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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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14 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Typical cowardly post.  No surprise there 

:lol:

 

It's almost adorable how angry you get.

 

Quick.  Give us another opinion of me based on someone else's opinion of me like you do with Virtanen 

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13 hours ago, Derp... said:

Hey Everybody. I know there are lots of people on the JV is not doing as well as I want train in the AHL. There is of course some good reasoning for this, but I want to bring a couple things to your attention to help ease the pain. There is a reason both his coach and our GM are saying good things about Virtanen right now. Especially when we look at his peer group in the AHL this season.

Firstly there are 63 players between 19 and 21 in the AHL this year that have played more than 10 games. Let's look at the 5 on 5 stats for those players and see where Jake lines up.

First up Primary Assists Per 60 at 5v5:

Jake has 7 A1's this year, and is currently producing 0.84 A1's/60 that is 10th best out of 63 players some younger and older than him. Better than guys like, Barbashev, Dal Colle, McCann, Svechnikov, Gurianov, Goldobin, Fiala, Milano, Fischer, Meier, Scherbak, Kapanen, K. Connor, Roslovic, Schmaltz, Kempe, Vrana, Perlini, and more. Just take that in for a sec. Virtanen, the so called low hockey sense player is producing more primary assists at 5v5 than guys like Fiala, Goldobin, and Meier. That is a good sign if I ever saw one no?

Let's look at Secondary Assists per 60 5v5 (Also known as the great inflator):

Jake has produced only 0.24 A2's per 60. which is 17th lowest out of the 63 players at 5v5. I know it seems weird to think that less A2's is better than more, but it shows that Jake isn't benefiting from his linemates creating goals on their own so much. While other players are getting more help from teammates at 5v5 such as Barbashev, McCann, Svechnikov, Gurianov, Goldobin, Fiala, Milano, Fischer, Meier, Scherbak, K. Connor, Roslovic, Schmaltz, Vrana, Perlini, and more.

What about the lack of Goals?

It is a concern, but Jakes also been unlucky this year. He's averaging 2.27 shots per game in all situations, that's good for 14th best despite his limited power play time. He's also sporting the 7th worst shooting percentage at 4.5% which is not sustainable in my opinion. For comparison, the top goals/60 players in all situations have shooting percentages that range from 9% (Fiala) to 28.5%! (Perlini). 13 players have a shooting percentage more than 3X what Jake has currently. 45 have more than double Jakes Sh%. The average shooting percentage is 11.1%. If Jake had the average shooting percentage he would have 12 goals this year. The average amount of goals for all 63 players is currently 8.43 in all situations. 8 even strength goals would put him in the top 15 for goals total and the top 15 for goals per 60 at evens.

All together Jake is performing better than average at 5v5 in 6 areas while being younger than the average 19-21 year old in the AHL with less than average ice time by about 3-4 shifts.

 

  • Primary Assists Total
  • A1/GP
  • A1/60
  • QOT is slightly worse than average
  • Shots per game (14th best with 2.27, avg. is 1.76)
  • Shots/60 is 13.26 that is tied for 4th best with DeBrusk (Only Fiala, Perlini, and Kapanen have better shots per 60)
     

As you can see although the points aren't there yet, Jake Virtanen is actually performing pretty well with his peer group in certain areas in the AHL. Don't be all Doom and Gloom! He's been a bit unlucky, but is still generating offense in a positive way.

Stats from http://prospect-stats.com/AHL/2016/forwards/?state_selected=5v5

 

13 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Not angry, just pretty baffled at how much of a coward you are.  I will answer to your posts though, I won't make anything up and I won't run away and hide

 

The funny thing is, when it comes to Virtanen, from day 1 I said that I expected him to struggle.  

 

 

Here cupcake.  Instead of acting like an internet tough guy or the end all be all of hockey (when you're more of an Eklund)

 

Refute this.  I know you're ready to replace your Ehlers poster with one of me and I am flattered but I think it is important after flat out saying you hope Virtanen busts just so you can be proven right, after saying you've heard things that you could and would never speak of about his character and his personal life and after all of the crap you've said about him perdio on this forum

 

I think it is far more important that you address these FACTS than pursue your lust of me.

 

**Edit, this is incredibly well written.  While you may at times provide a decent counterpoint to the endless cheerleading you're never going to be off the hook for some of the things you've said in this thread and your ongoing baseless comentary.

Edited by Warhippy
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49 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

That's about the single common consensus thing we hear.  Similar to what people said about E. Kane in junior.

 

Personally I could care less as long as he plays.  I'd take a bad attitude or two if it means success in the playoffs.

 

But the culture that's engendered with this team won't allow for that.  Even Keslers attitude was kept under wrap for almost a decade

Dude... you said this just last week complaining about Evander's attitude in the Juolevi thread... make up your mind.

 

On March 7, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Warhippy said:

You know who is REALLY exciting though?

 

That Evander Kane kid.  

 

Seriously, you want the it factor go to a gap and watch teenagers croon over crappy sweat shop garments.  We don't want the "it factor" we want champions who do it on the ice shut their mouths and get ready for the next game.

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24 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

 

Here cupcake.  Instead of acting like an internet tough guy or the end all be all of hockey (when you're more of an Eklund)

 

Refute this.  I know you're ready to replace your Ehlers poster with one of me and I am flattered but I think it is important after flat out saying you hope Virtanen busts just so you can be proven right, after saying you've heard things that you could and would never speak of about his character and his personal life and after all of the crap you've said about him perdio on this forum

 

I think it is far more important that you address these FACTS than pursue your lust of me.

 

**Edit, this is incredibly well written.  While you may at times provide a decent counterpoint to the endless cheerleading you're never going to be off the hook for some of the things you've said in this thread and your ongoing baseless comentary.

Though The rest of us would prefer you two go about your business in private, one thing about this post have me pause for thought.  I think you're right that the consistently negative eleme ts on this board do so, in large part, because they have a deep seeded need to be proven right.  They hope, not for prospects to hit, but to fail because it will validate their original feelings about a certain player and we will all see how smart they are.

 

I don't always like all the moved/picks, but once they are part of the org, I want them to succeed because I am a fan of the team.

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57 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We hear JB drafts FIRST for character, and then we keep hearing a lot of character flaws in Virtanen.  Why did JB draft this kid, who CLEARLY has such obvious character issues?  It makes no sense, right?  Every other JB pick is a guy of really strong character, and then there's Jake.  

This is why I believe there was pressure from ownership, either explicitly or implicitly, to draft Jake.

 

Aquaman had a PR nightmare on his hands after the disaster that was the firing of Gillis and Torts, so what better way to turn around the wave of negativity that ownership was facing than by hiring Trev as the president then having JB draft the highly ranked local kid.

 

I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

 

 

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27 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Dude... you said this just last week complaining about Evander's attitude in the Juolevi thread... make up your mind.

 

Ya, and?  Post the context it was in as well as the post I was responding too. 

 

14 minutes ago, stawns said:

Though The rest of us would prefer you two go about your business in private, one thing about this post have me pause for thought.  I think you're right that the consistently negative eleme ts on this board do so, in large part, because they have a deep seeded need to be proven right.  They hope, not for prospects to hit, but to fail because it will validate their original feelings about a certain player and we will all see how smart they are.

 

I don't always like all the moved/picks, but once they are part of the org, I want them to succeed because I am a fan of the team.

I would like to ignore said person even more so than I do.  But the endless responses drag me off the fence.

 

I agree.  People make their minds up early in the season about their choice.  Then will stand by it, honestly the conviction is good.  It is a great trait to have.  But to wish ill fortune upon a person simply to be proven correct is absolutely astonishing really.

 

It's akin to hoping the plane the team is on crashes or hoping Boston wins game 7 in vancouver because you wanted someone or something else.

 

I am very critical of our players in my own right, but I never really get a chance to speak that because someone is always one upping me in the concerns I have or desire toa ddress.  Then I have to take a step back and think "

 

Whoa...this guy really hates prospect X or Y, I need to look a little deeper in to their reasoning"

 

The turn around is usually they are basing their opinion off of baseless opinions others have had, or from cherry picked statistical information.

 

Virtanen at this point has done nothing to deserve the 6th overall position he was selected in.  he has shown a lot of the issues many had about him, he has shown to be a lower IQ player than was originally thought and is appearing to be very unprofessional about his off season and attitude towards commitment to success.

 

But he IS in fact improving and we will have to monitor his progress over the next 2-4 years.  Which is time we have because we're not competing for 3-5 years anyways.

 

But to hope he fails because of it simply to be able to say "Told ya so" is absolutely disturbing.  At that point you're not even a fan of the game let alone the team.  

 

**Edit**

 

I will await said response to Derp's incredibly well written post.  In the mean time Stawns, have a gooder

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1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Ya, and?  Post the context it was in as well as the post I was responding too. 

 

I would like to ignore said person even more so than I do.  But the endless responses drag me off the fence.

 

I agree.  People make their minds up early in the season about their choice.  Then will stand by it, honestly the conviction is good.  It is a great trait to have.  But to wish ill fortune upon a person simply to be proven correct is absolutely astonishing really.

 

It's akin to hoping the plane the team is on crashes or hoping Boston wins game 7 in vancouver because you wanted someone or something else.

 

I am very critical of our players in my own right, but I never really get a chance to speak that because someone is always one upping me in the concerns I have or desire toa ddress.  Then I have to take a step back and think "

 

Whoa...this guy really hates prospect X or Y, I need to look a little deeper in to their reasoning"

 

The turn around is usually they are basing their opinion off of baseless opinions others have had, or from cherry picked statistical information.

 

Virtanen at this point has done nothing to deserve the 6th overall position he was selected in.  he has shown a lot of the issues many had about him, he has shown to be a lower IQ player than was originally thought and is appearing to be very unprofessional about his off season and attitude towards commitment to success.

 

But he IS in fact improving and we will have to monitor his progress over the next 2-4 years.  Which is time we have because we're not competing for 3-5 years anyways.

 

But to hope he fails because of it simply to be able to say "Told ya so" is absolutely disturbing.  At that point you're not even a fan of the game let alone the team.  

I've watched most of his games since December, he is clearly at another level than most others on the ice.  They knew they were getting a project and they are confident in their development process.  Those of us who have been watching him can see it working.

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2 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

I will not deny that the human in me wants to be proven right but my love for this team outweighs that sort of entitlement.  Just because I feel this way about Jake, it doesn't mean I am not a fan of this team.  I will hold hopes for him to become a bottom 6 role player but anything above that is far out of the question imo and it has been from day 1.

 

Don Taylor made some points on the radio today, talking about all of the wingers Jim has brought in lately.  Dahlen, Goldy, Boucher, Shore.  Boeser waiting in the wings, Baertschi as well, plus all of the more unknown prospects we have that can play wing.  Maybe Jim sees Jake as a bottom 6 player already as well

Have you watched him in Utica?

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3 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

I will not deny that the human in me wants to be proven right but my love for this team outweighs that sort of entitlement.  Just because I feel this way about Jake, it doesn't mean I am not a fan of this team.  I will hold hopes for him to become a bottom 6 role player but anything above that is far out of the question imo and it has been from day 1.

 

Don Taylor made some points on the radio today, talking about all of the wingers Jim has brought in lately.  Dahlen, Goldy, Boucher, Shore.  Boeser waiting in the wings, Baertschi as well, plus all of the more unknown prospects we have that can play wing.  Maybe Jim sees Jake as a bottom 6 player already as well

 

you are &^@#ing hilarious man. 

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2 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Not for a few weeks.  

I read that as not since he was in Vancouver, and nothing wrong with that.  It would explain a lot about your position on him, as that would be your point of reference and he clearly wasnt ready for prime time, as most 20 year olds aren't.  He's got a lot of different elements to his game and he's got a very real chance to be an impact player one day.

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Just now, The 5th Line said:

No it's been like I said, maybe about a month.  I've heard good things but a few weeks of solid play in the minors isn't going to change my stance on him.  We'll have to wait and see.  If he becomes anything more than a 3rd line bruiser I will be pleasantly surprised. 

Reads stats and bases opinion without watching

 

Gotcha

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Just now, stawns said:

Reads stats and bases opinion without watching

 

Gotcha

He's too dense to understand why people attack his post. In one sentence he is writing he is not dumping on the kid only stating facts. Then writes Jake only going to become a 3rd line bruiser as an absolute. Everyone knows your stance on Virtanen 5th, stop posingt your negative view of him every time some one post an opposite opinion. You could be right but to post every time someone write something different then your opinion is making you look foolish. Yes some others look just as bad by having a post war with you.

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43 minutes ago, stawns said:

I've watched most of his games since December, he is clearly at another level than most others on the ice.  They knew they were getting a project and they are confident in their development process.  Those of us who have been watching him can see it working.

I don't have time to watch many of the games so I have to go off of the shift by shift videos people are posting.  It's always a solid 12-15 minutes of shift by shift 5 seconds before and after the plays or involvement to ensure you get a good read on the entirety of unfolding events.

 

I'll admit that freely.  But the things people are worried about now, are the things he's improving on the most and that is becoming quite obvious.

 

Like @Alflives my largest fear with Virtanen is his off season.  What/how will he do with himself.  Then afterwards, what happens after his 21st while in utica?  The guy does have a moderate reputation for carousing and or boozing.  Once he's legal in the US how mature will he be and how long until he shakes that average woot legal age mentality and becomes an adult

 

His other on ice issues are improving.  He's 2-4 years away and that's fine.  I'd rather have a finished home than one that leaks, stinks and needs more work.

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1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

I don't have time to watch many of the games so I have to go off of the shift by shift videos people are posting.  It's always a solid 12-15 minutes of shift by shift 5 seconds before and after the plays or involvement to ensure you get a good read on the entirety of unfolding events.

 

I'll admit that freely.  But the things people are worried about now, are the things he's improving on the most and that is becoming quite obvious.

 

Like @Alflives my largest fear with Virtanen is his off season.  What/how will he do with himself.  Then afterwards, what happens after his 21st while in utica?  The guy does have a moderate reputation for carousing and or boozing.  Once he's legal in the US how mature will he be and how long until he shakes that average woot legal age mentality and becomes an adult

 

His other on ice issues are improving.  He's 2-4 years away and that's fine.  I'd rather have a finished home than one that leaks, stinks and needs more work.

He'll likely spend the bulk of next season in Utica, probably first call up with Boeser (fingers crossed), but I see no reAson to think he won't be in the lineup and making an impact the season after that.

 

No offense, but if you don't watch him, then you really have no ground to stand on when complaining about him.  I mean that more in the general sense of "you".

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3 hours ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

This guy I work with used to live in Calgary and his parents used to run this hockey camp thing and he said that he met Jake a few times when he played with the hit men and that he had a horrible personality.  Acted like he was better than everyone. This is just one guys opinion and this was also years ago, but hopefully Jake can shake the attitude as well. (If he hasn't already)

Seen him plenty around town (abbotsford) and his attitude seemed normal. Never heard of any problems. 

 

Imo JV got lost in the fame and all the partying. Dude got lazy. Everything's come easy for him. Getting drafted by his hometown team was probably one the worst things possible. Way too many distractions for him. 

 

Seems like he's finding his way, finally. I see an nhl player but let's see if it translates to top 6. He's gotta put in work though. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Jiggs50 said:

Seen him plenty around town (abbotsford) and his attitude seemed normal. Never heard of any problems. 

 

Imo JV got lost in the fame and all the partying. Dude got lazy. Everything's come easy for him. Getting drafted by his hometown team was probably one the worst things possible. Way too many distractions for him. 

 

Seems like he's finding his way, finally. I see an nhl player but let's see if it translates to top 6. He's gotta put in work though. 

 

 

Good point. Would be hard to fend off all the bunnies and stay away from the parties. He's only human

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2 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

Don Taylor made some points on the radio today, talking about all of the wingers Jim has brought in lately.  Dahlen, Goldy, Boucher, Shore.  Boeser waiting in the wings, Baertschi as well, plus all of the more unknown prospects we have that can play wing.  Maybe Jim sees Jake as a bottom 6 player already as well

Er, you don't intentionally trade for lesser players, regardless of what you currently have.

:picard:

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