Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Zhukini]

Should have been in a new city by now. He's only 20/21/22/23... 

 

He's 24 now. Oops I forgot Bert became a superstar at this age so Jake will too. 

 

It's really this simple, not all of Juolevi/Podkolzin/Hoglander/Dipietro/Woo/Jurmo etc will hit their ceilings, it's just not how things work. We're seeing that with Jake 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Zhukini

[UFCanuck]

Shotgun Jake seems like he has some social anxiety during pressers.

 

But training with Weber seems to have changed his mindset a bit.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

On 12/28/2020 at 1:04 AM, ba;;isticsports said:

Lol we lost TT because we were Always at or near the top of the cap like the Top 6 teams, while being at the basement for over 1/2 decade as I stated , and left little options available End of story;)

Anyways, it is what it is now, hopefully they realize the mistakes now, and there will no longer be an over indulgence of spending on the Bottom 6 anymore

Will be glad when we get value on our cap spending in a few years hopefully

i hate these attitudes. we were one of the worst teams when benning took over, if we didn't sign sutter we probably would have been the worst. How often do you see the cream of the crop free agents signing to bottom feeders? Sutter was a highly sought after free agent and in his prime.He was having disussions with many teams more desirable than ours. if Jim doesn't sign him we don't get any better, and He's fired before the end of the season. i mean seriously do you really believe that Jim wanted to sign a 3rd liner for 5 years? all of the signings were completed with the goal of getting to the playoffs as soon as possible, we targeted all of these players because they were the best available at thier position and filled our positional needs.we quite literally have to offer a year or 2 longer than we wanted and maybe slightly overpay because our team blew chunks, canadian market and it was the only way to level up as quick as possible. 

 

as for our cap troubles we never really had any until this year and we wouldn't have had any if it weren't for covid, and cap recapture didn't help.

 

If you were hired to be gm you would probably have tons of cap space available, and we would also be one of the worst team in the league,  beause when you saved up space to go after the big fish, you would fail to sign them because we are the worst team in the league filled with replacement level plugs signed to value deals, and if they did want to sign you would be getting the big fish to sergei bobrovsky deals. But more importantly you would be fired first, because you would be going against the owner's wishes of being as competitive as possible, every year. In this situation you can't have your cake and eat it too. 

 

5 years ago if you were given the option to either continue the path or teleport to 2021 95% would choose teleport.

 

 when literally nothing is in the depth coming up and your looking to improve as quick as possible without sacrificing picks its through the Free agency. when your literally handcuffed by the owners expectations, you make due with what you have. End of Story.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Petey_BOI

[Bad_BOI_pete]

2 hours ago, Zhukini said:

Should have been in a new city by now. He's only 20/21/22/23... 

 

He's 24 now. Oops I forgot Bert became a superstar at this age so Jake will too. 

 

It's really this simple, not all of Juolevi/Podkolzin/Hoglander/Dipietro/Woo/Jurmo etc will hit their ceilings, it's just not how things work. We're seeing that with Jake 

 

i dont think you know what you're talking about, it's really quite simple. Instead of Jake Virtanen and OJ we should have drafted <INSERT BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER HERE> the only reason we Didn't was because Benning Didn't listen to Judd Bracket. What a God Judd Bracket is, Too bad Benning Let the wayne Gretzky of scouts go because of him being a selfish GM in wanting a say in his Draft picks.

 

That being said Jim Missed the boat this off Season, he should have known that the plague of Covid-19 was Coming and would create a great oppurtunity to get Value contracts on cheap 1 year deals. I mean literally the next pandemic has been known about for years, But we wouldn't have had that problem if he was smart enough to now you only sign free agents  to 1 year deals, if the player doesn't like it then who cares ill just sign another one EZ . There's always players available that have had bad years and will want to sign 1 year prove me deals on the cheap. at trade deadline after thier career year we can trade them for draft picks (no free Agent's will walk away for free), you have to do that because you can't lose a player for nothing, free value!!! then we insert our draft picks <INSERT BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER HERE> AND last years <INSERT BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER HERE> AND WIN THE CUP.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Petey_BOI

[Lazurus]

19 hours ago, The Lock said:

None of those players have been around as long as Virtanen has and has nothing to do with Virtanen having 1400 pages. lol You're trying to put pieces together that simply do not fit. If you have to dodge or try and lead the conversation elsewhere by talking about Pearson and Green and how other players are supposedly doing, you're kind of lost the debate at that point since you clearly have nothing for me.

 

And then there's this whole "last year is a fluke" argument as if that's going to have any merit. I'm not going to debate with someone who's using his own "speculation" as if it's evidence.

Hey, get with it. This entire forum is nothing but speculation, it is not a news agency. There is no oath of truth life and liberty to sign on here.

 

As far as evidence, I think 1400 pages by posters like you should make some kind of acknowledgement from you, 1400 pages of opinions and speculation.

 

If I draw an opinion from all these 1400 pages, well look at the source.

I am sure that you know how to do a search in google, so find your proof.

 

Virtanen is not the only player on the team. I bring up the other players because for some reason they get free passes.

 

I am not just supporting Jake here.

FYI

I thought drafting him was a huge mistake for a few reasons, one, he had a bad shoulder, two, he was a one season wonder, three, he was a local boy, four, IMO there were many others ahead of him to draft.

BUT

He is here and should not be singled out for mistakes that others make constantly. Like Eriksson, the player didn't force management to offer that contract or sign it.

Mistakes, I wonder if not scoring counts?

 

 

[The Lock]

14 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

Hey, get with it. This entire forum is nothing but speculation, it is not a news agency. There is no oath of truth life and liberty to sign on here.

 

As far as evidence, I think 1400 pages by posters like you should make some kind of acknowledgement from you, 1400 pages of opinions and speculation.

 

If I draw an opinion from all these 1400 pages, well look at the source.

I am sure that you know how to do a search in google, so find your proof.

 

Virtanen is not the only player on the team. I bring up the other players because for some reason they get free passes.

 

I am not just supporting Jake here.

FYI

I thought drafting him was a huge mistake for a few reasons, one, he had a bad shoulder, two, he was a one season wonder, three, he was a local boy, four, IMO there were many others ahead of him to draft.

BUT

He is here and should not be singled out for mistakes that others make constantly. Like Eriksson, the player didn't force management to offer that contract or sign it.

Mistakes, I wonder if not scoring counts?

 

 

If you think this entire forum's about only speculation then you're in for a rough time. lol Speculation is subject to be challenged. I challenged your speculation. I gave you solid logical reasoning as to why there's more to things than 1400 posts here. Simple as that. You want to start going on a speculation stint? You'd better be strong enough to take what's to come.

 

I gave you my reasons why it's 1400 pages: Virtanen's been here for 6+ years whereas most players on the team have less than half that time even having a thread, there was a number of controversies at the result, he was a 1st round pick which in itself means a lot of posts, etc.

 

So yes, I acknowledge it's 1400 posts, but the reasons you provided as to WHY it's 1400 posts is very little to do with it, if at all.

 

[Lazurus]

19 minutes ago, The Lock said:

If you think this entire forum's about only speculation then you're in for a rough time. lol Speculation is subject to be challenged. I challenged your speculation. I gave you solid logical reasoning as to why there's more to things than 1400 posts here. Simple as that. You want to start going on a speculation stint? You'd better be strong enough to take what's to come.

 

I gave you my reasons why it's 1400 pages: Virtanen's been here for 6+ years whereas most players on the team have less than half that time even having a thread, there was a number of controversies at the result, he was a 1st round pick which in itself means a lot of posts, etc.

 

So yes, I acknowledge it's 1400 posts, but the reasons you provided as to WHY it's 1400 posts is very little to do with it, if at all.

 

Horvat , Boeser, Edler, Tanev, Barstchi, and other were here longer but didn't get as many pages with as much complaining about his hair cut or uncut finger nails.

Always this stuff about him being a bad defensive player, prove it.

[The Lock]

11 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

Horvat , Boeser, Edler, Tanev, Barstchi, and other were here longer but didn't get as many pages with as much complaining about his hair cut or uncut finger nails.

Always this stuff about him being a bad defensive player, prove it.

Boeser was drafted 2015, a year after Virtanen. Horvat's a little surprised to have less posts than he has, but he's also never really sparked debates. The other pages were started in 2016, not when they started with the team. There was a mass creation of threads for our existing players at that time. Before then, things were different in terms of that. Edit: Thinking about that, that's also probably why Horvat's thread has less pages. His page would have originated in the prospects thread so perhaps there was some bouncing around and times when it was locked before then since he wasn't a prospect (but I'm not 100% certain on that one)

 

This is why you shouldn't compare the number of pages on a forum thread with how the team's actually doing.

 

Also, you're telling me to prove something I never said.

Edited January 7, 2021 by The Lock

[lmm]

1 hour ago, Petey_BOI said:

i dont think you know what you're talking about, it's really quite simple. Instead of Jake Virtanen and OJ we should have drafted <INSERT BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER HERE> the only reason we Didn't was because Benning Didn't listen to Judd Bracket. What a God Judd Bracket is, Too bad Benning Let the wayne Gretzky of scouts go because of him being a selfish GM in wanting a say in his Draft picks.

 

That being said Jim Missed the boat this off Season, he should have known that the plague of Covid-19 was Coming and would create a great oppurtunity to get Value contracts on cheap 1 year deals. I mean literally the next pandemic has been known about for years, But we wouldn't have had that problem if he was smart enough to now you only sign free agents  to 1 year deals, if the player doesn't like it then who cares ill just sign another one EZ . There's always players available that have had bad years and will want to sign 1 year prove me deals on the cheap. at trade deadline after thier career year we can trade them for draft picks (no free Agent's will walk away for free), you have to do that because you can't lose a player for nothing, free value!!! then we insert our draft picks <INSERT BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER HERE> AND last years <INSERT BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER HERE> AND WIN THE CUP.

 

 

you sound surprized that the cap went flat

as I recall there is talk every summer that the cap might go flat, and every year it goes up.

but after the 2008 meltdown the cap was close to flat in 2008-9 to 2009-10

here is a look.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_salary_cap#:~:text=The actual amount of the,10 season it was %2456.8

 

sure it would have been hard to imagine that the league would be shut dowm by a virus from an unknown corner of China and bat urine, but did you reqlly think the cap would expand forever?

[Bad_BOI_pete]

1 hour ago, lmm said:

you sound surprized that the cap went flat

as I recall there is talk every summer that the cap might go flat, and every year it goes up.

but after the 2008 meltdown the cap was close to flat in 2008-9 to 2009-10

here is a look.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_salary_cap#:~:text=The actual amount of the,10 season it was %2456.8

 

sure it would have been hard to imagine that the league would be shut dowm by a virus from an unknown corner of China and bat urine, but did you reqlly think the cap would expand forever?

there was reports that the cap was supposed to go up, i forget the number, like 4 million.

 

there could be years the cap could become stagnant and potentially drop. economic meltdown, crazy pr scandals. But you cant predict those things very well.

You would assume that the cap should steadily rise along with inflation

does that seem crazy?.

[RWMc1]

31 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

there was reports that the cap was supposed to go up, i forget the number, like 4 million.

 

there could be years the cap could become stagnant and potentially drop. economic meltdown, crazy pr scandals. But you cant predict those things very well.

You would assume that the cap should steadily rise along with inflation

does that seem crazy?.

From ESPN. there are other sources that confirm that revenue was rising until COVID hit.

 

"BOCA RATON, Fla -- The NHL's salary cap is projected to be between $84 million and $88.2 million for the 2020-21 season, an uptick from the current cap of $81.5 million, the league told its general managers at their annual March meetings this week.

The exact figure for next season will be negotiated with the NHL Players' Association. The cap, which is calculated on a percentage of hockey-related league revenue for the previous season, indicates the NHL is steadily growing as it prepares to welcome its 32nd team, Seattle, for the 2021-22 season."

[Lancaster]

12 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Horvat , Boeser, Edler, Tanev, Barstchi, and other were here longer but didn't get as many pages with as much complaining about his hair cut or uncut finger nails.

Always this stuff about him being a bad defensive player, prove it.

Because there's nothing to really complain about with those players.

Horvat has been training hard every off-season on where he's weakest.... first was skating, then shooting, then passing, etc.  

Boeser became a top-6 the instant he arrived, minimal complaints.

Edler has been a warrior for the Canucks.... we know how good he could be and how he haven't been in that level for many years, but we understand that he's getting older, the supporting cast got weaker and he himself had major back injuries where he mentioned he will never be quite 100%... he gets a pass.

Tanev always played to his strength, defense.  Just his durability was become an issue.... but either than that, no real complaints either.

Baertschi arrived as a top prospect and has done everything the coaching staff has asked of him.  Worked on his 2-way game and has always strived to prove doubters wrong.... just maybe his body can't keep up.  You don't criticize the player's mindset if injuries is the key issue they are facing.

 

Virtanen.... shows up to camp overweight a few times, had to constantly be reminded to "be a pro", makes himself susceptible to "hanger-ons", relatively minimal improvements year after year, poor decision making on the ice, big and fast but doesn't play to his physical gifts, etc.  Jake has used all any goodwill he initially had being a local boy, thus any time now he does something, he's going to be criticized.  He needs to fly straighter than his peers if he wants to be back into many people's good graces.  

[Boudrias]

11 hours ago, RWMc1 said:

From ESPN. there are other sources that confirm that revenue was rising until COVID hit.

 

"BOCA RATON, Fla -- The NHL's salary cap is projected to be between $84 million and $88.2 million for the 2020-21 season, an uptick from the current cap of $81.5 million, the league told its general managers at their annual March meetings this week.

The exact figure for next season will be negotiated with the NHL Players' Association. The cap, which is calculated on a percentage of hockey-related league revenue for the previous season, indicates the NHL is steadily growing as it prepares to welcome its 32nd team, Seattle, for the 2021-22 season."

The NHL was also dealing on new broadcast deal in the USA. I suppose that is on hold. Rumour of each team getting $5 million per year.

[#Canucks]

Jake will be worth the wait. End of story

[garthsbutcher]

4 hours ago, #Canucks said:

Jake will be worth the wait. End of story

Just wait till he gets to to the  playoffs, he will be a whole different guy, OH WAIT, LOL

[vannuck59]

On 1/6/2021 at 5:12 PM, Lazurus said:

A magnifying glass focused on ONE SINGLE person, like he is an island all by himself. So much attention to one of 23 players on a team. So much expectations and disappointment expressed over one guy. And he isn't even close to the worst on the team.

How is it this much angst can be placed on ONE player that really has nothing to do with the team except to contribute with the rest of his peers. But so much on how he is failing to meet standards. If there is so much passion why is the ONE guy responsible for everything not getting attention?

The media is talking about anything and everything except the elephant in the room. Speculate on Green's contract, Hamonic's effect, Virtanen letting everyone down or how he HAS to become something he may never had been anyway. But the ONE guy gets away with everything and nary a comment. Like this last signing of a 5th round pick to a maximum rookie contract, more than Holander or any other rookie. But what the heck if Virtanen doesn't perform perfectly, if there is a flaw then it is his fault that the team is capped out, right?

Jake is fine being a third line right wing goal scorer who can move up with injury's. The problem with Jake is Green, the third line should be   Motte - Gaudette - Virtanen .

Or maybe Bailey - Gaudette - Virtanen . Ether way speed would make that line away more effective . Green has a thing for Virtanen that wants to keep him harnessed .

[#Canucks]

20 hours ago, garthsbutcher said:

Just wait till he gets to to the  playoffs, he will be a whole different guy, OH WAIT, LOL

We have only had a sample size of Virtanen in the playoffs. I would not write him off yet! Lol

[Lazurus]

On 1/8/2021 at 9:44 AM, Lancaster said:

Because there's nothing to really complain about with those players

Much of Jake's problems stem from the expectations and draft position. Few are the times the Canucks have drafted in the top ten and EVERY one of them was a home run before. If Horvat at #9 was that good then and #6 should be better.

It didn't help that the club kept calling him a power forward and a big hitter and when benched it was because he wasn't hitting or doing enough.

If the same scrutiny had been placed on Juloevi, an even higher draft pick, a #5 pick should a star for sure it would be fairer.

OJ gets sympathy because that is what the club tells people, his injuries, not a serious as Edler or Boeser but excuses.

Now that Juloevi is supposed to be on the club will he be subject to the same criticism or will other excuses be made up. Remember Juloevi was the future PP quarterback, the dynamic defenceman ala Hughes is now.

Out of shape at the start of camp? Who cares, they aren't paid to be fitness gods in the off season, the question should be was he ready to play? Other players come into camp with a few extra pounds and are ignored, Horvat, Pearson, Boeser all at one time or another have not been in prime shape the first day with the comments, they will get into game shape, it takes a few days, that is the long way to say out of shape.

People complain about Jake because the club wants it that way, by zeroing on him the rest of the smelly stuff get buried under another "Jake misses check" story, forget that Hughes or Horvat were on the ice for 5 goals against, Jake becomes the main story. They lose by one, and Jake had missed one shot in the third, on his 16th shift of the game, in his 11th minute of icetime playing with anchors, but hey lets crup on him instead.

Those guys making 3+ mil a season need to be held to the same standards, Pearson is worse then Jake and he gets to play full time with one of the best players on the team all the time, why do you think they are so stoked to get a goal scorer on the line, because Pearson can't.

[Lazurus]

4 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

Jake is fine being a third line right wing goal scorer who can move up with injury's. The problem with Jake is Green, the third line should be   Motte - Gaudette - Virtanen .

Or maybe Bailey - Gaudette - Virtanen . Ether way speed would make that line away more effective . Green has a thing for Virtanen that wants to keep him harnessed .

Thats not only a good idea, apparently Green must have read your post.

 

I hope that Jake gets a regular shift out there and if there is a problem they "let him play it out and get his confidence back" that is what they do for most players.

And if there is going to be this intense scrutiny on him, I hope the magnifying glass also goes on the rest of the organization,

[JeremyCuddles]

On 1/8/2021 at 12:25 PM, garthsbutcher said:

Just wait till he gets to to the  playoffs, he will be a whole different guy, OH WAIT, LOL

Yeah cause one playoffs in a weird situation with Covid is a great indicator of how he'll be in the playoffs. Although if we're being honest he's never gonna be a point producer on this team. Or at least with Green as coach. Not taking shots at Green, just saying it's pretty clear how he views Jake. Jake will be a serviceable 3rd liner that can fill top 6 when needed. The fanbase's expectations haven't changed since 2014 sadly. So Jake will always be a loved or hated player.