiling is, because he's only 22. I still have hope that something will click, and he figures out how to use his speed and size better. Calling him a bust is a little premature.