Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Sorry but Willie was dealing with a kid who should not have been in the NHL. Virtanen’s development was as much a desperate org need for some kind of prospect star on the horizon. What appears obvious now is that his game had to be rebuilt. That started in Utica. To suggest that Jake’s early struggles were all Desjardins fault is bogus. While older I put Hutton in the same scenario. Thrown in to early. 

I agree that Jake was his own problem too, but the question was about why Jake doesn’t hit so hard now.  That’s on Willie D.  Have we ever heard a coach who doesn’t defend his players?  Willie D was the root cause of Jake’s reducing his big hits.  

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I agree that Jake was his own problem too, but the question was about why Jake doesn’t hit so hard now.  That’s on Willie D.  Have we ever heard a coach who doesn’t defend his players?  Willie D was the root cause of Jake’s reducing his big hits.  

I think you're referring to when Jake levelled Polak, correct? . Jake should have been supported for that, and WD should have called out DoPS not his player. 

 

Willie was a terrible coach, cost us development time with Jake and lost us Tryamkin. Look at what WD did with his 2nd chance in LA, he blew that completely. He was just a fill-in for a year, but probably could have got some interest if he didn't crap the bed there too. 4th line Kovalchuk? 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think you're referring to when Jake levelled Polak, correct? . Jake should have been supported for that, and WD should have called out DoPS not his player. 

 

Willie was a terrible coach, cost us development time with Jake and lost us Tryamkin. Look at what WD did with his 2nd chance in LA, he blew that completely. He was just a fill-in for a year, but probably could have got some interest if he didn't crap the bed there too. 4th line Kovalchuk? 

Yup, Polak.  I forgot.  Have you ever heard a coach not defend his player in such a circumstance?  

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup, Polak.  I forgot.  Have you ever heard a coach not defend his player in such a circumstance?  

not that i can recall. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

not that i can recall. 

Me neither.  Basically Willie called a very young player stupid in public.  What was he saying to Jake (and Tryamkin) behind closed doors?  

Jake is coming around now.  I think we see him on a very effective third line to start the season.  

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Me neither.  Basically Willie called a very young player stupid in public.  What was he saying to Jake (and Tryamkin) behind closed doors?  

Jake is coming around now.  I think we see him on a very effective third line to start the season.  

I could see Jake still being on the trading block for a defensive upgrade as part of a package with Tanev maybe? who knows. But I am excited to see what Jake can do surrounded by guys like Miller and Ferkie. 

[-AJ-]

18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup, Polak.  I forgot.  Have you ever heard a coach not defend his player in such a circumstance?  

 

12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

not that i can recall. 

I don't think it's that foreign for a coach not to defend an illegal check.

[JM_]

26 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

 

I don't think it's that foreign for a coach not to defend an illegal check.

its one thing to say something in the room, but out in public you don't call out your own guys, imo. 

[Rob_Zepp]

14 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Jake, shamed into hitting? What the hell does that make the rest of the team that use their bodies even less than he does? On top of him out scoring all the other bottom 6ers. He was 2nd on the team in hits, there was a 50 hit gap between him and the next highest forward. We ever gonna give Jake any sort of respect on here or just hate on him?

So many people have created a (false) narrative for Jake (and some other Canucks) and seemingly no matter what he does on the ice, that narrative will not change.   I am very much in the Travis Green camp that says that the best Jake will be the one that emerges about age 24 BUT the current Jake is more than just an adequate version in so many ways.

[Rob_Zepp]

2 hours ago, D-Money said:

Jake layed off the hitting once he started getting shoulder injuries.

That is a statistically proven incorrect statement.   He has hit more often since in a per game and per 60 basis.    Why invent stuff?

[Rob_Zepp]

47 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

 

I don't think it's that foreign for a coach not to defend an illegal check.

You don't listen to Babcock after Kadri hits apparently.     Wonder how he will like Kadri hitting HIS players this year.

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I agree that Jake was his own problem too, but the question was about why Jake doesn’t hit so hard now.  That’s on Willie D.  Have we ever heard a coach who doesn’t defend his players?  Willie D was the root cause of Jake’s reducing his big hits.  

How about the shoulder injury?

[Smashian Kassian]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Sorry but Willie was dealing with a kid who should not have been in the NHL. Virtanen’s development was as much a desperate org need for some kind of prospect star on the horizon. What appears obvious now is that his game had to be rebuilt. That started in Utica. To suggest that Jake’s early struggles were all Desjardins fault is bogus. While older I put Hutton in the same scenario. Thrown in to early. 

 

I think Jake was a victim of the NHL/CHL agreement. He shouldnt have been in the NHL, but going back to the CHL & continuing to get by on superior physical tools wouldnt've been great either. As you said his game had to be rebuilt. Ideally he would've been in the AHL. Its not Willie's fault. 

[Smashian Kassian]

At this point I think you'd be happy with Jake being a really good 3rd line player. I dont see him as a bonefide top 6 fwd. I know people say 'PWFs take longer' but is JV a true PWF? Seems like more of a scorer with superior physical tools.

 

20 goals / 40 pts in a middle 6 role when we're good is what im realistically hoping for.

 

We're not married to him like the core 4. Id consider him a trade chip if the right deal came along.

[Toews]

19 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

That is a statistically proven incorrect statement.   He has hit more often since in a per game and per 60 basis.    Why invent stuff?

Statistics are nice but they do a woeful job of measuring physicality. There is a reason why even the stat nerds stay far away from Hits/gm and Hits/60, because they have no meaningful way to quantify this data not to mention the variance in the way its collected. I feel like a broken record but stats like Hits/Giveaways/Takeaways all suffer from significant variance from observer to observer. What qualifies as a "hit" depends on person to person. There are stat keepers who at the slightest bit of contact will call that a "hit". I would wager that many of the people who the NHL employs to count stats are not necessarily people who have played the game at a high level. 

[Alflives]

33 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

How about the shoulder injury?

Did Jake look injured levelling Polak and Kronwal?

[higgyfan]

16 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

At this point I think you'd be happy with Jake being a really good 3rd line player. I dont see him as a bonefide top 6 fwd. I know people say 'PWFs take longer' but is JV a true PWF? Seems like more of a scorer with superior physical tools.

 

20 goals / 40 pts in a middle 6 role when we're good is what im realistically hoping for.

 

We're not married to him like the core 4. Id consider him a trade chip if the right deal came along.

I agree.  Jake just doesn't seem to have that nasty aspect to his game.  I don't think that's something that can be easily be changed in a player.

 

Still, I think he is becoming a solid 3rd liner who can fill in on the 2nd from time to time.  Love his speed/physical style and he appears to be adapting to the 2-way game.

 

Ferland had the same pts when he was 24yrs that Jake had (22yrs) last season.  The difference being the nastiness.  That's why folks are thinking about Ferland in the top 6, rather than Virtanen.

[18W-40C-6W]

20 hours ago, Borvat said:

This is why I don't want them to move Jake.  It's too early to consider him at his ceiling with his skill set - if it all came together it would be nice to see him still here.

They won't JB was quoted as saying Ferland's acquisition should be a big help for Jake. They see him as a mentor for Jake as well

[18W-40C-6W]

17 hours ago, TGT68 said:

Complimentary?  I was thinking

 

Ferland AG JV18.

 

Punishment, puck separation and finish.  

Ferland is going to create Havoc, room for Petey and Boeser imho. Just as he did for Monohan and Gaudreau in calgary. That and make sure no one even looks at Petey the wrong way going forward

 

Ferland Petey Boeser

Miller Bo Pearson

Baer Sutter/Guadette JV

Roussel Beagle Motte

Goldobin, Leivo

 

[RowdyCanuck]

Look at how Jake has had his best season so far with Rooster....now add Ferland and Miller....I'm pumped to see him play his game this season...Jake finally has the players around him to encourage him to play his game and build his confidence....this is how you develop a pwf/ nasty young player.  Loving this team more then ever ha Jake has a nasty side but his not a fighter....Also very few young guys can handle being the only guy with a target on his back... Mark my words we are all in for a treat this season!