Nikita Tryamkin | D

[khay]

14 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Nobody is relieving Tanev of his duties. His deployment this year has been virtually the same as last year, with the only difference being that he's been healthy. Tanev's health has nothing to do with a difference in deployment or usage. 

 

I agree that Myers makes our team better. He's a good option on the second powerplay and he has provided offence at a good rate, especially when you consider his slow start. However, I'm not happy with investing 6 million per year in a 2nd powerplay defenseman. That's inexcusable in my mind when you consider how predictable it was and the effect it will have on our team given our cap situation. I don't think he's a bad player, he's actually been a good addition, just not relative to his cap hit. It's an element that I believe management (and most fans) have often overlooked and it looks like it's going to bite us in the butt starting this summer. 

 

As pointed out before, Myers is #3 on TOI per game on this team. If you look at 5-on-5 time on ice, it becomes clear that Myers is more than just a 2nd PP defenceman. He averages 18:24, #1 on the team in 5-on-5 TOI per game. The reason why Tanev's deployment for PK didn't change is because he is still our best PK defenceman. In fact, it seems like the coaching staff is leaning on Tanev more for PK as his average PK time has increased from 3:16 to 3:36.  I'd say this is because the coaching staff can allocate more 5-on-5 ice time to Myers instead of having to send Tanev out more frequently as seen by drop in his 5-on-5 ice time from 16:47 to 16:12. In fact, even Stecher's 5-on-5 ice time dropped from 17:36 last season to 14:20 this season. Myers has picked up a lot of the 5-on-5 minutes from both Tanev and Stecher, which is exactly what we needed: quality defenceman to fill in the gap between Tanev and Stecher. 

 

Here are the stats:

 

2019-20 season

http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=timeonice&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20192020&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&position=D&playerPlayedFor=franchise.20&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame&page=0&pageSize=50

 

2018-19 season

http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=timeonice&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20182019&seasonTo=20182019&gameType=2&position=D&playerPlayedFor=franchise.20&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame&page=0&pageSize=50

 

Anyways, I'm happy to discuss this more or just let it be. We can just agree to disagree. This discussion led me to look up the stats and I was able to verify that Myers was a good signing so I'd say it was fruitful at least from my perspective.

 

 

[Noble 6]

7 minutes ago, khay said:

 

As pointed out before, Myers is #3 on TOI per game on this team. If you look at 5-on-5 time on ice, it becomes clear that Myers is more than just a 2nd PP defenceman. He averages 18:24, #1 on the team in 5-on-5 TOI per game. The reason why Tanev's deployment for PK didn't change is because he is still our best PK defenceman. In fact, it seems like the coaching staff is leaning on Tanev more for PK as his average PK time has increased from 3:16 to 3:36.  I'd say this is because the coaching staff can allocate more 5-on-5 ice time to Myers instead of having to send Tanev out more frequently as seen by drop in his 5-on-5 ice time from 16:47 to 16:12. In fact, even Stecher's 5-on-5 ice time dropped from 17:36 last season to 14:20 this season. Myers has picked up a lot of the 5-on-5 minutes from both Tanev and Stecher, which is exactly what we needed: quality defenceman to fill in the gap between Tanev and Stecher. 

 

Here are the stats:

 

2019-20 season

http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=timeonice&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20192020&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&position=D&playerPlayedFor=franchise.20&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame&page=0&pageSize=50

 

2018-19 season

http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=timeonice&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20182019&seasonTo=20182019&gameType=2&position=D&playerPlayedFor=franchise.20&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame&page=0&pageSize=50

 

Anyways, I'm happy to discuss this more or just let it be. We can just agree to disagree. This discussion led me to look up the stats and I was able to verify that Myers was a good signing so I'd say it was fruitful at least from my perspective.

 

 

 

I'm aware that Myers plays big minutes, but the discussion was on Myers making Tanev's minutes easier. As I previously said, Myers plays the 2nd easiest minutes on the team (behind Hughes) when looking at zone starts.The minutes he plays aren't the ones that Tanev would normally play. As you said, Myers doesn't replace any of Tanev's tough penalty killing minutes. 

 

There's no evidence that supports the idea that Tanev's minutes/deployment have gotten easier because of Myers. The main difference that Myers has brought is being an upgrade on Gudbranson at 5 on 5 (since that's where most of his minutes are) and being able to fill on on special teams. 

Edited February 16, 2020 by Horvat is a Boss

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I'm aware that Myers plays big minutes, but the discussion was on Myers making Tanev's minutes easier. As I previously said, Myers plays the 2nd easiest minutes on the team (behind Hughes) when looking at zone starts.The minutes he plays aren't the ones that Tanev would normally play. As you said, Myers doesn't replace any of Tanev's tough penalty killing minutes. 

 

There's no evidence that supports the idea that Tanev's minutes/deployment have gotten easier because of Myers. The main difference that Myers has brought is being an upgrade on Gudbranson. 

Yes they have.  The poster you’re responding to just showed you the stats that proved Myers makes Tanev’s minutes easier.  Even I can see that.  

[khay]

15 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I'm aware that Myers plays big minutes, but the discussion was on Myers making Tanev's minutes easier. As I previously said, Myers plays the 2nd easiest minutes on the team (behind Hughes) when looking at zone starts.The minutes he plays aren't the ones that Tanev would normally play. As you said, Myers doesn't replace any of Tanev's tough penalty killing minutes. 

 

There's no evidence that supports the idea that Tanev's minutes/deployment have gotten easier because of Myers. The main difference that Myers has brought is being an upgrade on Gudbranson at 5 on 5 (since that's where most of his minutes are) and being able to fill on on special teams. 

There were two discussion points.

 

1. Does Myers relieve Tanev of hard minutes?

2. Is Myers worth 6 million dollars?

 

Point #1:

Please define hard minutes. It seems like you define it only as PK time. If so, Myers does not take away Tanev's PK time so that ends that discussion. But if you define hard minutes as including 5-on-5 against opposition's scoring lines, then Myers clearly does take some away from Tanev. 

 

Here's a hypothetical situation. We just killed a penalty, for which Tanev was out for 1+ minute. The opposition sends out their scoring line. Baumer and Green looks around and sees that Tanev is gassed. They elect to send out Myers.

 

To me, hard minutes go beyond PK. So I argue that yes, Myers relieve Tanev of hard minutes. But I agree it is debatable and hard to find a concrete proof as to how much relief if any does Myers provide to Tanev.

 

As for point #2:

Myers fills in the gap between Tanev and Stecher by playing most of 5-on-5 on the team. Plays the 2nd unit PP with Edler and have helped it become more effective. He kills penalties. I'd say he is worth 6 million dollars or at least a number that is very close to it.

 

[Noble 6]

10 minutes ago, khay said:

There were two discussion points.

 

1. Does Myers relieve Tanev of hard minutes?

2. Is Myers worth 6 million dollars?

 

Point #1:

Please define hard minutes. It seems like you define it only as PK time. If so, Myers does not take away Tanev's PK time so that ends that discussion. But if you define hard minutes as including 5-on-5 against opposition's scoring lines, then Myers clearly does take some away from Tanev. 

 

Here's a hypothetical situation. We just killed a penalty, for which Tanev was out for 1+ minute. The opposition sends out their scoring line. Baumer and Green looks around and sees that Tanev is gassed. They elect to send out Myers.

 

To me, hard minutes go beyond PK. So I argue that yes, Myers relieve Tanev of hard minutes. But I agree it is debatable and hard to find a concrete proof as to how much relief if any does Myers provide to Tanev.

 

As for point #2:

Myers fills in the gap between Tanev and Stecher by playing most of 5-on-5 on the team. Plays the 2nd unit PP with Edler and have helped it become more effective. He kills penalties. I'd say he is worth 6 million dollars or at least a number that is very close to it.

 

 

1) Does Myers actually play against the oppositions top lines consistently? If he does that would definitely be an area where he's taken some of the load off of Tanev, but I'm not sure he does. Given his relatively easy deployment I would doubt it. 

 

Regarding your scenario, I don't think that does much to illustrate Myers' effectiveness. If Tanev is tired, of course you would put someone else on. The alternative would be not putting anyone else one. Last year when Tanev was tired we threw out Gudbranson; does this make Gudbranson a defenseman capable of playing against the opposition's top lines and taking the load off of Tanev. 

 

2) I would have to simply disagree that a 2nd powerplay and 2nd penalty kill defenseman is worth 6 million. He plays minutes at even strength, but I don't think it's something that someone else couldn't do. I would have even liked to have seen Stetcher get more of a look with those minutes. In the past when Edler/Tanev have gotten hurt he has stepped into those minutes quite well. 

[khay]

13 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

1) Does Myers actually play against the oppositions top lines consistently? If he does that would definitely be an area where he's taken some of the load off of Tanev, but I'm not sure he does. Given his relatively easy deployment I would doubt it. 

 

Regarding your scenario, I don't think that does much to illustrate Myers' effectiveness. If Tanev is tired, of course you would put someone else on. The alternative would be not putting anyone else one. Last year when Tanev was tired we threw out Gudbranson; does this make Gudbranson a defenseman capable of playing against the opposition's top lines and taking the load off of Tanev. 

 

2) I would have to simply disagree that a 2nd powerplay and 2nd penalty kill defenseman is worth 6 million. He plays minutes at even strength, but I don't think it's something that someone else couldn't do. I would have even liked to have seen Stetcher get more of a look with those minutes. In the past when Edler/Tanev have gotten hurt he has stepped into those minutes quite well. 

 

As for Myers relieving Tanev's minutes. If Tanev is tired and all you've got is Biega and Stecher, then yes. You send Tanev out again after a short rest. Hence, injuries.

 

I don't think you understand... he is so good that he is #1 on the team at even strength. You don't play the most minutes by chance. Coaches actually have to think you can handle it. His 5-on-5 play alone makes him a 4-5M defender. Him killing 2nd PP and 2nd PK adds 1-1.5M on top of that to put him at around 5-6.5M.

 

I think Stecher is a very good 3rd pairing defenceman but I don't want to see him play more than 18 minutes a game. He just can't handle bigger players well enough over a long stretches of time. Stecher plays hard but he is not overly fast nor shifty like Hughes to make up for that size disadvantage by just playing hard.

 

[I.Am.Ironman]

3 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Pretty much everything you said in the first paragraph is wrong. 

 

Myers has the second highest offensive zone start percentage among defenseman on the team behind Hughes. They get the easiest minutes on the team. There's narrative that Myers plays tough minutes is false and doesn't have any data supporting it. Tanev is blocking 2.3 shots per game this year; he blocked 2.2 shots per game last year. Tanev isn't blocking any less shots. As previously stated, Myers get's the 2nd most offensive zone starts on the team, so the narrative that he eats up defensive minutes is false. 

 

You're right in saying that we probably wouldn't be first in the division without Myers. He has made a positive impact on our team. However, we also wouldn't be worried about potentially losing Stetcher, bonus overages, paying to move contracts, etc. I don't think replacing Myers with a cheaper option would significantly worsen this team, but it would improve our cap situation considerably. We wouldn't be out of a Playoff spot without Myers I don't think. 

I don't see how it is incorrect in saying that Hughes has increased our posession stats when Tanev is on the ice or that Edler-Myers is a more defensive pairing than Hughes-Tanev. Myers has the second highest Ozone starts because he is on the 2nd PP which skews that statistic. He also, as mentioned, plays more than Tanev as per his TOI. He actually plays over 2:00 more than Tanev 5 on 5. So again, not incorrect to say he relieves 5on5 pressure off of Tanev because he actually plays more than Tanev in this scenario.

 

If Myers wasn't on our team, his minutes would have to be divided amoung our group... and some on Tanev. This "cheaper option" you speak of is ambiguous.. let's call that option Jordie Benn. In this scenario, Benn doesn't play 22mins/game. Love Stetcher but I don't think he is worth "worrying" about losing, he is a bottom pairing Dman. I take Myers over Stetcher 10 times out of 10.

[RakuRaku]

So.... it's been a while since we last heard about possibility of Tram joining us in March... guess it's not happening?? Should we use him as trade bait to land us a good winger for Horvat??

[Hairy Kneel]

58 minutes ago, Virtanen#18 said:

So.... it's been a while since we last heard about possibility of Tram joining us in March... guess it's not happening?? Should we use him as trade bait to land us a good winger for Horvat??

I would trade an older vet first. As a youth movement looking forward to the next 5 years of regular season and playoffs. But our vets have been on the market before with little interest or so it seems. Like how we couldn't unload Hamuis.

[RetroCanuck]

9 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I would trade an older vet first. As a youth movement looking forward to the next 5 years of regular season and playoffs. But our vets have been on the market before with little interest or so it seems. Like how we couldn't unload Hamuis.

Well we almost unloaded Hamhuis but the trade fell through last minute.

 

If trade values remain as high as they are right now then Id consider trading Pearson, Tanev(or Stecher), Fantenberg, Schaller and Sutter.

[Devron]

48 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

Well we almost unloaded Hamhuis but the trade fell through last minute.

 

If trade values remain as high as they are right now then Id consider trading Pearson, Tanev(or Stecher), Fantenberg, Schaller and Sutter.

Funny I’ve seen Pearson name come up a few times. Only consistent linemate Bo has had since Bo has been here. 50-60 point guy, hard on the boards, good shot, team player, 3.7 cap hit. Another year on his cap friendly contract. What am I missing here

[Noble 6]

21 hours ago, khay said:

 

As for Myers relieving Tanev's minutes. If Tanev is tired and all you've got is Biega and Stecher, then yes. You send Tanev out again after a short rest. Hence, injuries.

 

I don't think you understand... he is so good that he is #1 on the team at even strength. You don't play the most minutes by chance. Coaches actually have to think you can handle it. His 5-on-5 play alone makes him a 4-5M defender. Him killing 2nd PP and 2nd PK adds 1-1.5M on top of that to put him at around 5-6.5M.

 

I think Stecher is a very good 3rd pairing defenceman but I don't want to see him play more than 18 minutes a game. He just can't handle bigger players well enough over a long stretches of time. Stecher plays hard but he is not overly fast nor shifty like Hughes to make up for that size disadvantage by just playing hard.

 

 

Stetcher actually lead our team in even strength TOI last year (with more games played) and he stepped into those minutes well. He definitely has bad periods/plays/games, but overall he is a good option to fill those minutes. 

 

I don't think there's anything left to say regarding the rest except fair enough. Thank you for the discussion. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Horvat is a Boss

[khay]

13 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I don't think there's anything left to say except fair enough. Thank you for the discussion. 

Same for me, I learned more about Myers through this discussion. Only weird thing is that somehow this discussion took place on Tryamkin thread...

[Noble 6]

19 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

I don't see how it is incorrect in saying that Hughes has increased our posession stats when Tanev is on the ice or that Edler-Myers is a more defensive pairing than Hughes-Tanev. Myers has the second highest Ozone starts because he is on the 2nd PP which skews that statistic. He also, as mentioned, plays more than Tanev as per his TOI. He actually plays over 2:00 more than Tanev 5 on 5. So again, not incorrect to say he relieves 5on5 pressure off of Tanev because he actually plays more than Tanev in this scenario.

 

If Myers wasn't on our team, his minutes would have to be divided amoung our group... and some on Tanev. This "cheaper option" you speak of is ambiguous.. let's call that option Jordie Benn. In this scenario, Benn doesn't play 22mins/game. Love Stetcher but I don't think he is worth "worrying" about losing, he is a bottom pairing Dman. I take Myers over Stetcher 10 times out of 10.

 

Edler and Myers haven't been a pairing since the first third of the season. Stetcher has played with Edler since then and Myers has been on the bottom pair with Fantenberg (until he got hurt). Edler and Stetcher are the pairing that see's the most defensive assignments. 

 

If Myers relieves pressure on Tanev, can you please explain why:

• Tanev's aTOI is essentially the same as last year
• Tanev still blocks shots at the same rate as last year
• Tanev is still playing the most penalty killing minutes by far

 

I understand that Myers even strength TOI is higher. However, they are mutually exclusive from Tanev's minutes because Tanev is still seeing the same deployment as last year. Myers has essentially replaces Gudbranson and Pouliot's minutes, which adds up to more even strength minutes, but doesn't take anything away from Tanev. I should add that Myers has been better that both Gudbranson defensively and Pouliot offensively, I'm just purely looking at TOI distribution. 

 

As you said, If we didn't have Myers the minutes would be divided up among the rest of the group. I believe Stetcher could fill a considerable amount of those minutes effectively. He actually lead our team in even strength TOI last year (with more games played) and he stepped up well. He has bad periods/games, but his overall body of work when given more responsibility is good. The main replacement option would have been elevating Stetcher in the lineup (pretty much where he is now but with a bit more special teams responsibility as well) and then bringing in a bottom pairing replacement. 

[BarnBurner]

Today in a 2-1 loss, Tryamkin 0 Pts. Even. Led the defense with 22:49 TOI. 3 Hits. 

[stawns]

2 hours ago, RetroCanuck said:

Well we almost unloaded Hamhuis but the trade fell through last minute.

 

If trade values remain as high as they are right now then Id consider trading Pearson, Tanev(or Stecher), Fantenberg, Schaller and Sutter.

No chance of any of those guys being moved if they are still in the thick of the hunt.

[xereau]

I thought that this was Tryamkin's thread?

[SilentSam]

30 minutes ago, xereau said:

I thought that this was Tryamkin's thread?

Something a bit Cryptic in this pic ,??

this was on Niks Instagram this morning..

@Stierlitz or @Hairy Kneel might have their translation app open?
I gotta hunch it’s Datsyuk wishing Nik a bright future, motivation and inspiration .  

 

[Hairy Kneel]

10 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Something a bit Cryptic in this pic ,??

this was on Niks Instagram this morning..

@Stierlitz or @Hairy Kneel might have their translation app open?
I gotta hunch it’s Datsyuk wishing Nik a bright future, motivation and inspiration .  

 

Holy crap that looks like Datsyuk's wishing Tryamkin well in his future NHL endeavors.

Pavel knows what's up.

Datsyuk skated good/better the last game I saw. Still not as dangerous as he used to be.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Hairy Kneel

[Gurn]

Without it being interpreted it could be Datsyuk saying " Don't forget to turn off the stove' or "You will never win one of these" Perhaps "Best wishes in next career as a baker"?