ice orca Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 hour ago, goblix said: Chiming in on this part, how tall someone is isn't everything with the term 'size' and actually the biggest factor is weight as its the pounds that do the actual pounding (pun intended) Virtanen is 220 pounds and the frame for it to fill in without him being Wellwood cheeseburger chubby. Nylander is a slim jim and if he gets to 220 it's by knocking down way too many beers and it's going to show up on the ice. In short Nylander will never get to 220 pounds. Height is only paid attention to because one will know that a 6' 5" and above hockey player is going to be at least 210-220 pounds. Virtanen came into camp like the cheese burger Wellwood this year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblix Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, ice orca said: Virtanen came into camp like the cheese burger Wellwood this year. yap haha, part of the growing pains of big physical players.. Learning the whole strength and conditioning pro way of life. One can get by with that in junior but not the NHL / AHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Toews said: Very few prospects manage to live up to expectations or even exceed them. It wasn't a long time ago that people thought that Hodgson, Schroeder or Kassian had 1st line talent. Until these players make an impact in the NHL you cannot claim that these past few drafts have yielded more players than two decades. Success should be measured by results not "potential". 2 hours ago, elvis15 said: There is the devil's advocate point that a friend of mine liked to remind me of though: potential means very little until they're using that potential to actually help the Canucks. Hodgson was the leading scorer at the WJHC, Schroeder scored the most points all time for the US in the same tournament, others were looking like picks that could really help but never really materialized. You're right that every prospect has their potential, and a lot of management's picks have been looking quite good, but I'm not going to get too excited until they can at least show some of that in the NHL. Definately agree with both of you. "Lindenning have drafted more elite and NHL potential players in the three drafts than we have in the past two decades, so stop the hate." Just to be clear, I wasn't claiming we drafted more NHL players (impossible to make that statement for another decade), I was claiming that we have more quantity of players that look like they can make the NHL one day, but as Elvis said, hope more than a few can show something before we get too excited. Edited February 7, 2017 by MrCanuck94 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 13 hours ago, elvis15 said: There is the devil's advocate point that a friend of mine liked to remind me of though: potential means very little until they're using that potential to actually help the Canucks. Hodgson was the leading scorer at the WJHC, Schroeder scored the most points all time for the US in the same tournament, others were looking like picks that could really help but never really materialized. You're right that every prospect has their potential, and a lot of management's picks have been looking quite good, but I'm not going to get too excited until they can at least show some of that in the NHL. I always like to look at a player to see how their skills can contribute towards a serious CUP contender. Not so worried about regular season. Virtanen has the size and speed to be a key part of a contender IMO. I viewed Kassian the same way. Virtanen has to prove himself but the wait, if he does, would be well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Boudrias said: I always like to look at a player to see how their skills can contribute towards a serious CUP contender. Not so worried about regular season. Virtanen has the size and speed to be a key part of a contender IMO. I viewed Kassian the same way. Virtanen has to prove himself but the wait, if he does, would be well worth it. As I have stated before: how long do we wait for Jake? Maybe Jake will never get it, while with us? He might need to be traded, much like Kassian, once or twice to realize he's not given an NHL spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaSwede Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Alflives said: As I have stated before: how long do we wait for Jake? Maybe Jake will never get it, while with us? He might need to be traded, much like Kassian, once or twice to realize he's not given an NHL spot? How about we at least let him play out his first season of being eligible to even play in the AHL as the barest of minimals? Hes 20 years old. Edited February 7, 2017 by DeltaSwede 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 minute ago, DeltaSwede said: How about we at least let him play out his first season of being eligible to even play in the AHL as the barest of minimals? Hes 20 years old. I agree. But how long does JB wait on this kid? I say Jake gets this summer. If he shows up to camp (again) overweight and not fit, then he's in big trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBoGo53 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, J.R. said: Already covered Ehlers. Because I still think it likely there's a good NHL player in there. Unlike a lot of CDC I'm not worried, like at all, about 'RIGHT NOW!' I'm happy to give him a couple years to figure it out. I think we can pick more players like Nylander in the next few years and we already have Baer, and Boeser coming along but we don't have other Virtanen's. How can you compare Baer and Nylander with a straight face? That's like saying Toronto has a Virtanen in Matt Martin or Edmonton has a Virtanen in Kassian Edited February 7, 2017 by GoBoGo53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 minute ago, GoBoGo53 said: How can you compare Baer and Nylander with a straight face? That's like saying Toronto has a Virtanen in Matt Martin Like this And FWIW, I didn't really 'compare' them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 minute ago, GoBoGo53 said: How can you compare Baer and Nylander with a straight face? That's like saying Toronto has a Virtanen in Matt Martin or Edmonton has a Virtanen in Kassian And at this point Edmonton and Toronto might as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBoGo53 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Just now, J.R. said: Like this And FWIW, I didn't really 'compare' them. "If we can pick a few players like Nylander". LIke that's so easy, Nylander outproduced the Sedins in the Swedish League and is looking like a star in the NHL. Virtanen's comparables at this point are 4th liners and AHL'ers. Nylander looks like a star. I don't see how anyone could possibly choose Virtanen at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Just now, GoBoGo53 said: at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 minute ago, GoBoGo53 said: "If we can pick a few players like Nylander". LIke that's so easy, Nylander outproduced the Sedins in the Swedish League and is looking like a star in the NHL. Virtanen's comparables at this point are 4th liners and AHL'ers. Nylander looks like a star. I don't see how anyone could possibly choose Virtanen at this point. Well, if you drink up the blue and green koolaide then you could choose Jake too. Im curious what Jake's value in trade would be right now? Is he worth a second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBoGo53 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Just now, Alflives said: Well, if you drink up the blue and green koolaide then you could choose Jake too. Im curious what Jake's value in trade would be right now? Is he worth a second? Not really. He's probably worth a 5th. Better off just keeping him, no point in selling low. It would make Benning look like a fool, and of course the chance that that pick becomes better than Virtanen is slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 16 minutes ago, J.R. said: The question is who would you take right now. I am going to agree with Alf, you would have to take heavy doses of "blue and green koolaide" to still pick Virtanen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 First one to win a cup between Ehlers, Nylander, and Virtanen should be the real winner right? That's what each franchise, player and fans really want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Yes, yes, Ehlers and Nylander are putting up regular season points. Still, a team is more than the sum of its parts - and a part like Virtanen is both elusive to find and highly effective in the playoffs. A physically dominant, 2-way winger who can pound opposing defence on the forecheck and score clutch goals with eite speed and great shot can tilt the ice in a 7 game series. He has a long ways to go to hit that ceiling but it's still attainable. Wasn't a bad pick at the time and can still turn out to be a great asset for the franchise. Hand wringing and whining from the usual suspects aside. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBoGo53 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: Yes, yes, Ehlers and Nylander are putting up regular season points. Still, a team is more than the sum of its parts - and a part like Virtanen is both elusive to find and highly effective in the playoffs. A physically dominant, 2-way winger who can pound opposing defence on the forecheck and score clutch goals with eite speed and great shot can tilt the ice in a 7 game series. He has a long ways to go to hit that ceiling but it's still attainable. Wasn't a bad pick at the time and can still turn out to be a great asset for the franchise. Hand wringing and whining from the usual suspects aside. Virtanen isn't a physically dominant 2 way winger who can pound opposing defence on the forecheck and score clutch goals with eite speed and great shot can tilt the ice in a 7 game series. Suggesting that is like saying Ehlers/Nylander can be Kane, but they aren't there yet. Nothing suggests Virtanen will be the player you describe, at all. The Virtanen I watched since his draft isn't very physical and wasn't good defensively. Virtanen has a major IQ problem that can't just be solved or taught. Fortunately Juolevi/Boeser don't have that issue. Edited February 7, 2017 by GoBoGo53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Just now, GoBoGo53 said: Virtanen isn't a physically dominant 2 way winger who can pound opposing defence on the forecheck and score clutch goals with eite speed and great shot can tilt the ice in a 7 game series. Suggesting that is like saying Ehlers/Nylander can be Kane, but they aren't there yet. Nothing suggests Virtanen will be the player you describe, at all. The Virtanen I watched since his draft isn't very physical and wasn't good defensively. Virtanen had a great stretch in the NHL last year after his WJC where he was physical and good defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 14 minutes ago, Derp... said: First one to win a cup between Ehlers, Nylander, and Virtanen should be the real winner right? That's what each franchise, player and fans really want. Would you say that Boston was the real winner of the Joe Thornton trade because they were able to win a Cup while the Sharks failed to do so? 10 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: Yes, yes, Ehlers and Nylander are putting up regular season points. Still, a team is more than the sum of its parts - and a part like Virtanen is both elusive to find and highly effective in the playoffs. A physically dominant, 2-way winger who can pound opposing defence on the forecheck and score clutch goals with eite speed and great shot can tilt the ice in a 7 game series. He has a long ways to go to hit that ceiling but it's still attainable. Wasn't a bad pick at the time and can still turn out to be a great asset for the franchise. Hand wringing and whining from the usual suspects aside. What clutch goals has he scored? What evidence is there that Virtanen would be great in a playoff series while the other two wont? You don't have to be big or physical to dominate in the playoffs. Heck a couple of years ago three midgets led Tampa to the Cup Final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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