Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[snizzle_]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Get the f**k over it

 

No it won't.   Why?  Because Demko Tryamkin Stewart and Pettit will save that draft.

 

Ironically while everyone is whining about Virtanen those other 4 picks have all the showings of solid nhl players

 

Might be time to just get the hell over it and ease off Virtanen because the other 4 look pretty damned good in comparator their draft positions

 

Or...sit and whine about Virtanen  for the next 2 decades like this fan base always does

Wow there, calm down. Stewart is barely an ECHL player and we didn't even sign Pettit.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, junglesniper said:

Wow there, calm down. Stewart is barely an ECHL player and we didn't even sign Pettit.

Calm down nothing.  Stewart has promise Pettit is a ? The others mentioned ate doing great.

 

Watching this fan base pick apart this kid endlessly is frigging tiresome.  Only less tiresome by inches than the cries of should have drafted.

 

 

[Tystick]

7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Get the f**k over it

 

No it won't.   Why?  Because Demko Tryamkin Stewart and Pettit will save that draft.

 

Ironically while everyone is whining about Virtanen those other 4 picks have all the showings of solid nhl players

 

Might be time to just get the hell over it and ease off Virtanen because the other 4 look pretty damned good in comparator their draft positions

 

Or...sit and whine about Virtanen  for the next 2 decades like this fan base always does

How about Gaudette? What a surprise he's been.

 

Don't waste your time getting mad at people here.

It's annoying but they have a right to criticize, and I can see their side when you look at Nylander and Ehlers right now. That said I'm not worried at all about Virtanen, he'll be in the NHL full time in 1-2 years.

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

35 minutes ago, junglesniper said:

I watched the Utica game tonight against the Marlies, and because of the praise Green gave Virtanen after the Penguins game last week, I thought I was going to see a different Jake all together. To my disappointment I saw the same things that plagued him in Vancouver to star the season. While it was just one game, I just wanted to see some type of salvation that would in still some confidence in me that he'll find his way.

He still looks lost. 

 

Now, a lot of it isn't his fault. The Canucks have been trying to make the playoffs all year, and in doing so, they've stripped Utica of many players who should be the Veteran drivers of that Comets team. Guys like Megna, Chaput and Skille should be in the minors insulating our picks, but they're up here while the Comets are one of the lowest scoring teams in the AHL.

 

However, Virtanen is not off the hook, because he doesn't look to be doing his part (at least not tonight). He took those quick shifts where he would change on the backcheck and still looks a little disengaged. The biggest issue I had with him tonight was his boardplay, something that management has been trying to work with him for awhile. He loses way too any puck battles for his size and speed, it's very frustrating to watch. He's now on the first PP unit, sometimes hovering around that left side one-timer spot, but he's never in position or reading the play well enough to get open... He's on the powerplay and he can't get open...

 

I'll be watching more Utica games in the future, so hopefully this one is just a one-off, but considering his very poor production in the minors, it could be exactly where he is.

 

For those who want to watch games as well, I found a really good link to watch most games:  http://onhockey.tv/

That's not encouraging to hear.

 

I really hope his defence gets some improving while he's in Utica but another 3 goal game for the Comets, another -1 for Virtanen which isn't great. He's well back of the 8 ball now, hopefully by the end of this season he can get back to about average then spend all of next year working on his defence, then when he's around 22 start working on scoring and around 23-25 he can maybe break into the NHL.

 

It's going to be a slow, long path but if the kid has the work-ethic and puts in the effort, he'll make it eventually. Really hope he doesn't become the next Torres or worse, Hodgson and go all diva on us. He's got to stay humble through all of this, put his head down and learn from one of the best.

 

Gaunce is a perfect example - his defence and physicality in the NHL is brilliant and a sign of years of hard work at the Utica level. Now he's gone back to Utica to work on his offence. As slow and painful as it is, that's the trajectory we need Virtanen to follow.

 

If it means getting players in to help him in Utica then so be it. Bolster Utica with playmakers if need be to help Virtanen. He's a 6th overall pick and will be always compared to Nylander and Ehlers who are going to be perennial scorers for the next decade in the NHL so we have to do everything in our power to make Virtanen at least solid defensively, physically and an occasional NHL scorer.

 

1) Leave him for 2016-2017 to get his game back to square one. Just focus on not getting scored on too much. Position and defence first.

2) Spend all of 2017-2018 working on solid defence, fighting along the boards, getting the puck out of the D zone. Some PK responsibility would be nice too.

3) In 2018-2019 get him working on offence a little bit more, get some Utica players in there to help him out, even if they're veterans (eg. Burrows/Hansen if not traded?)

4) 2019-2020 - give him a sniff at the NHL again, hopefully by then he can produce at a 10-20 goal pace while playing decent defence and hit occasionally.

 

To be honest if he can't do that by 2020 this is officially a wasted pick and we've made a massive mistake. Up until then, it's unfair to judge the kid. Of course early goings aren't good and we have to be patient, but I think that's a fair trajectory and time to wait for him. Any longer and he's not producing with the rest of the young core. We need all our kids producing at their best together if we want to take a stab at the Cup, and 2020 is around when we'll be at our best (Boeser in his prime, Juolevi at the NHL in a top-4 role, Stecher, Tryamkin, Hutton all top-4 guys then, Gudbranson still around, possibly Tanev as a tertiary defender, Horvat in his prime as captain, Granlund and Baertschi still producing). Hopefully the 2017 pick will be a high one, skilled guy who can step into the NHL a bit earlier and every pick up until 2020 will be either very high picks who are good to jump in, or late picks that we can brew for the next wave of Canucks.

[saucypass]

4 hours ago, DeNiro said:

As Gillis showed though, you miss on too many drafts and you won't be able to fill the team with enough talent to compete.

And the reason he was given that many chances to draft the right players was because his team was playing well, hence my initial comment. It was his response and lack of a plan to make up for this deficiency after the team was trending downwards that cost him his job. Also I don't think the Jake pick alone will cost him his job (but if he does get fired this pick will be looked at) as he will have other drafts to make up for it.

But yes, I agree with what you're saying

Edited February 8, 2017 by suitup

[cuporbust]

6 hours ago, suitup said:

Nope. If he gets fired it won't be because he fanned on a pick (albeit a high profile pick). When it comes to firing a GM it's typically because of how the team itself is doing and the direction of where the GM is steering the ship. 

Lol. Fanned on a pick? Guess there is no chance a 20 year old still might turn out just fine 

[saucypass]

Just now, cuporbust said:

Lol. Fanned on a pick? Guess there is no chance a 20 year old still might turn out just fine 

Maybe you should read the other posts before you come in with your passive aggressiveness. The question was asked from Alf to me in a hypothetical situation, no need to be upset. The question is phrased under the assumption (and a perfectly reasonable one) that JB fanned on this pick and whether it'll play a big factor into JB getting fired should he be in the near future. 

[cuporbust]

2 minutes ago, suitup said:

Maybe you should read the other posts before you come in with your passive aggressiveness. The question was asked from Alf to me in a hypothetical situation, no need to be upset. The question is phrased under the assumption (and a perfectly reasonable one) that JB fanned on this pick and whether it'll play a big factor into JB getting fired should he be in the near future. 

Ah. My mistake. I d say it will take more then that. Even at 6th overall , the average success rate is not overwhelming. U would have to look at all his picks , not just jake because he was picked high. One 6th overall pick doesnt lose a GM his job. One could even say its already offset by picking boeser. I remember that draft , and even the commentators were saying boeser was not the BPA at that spot. Now, even Craig Button said he is probably the best forward prospect not playing in the nhl. And thats one example. Look at our young blueline. 

 

To think virtanen would cost him his job is ridiculous 

[saucypass]

1 minute ago, cuporbust said:

Ah. My mistake. I d say it will take more then that. Even at 6th overall , the average success rate is not overwhelming. U would have to look at all his picks , not just jake because he was picked high. One 6th overall pick doesnt lose a GM his job. One could even say its already offset by picking boeser. I remember that draft , and even the commentators were saying boeser was not the BPA at that spot. Now, even Craig Button said he is probably the best forward prospect not playing in the nhl. And thats one example. Look at our young blueline. 

 

To think virtanen would cost him his job is ridiculous 

All good! Yep, which is what the post you originally quoted from me was basically trying to say, which I then elaborated on even further with this following post similar to what you've just said. 

 

1 hour ago, suitup said:

And the reason he was given that many chances to draft the right players was because his team was playing well, hence my initial comment. It was his response and lack of a plan to make up for this deficiency after the team was trending downwards that cost him his job. Also I don't think the Jake pick alone will cost him his job (but if he does get fired this pick will be looked at) as he will have other drafts to make up for it.

But yes, I agree with what you're saying

 

[Butters Stoch]

I wouldn't mind a Jake for Dal Colle swap. They're both in the same boat and a change of scenery could benefit both of them. 

[hammertime]

6 hours ago, DeNiro said:

As Gillis showed though, you miss on too many drafts and you won't be able to fill the team with enough talent to compete.

Sure wish we had a GM who could draft guys late like. Tryamkin, Gaudette, Boeser, McCann. Your right JB sucks at drafting. So he might have whiffed on Virtanen at the time a goalscoring power fwd was the biggest desire for the franchise. I'm not ready to give up on Jake he has the tools the stuff he has to fix is the easy stuff like eating right and growing up. Finding a PF intimidator that can play top 6 is one of the most precious and rare assets in the NHL I may be disappointed with the pick but I'm certainly not upset that JB made it if he pans out his value would be infinitely higher than Ehlers/Nylander. JB grabbed skill in Boeser, McCann with his next 2 1st rounders.   If you look at his late round picks he didn't go for grinders either he swung for more skill guys Jasek Lockwood Gaudette. The JB meat and potatoes myth is regurgitated so effortlessly on this board by people who don't actually make the effort to see further than their nose. 

[knucklehead91]

Can everyone stfu about Virtanen and what pick we should have taken what we "missed out on" etc. Nothing we can do to change the pick, the kid is young and learning he's playing infront of his home crowd, he's still a frickin kid and he's growing up, let him become a bloody man and become a real professional athlete. Let the cards lay where they fall and see where it goes. We passed on Nichuskin and took Horvat, look how that turned out. He has some growing up to do and it looks like he's starting to get his act together, he's dropped weight and is flying around the ice and seems to be all over the place. Keep this thread to updates, go argue elsewhere. If you are a bloody fan then be a fan and show your bloody support for the kid and stop criticizing him. This city along with Montreal and Toronto ruin players confidence and has a healthy hand in stinting development by being so overly critical. Bring positivity. 

[Phat Fingers]

13 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

Players have down years that's just the way it is, you can't contribute that to other teams picking up on their tendencies.  You can't expect Gaudreau's numbers to contiune to improve every year can you?  Players like Baertschi don't show toughness but if you circle them with linemates who do, it can work.

 

Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in this league and you said it yourself, LL can sell off Nylander if he chooses to and you know damn well he will get a high return.  He could sell us Nylander for Virtanen ++ If he really wanted to.

 

We haven't seen WN in the playoffs yet although he did put up 11 points in 14 AHL playoff games.  If JV could produce half the amount of offense as WN does then I take his toughness and size all day but for now WN >>> JV and it's not even debatable imo.

 

WN crashing the crease against one of the tougher teams in the league.  I am yet to see JV score a goal like this, although he did score that goal off his face that one time but that was more of an accident..

 

 

 

 

I am not saying you are wrong to like Nylander.  I do not, and did not think he was the player to go with and still don't. As you alluded too, Baer is in Nylanders spot on our team, plays a better two way game and was had for a second round pick. So without drafting a top ten pick we already have a very comparable player to Nylander that plays a more complete game. 

 

IMO WN is a player that needs other really good players to be good. He cannot play defence and IMO will fold like a cheap tent in a tough physical series. A player that is suited to the east but would get eaten up in the west. 

 

So even with poor early returns on Jake, I would still take him in the draft over WN.  Not over Ehlers, who was my pick going into the draft, or Larkin, or Pasternak.  

 

 

EW

 

[GoBoGo53]

1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

I am not saying you are wrong to like Nylander.  I do not, and did not think he was the player to go with and still don't. As you alluded too, Baer is in Nylanders spot on our team, plays a better two way game and was had for a second round pick. So without drafting a top ten pick we already have a very comparable player to Nylander that plays a more complete game. 

 

IMO WN is a player that needs other really good players to be good. He cannot play defence and IMO will fold like a cheap tent in a tough physical series. A player that is suited to the east but would get eaten up in the west. 

 

So even with poor early returns on Jake, I would still take him in the draft over WN.  Not over Ehlers, who was my pick going into the draft, or Larkin, or Pasternak.  

 

 

EW

 

Comparing Sven and Nylander really isn't comparable though. Nylander is on pace to DOUBLE Bae's career high in points in only his ROOKIE season. Takeaways, shot supression, also show Nylander is a better two way player than Bae so no clue where you get that from.

That's like saying the Ducks have a comparable player to Bo in Vermette, or that Detroit have a similar player to Tanev in Smith, or that Toronto has a similar player to Virtanen in Martin. Bae and Nylander are on completely different tiers of players. 

[Alflives]

11 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Get the f**k over it

 

No it won't.   Why?  Because Demko Tryamkin Stewart and Pettit will save that draft.

 

Ironically while everyone is whining about Virtanen those other 4 picks have all the showings of solid nhl players

 

Might be time to just get the hell over it and ease off Virtanen because the other 4 look pretty damned good in comparator their draft positions

 

Or...sit and whine about Virtanen  for the next 2 decades like this fan base always does

There have been a lot of drafts missed.  I'm still whining about not choosing Jagr, and selecting Nedved:(

[Gaudette Celly]

17 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

How you came to that conclusion is beyond me. 

Maybe this has something to do with it:

 

On 2017-02-04 at 11:43 AM, The 5th Line said:

  I feel like I am watching a completely different player than everybody else.   I am really freaked out actually,  it's like I'm living in my own little world and I see things differently.  Me and Alf are gonna be locked up in the psych ward together real soon

No worries, unless DeNiro grabs a Snickers he's headed there as well.  Maybe then you can have your Two Minutes Hate4Jake huddled together in private instead of spamming it on every single page here.

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Maybe this has something to do with it:

 

No worries, unless DeNiro grabs a Snickers he's headed there as well.  Maybe then you can have your Two Minutes Hate4Jake huddled together in private instead of spamming it on every single page here.

Interesting you choose a 1984 allusion.  Why so?

[Gaudette Celly]

8 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

You're right this is a hockey forum, the true losers and the true trolls are the ones who use outlets like twitter to actually go out of their way to personally attack somebody and it's pretty sickening.  As for CDC and HF I truly hope Jake never reads these boards, like you said it is fair game to discuss what he is doing currently inside the organization and if he wants us to stop being negative then he needs to play better, but it's not as much about playing better as it is about just working harder.  People can still respect you if you don't pan out as long as you work hard.  Yakupov actually gets a lot of praise in Edmonton despite being one of the all time biggest busts in NHL history.  He put his head down and worked hard, just couldn't figure it out

Sorry to burst your big-headed ego bubble, but it likely takes a whole lot more than an embittered keyboard warrior spamming endlessly about Jake being a chump to upset him.  In fact, he and his friends probably laugh at you and your lil cadre and come here for entertainment.  "All he can do is skate"...

[Gaudette Celly]

3 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

All you ever do is leave sarcastic remarks and complain about other people's complaining and it's getting old.  I'm not breaking any rules here so if you want to provide some real perspective or opinion on Jake and is play I'm all ears.  If not, beat it.  

Would think if you'd paid attention the past couple weeks you'd be getting the message by now from a number of people here about your incessant and repetitive complaining about the same things over and over, but it evidently hasn't sunk in yet as you simply retreated into victim mentality.  Speaking of stale, is 800 polluted pages not enough HateTheJake therapy, or is there simply no ability or desire to add anything new or constructive?

[Mr.53]

Like it or not, Jake is looking like he was a bad pick. I'm not going to come in here and pretend, I was a big Jake Virtanen supporter. I believed that he could have been an Evander Kane type of player without the off ice issues. Serious skill is good, but you also need impact powerforwards on your team. Maybe Jake will turn it around, and I think/hope he will, but as it stands right now, he's looking more like a maybe when it comes to becoming a top 6 forward and other guys like Ehlers and Nylander are looking more like sure things and on their way to becoming all star superstars. 

 

Imagine a Ehlers - Horvat - Boeser line... That's a real top 6 line that can do damage. But anyway. If I had to rerank/redraft Jakes draft today.

 

1. Aaron Ekblad (An absolute two-way beast since day 1. He may be struggling, but number 1 Defensemen don't grow on trees)
2. Leon Draisaitl (Honestly the closest to making a case for number 1. If not for McDavid, he'd be the number 1 center)
3. Sam Reinhart (Beast player and coming along well. Plays well with different guys. Should be a top scorer soon.)
4. Nik Ehlers (Incredibly speed, skill, and offensive ability. One of, if not the best pure offensive talent)
5. David Pasternak (Huge sleeper making a case to be a top 5 pick. Great two-way and offensive skill)
6. Dylan Larkin (Also a huge sleeper. Struggling a bit this season, but has shown incredible two-way ability)
7. Willie Nylander (Similar to Ehlers in being an incredible offensive talent. Not as good as Ehlers but close.)
8. Sam Bennett (Good two-way player that is still waiting to breakout. Shows flashes of greatness)
9. Nick Ritchie (Might deserve to be lower, but he's showing he can play on the NHL level and is still an irreplaceable talent, adding value)
10. Robby Fabbri (Great offensive player who has risen. He is small and fragile, as well as not the best defender, but he's not bad either.)
11. Brandon Perlini (Big body who has honestly shocked me with how well he's done. We'll see if he continues.)
12. Kasperi Kapenen (Great talent who has shown he has mastered the AHL. He will move up soon to see if he can put it together.)
13. Jake Virtanen (Still an incredible raw talent, but has taken major steps back in putting the overall package together.)
14. Haydn Fleury (Still a good defensive prospect, but not a prospect that stands out ahead of other defensemen.)
15. Michael Dal Colle (Major dissapointment so a far on every level. Also doesn't have the raw strength and speed of a Virtanen to fall back on)

 

That's pretty bad if Jake isn't even top 10 in his draft class right now and trending downwards. The good news however, is that it's not like he's a different player. He's still the same Jake Virtanen with the incredible speed, strength, size, and raw shot power that we drafted. The problem is he's struggling to adapt to the next level. This is a huge problem, as that is truly the biggest leap to the next level. But still, he has all the tools to be a successful NHL player, he's just going to take a little more extra time to get there. The kid scored 13 points in 55 games as a 19 year old in the NHL. That's actually not bad for a 19 year old powerforward coming into the league. 

 

Jake has just lost his place a little bit. He has to get his mind right, and start working overtime. He needs to work 24/7 this summer on 3 things. 

 

1. His shot: It's already powerful, and incredibly strong. He just needs to work on accuracy. Do the Kesler method. 100 shots a day minimum, no excuses. Even on vacation. It will get accurate. Once the shot is down, he can work with Travis Green next season, for at least the beginning part, on positioning and how to get open. Jake will never be a high profile passer, but he has the ability to be a high profile finisher. A guy you hand the puck to, to go to the net and finish the play. He has the speed to be able to get open, but right now focus on the shot.
2. Conditioning: One of the things people didn't really consider when he was drafted was his conditioning. Yes he can be a human wrecking ball and play what I like to call as defensive end hockey, pushing the pace and smashing into anyone who doesn't get the puck off fast, but that takes a toll. That is exhausting. And the thing that Jake didn't realize is on the NHL level, everyone, even the 4th line grinders, have to be in tip top shape. Not only just for a single games purpose, but to get through a whole season with some consistency. Playing 3 or 4 games a week on an NHL level is not easy. It's exactly why a lot of rookies come into the league a little bit lighter than their preferred weight. get used to the league, the system, and the demand on your body night in and night out, then start gradually putting on the lean muscle you can handle. Hit the gym Jake. Hit the gym.
3. His defensive game: Jake has been blessed with incredible speed, strength, as well as other skills. He has all the tools to be a two-way force in the league. What he needs to worry about is being able to be a reliable and punishing defender. That is what will get him a ticket to the NHL. Don't focus on being a high profile scorer yet, focus on being a guy that other players day, "damn..." when they have to lineup against you. Once he get's that down he will get bottom 6 minutes, and from there he can start to re-adapt his game to the NHL level. Ask Bo. The defensive game is the hardest part to get down. Once you can handle that, you can get reliable minutes on the NHL level. Once you start getting trusted to play reliable minutes, the offense starts to come. Again, Jake has all the tools to be a homerun pick and type of player, but he's going to take time.