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Alex the Great

Kyle Pettit | C

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How many times do you think our scouts saw this guy play, probably a lot more than any of us. Oh and they saw him playing in the same games as many of the great Erie players.

Don't hate on him just because there were more traditional picks available. He might not ever wow us, but he's as good a gamble for a fourth line role as most other players, maybe more so.

Yes it sucks not getting Tyler Johnson's, and Andre Palats, but we need 4 line depth in prospects too. We can gamble on guys when we already have that.

It ultimately comes down to how you value your picks and your direction in the draft. Selecting a guy who may top out as a 4th line player or may not even be an AHL player is not something i'd aim for. A 4th line player is a replacement player at the NHL level. 4 days from today, there are a slew available for free on the market where we do not have to expend a pick and several years of resources to develop. It is simply nonsensical to me.

We do not have the Johnson's or Palat's. We should always be gambling this late in the draft to find the Johnson's and Palat's of the draft class, not 4th line depth prospects.

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When watching Erie this year as we've got a few prospects on there, Pettit did not really stand out to me on their 4th line. He is a solid forechecker, smart defensively, but really lacks a physical edge to his game and lacks offensive tools here.

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Do you think the Kings regret the fact that Nolan, Lewis, King, and Clifford only developed into bottom 6 players?

Probably not. There's something to be said for really good fourth line players. To draft and develop them in your system, and teach them exactly how you want them to play goes a long way. This strategy is much better than signing overpriced fourth liners in free agency.

The reality is, there' alot more Jordan Nolan's in the 6th and 7th round than there are Palat's or Johnson's. Trying to hit a home run with this pick every year will always end in disappointment.

Edited by DeNiro
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I think defensive players will always have a spot in the NHL weather it be depth or a 4th line guy only.

He'll likely move up in the depth chart with Brown and Fox moving on, meaning more opportunity to play with good players.

It's all part of being a younger guy on a stacked team. He likely paid his dues by proving he can be responsible defensively, now it's time to find the next level to his game.

Not to mention it never hurts to play on a team with who should be the next big star in the NHL.

Sort of like the Liberati pick, but I don't really see the offensive upside in this guy when I watched Erie games.

It's because he won't be playing behind Gaunce, Brown, and Fox, plus he'll be a year older and have the chance to be part of the Canucks prospect camp. Strome never even played for the Otters.

Dylan Strome played for the Otters.

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Do you think the Kings regret the fact that Nolan, Lewis, King, and Clifford only developed into bottom 6 players?

Probably not. There's something to be said for really good fourth line players. To draft and develop them in your system, and teach them exactly how you want them to play goes a long way. This strategy is much better than signing overpriced fourth liners in free agency.

The reality is, there' alot more Jordan Nolan's in the 6th and 7th round than there are Palat's or Johnson's. Trying to hit a home run with this pick every year will always end in disappointment.

What a hyperbole. And swing of the fences, low upside picks like Hannay always pan out and end in satisfaction, do they? Nice to know.

All of those guys put up pts in their draft season. Putting aside the eye test that i have on Pettit, and looking at stats here, each of those players outscored Pettit 3 or 4 times over.

Lewis is a 1st round pick. He scored 75 points in 56 games.

Clifford is a 2nd round pick who scored 28 points in 60 games.

King is a 4th round pick who scored 44 points in 62 games.

That's 3 guys who were taken in the top half of the draft. The only player comparable is:

Nolan who was a 7th round pick but also scored 43 points in 64 games. That is 4.3x more than Pettit.

4th line players, NHL replacement level players score at lower levels. Weise was an excellent scorer at lower levels. Even just about all defensive D men score at lower levels.

Overpriced 4th liners? They make 1.5-1.8M tops for a high level 4th liner. That's easily manageable with the cap going up each year.

Edited by DJ Kreuzberg
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It ultimately comes down to how you value your picks and your direction in the draft. Selecting a guy who may top out as a 4th line player or may not even be an AHL player is not something i'd aim for. A 4th line player is a replacement player at the NHL level. 4 days from today, there are a slew available for free on the market where we do not have to expend a pick and several years of resources to develop. It is simply nonsensical to me.

We do not have the Johnson's or Palat's. We should always be gambling this late in the draft to find the Johnson's and Palat's of the draft class, not 4th line depth prospects.

-----

When watching Erie this year as we've got a few prospects on there, Pettit did not really stand out to me on their 4th line. He is a solid forechecker, smart defensively, but really lacks a physical edge to his game and lacks offensive tools here.

I understand the theory, but if you don't have really good intel, or the person doesn't fit your team mold, then it's a non starter anyways.

I do think the best pick available was probably Axel Holmstrom, but he might have not been what Benning wanted to gamble on as a bottom 6 guy. Only 6 ft more upside, but maybe not the checking line player we wanted.

I'll add to that Mistele would have been a good pick if we were looking at a LW. He was someone I would have been okay with if we had a 4th rounder.

Edited by Derp...

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It is fine to draft a defensive specialist who can win key defensive faceoffs and kill penalties instead of taking them in later rounds. A team needs to be balanced instead of filled with players who play a similar game. Even team Canada wasn't built with the best 12 offensive forwards. After reading more about him, he may have chance to turn into a shut down center in the NHL once he learns to use his size and reach, as well as develops his skating to keep up with the faster forwards in the nhl

I'm not going to say Pettit won't be a NHL player but they were other players who had a better chance of making the NHL and a better chance of being a better NHL player than Pettit. As of right now from what I've seen, he's a defensive forward that plays the PK but he has limited offensive game. He hasn't played with stars but individually he doesn't really get much done. He's a guy you can get off waivers or sign as a FA, I would rather go with a guy with a higher chance of becoming a better player but along with a better risk.

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I don't mind this pick, by all accounts he sounds like a good character player which is something you can't measure in stats

The fact that at a young age he buys into the team first mentality and is willing to do whatever it takes to win (blocking shots even in a blow out etc) suggests that there is more to this guy than goals and assists.

Sometimes players like that are quite coachable as well since, assuming he comes to Vancouver for the prospect camp, you figure the staff (is it being run by green or desjardin?) will tell him what he needs to work on to get better overall etc.

Its not like this guy will be in the NHL next year anyways, by all accounts he will be a player that plays out his JR days & plays in Utica for a season or 2, unless he improves so much so that he warrants getting called up

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Who the fuck cares, he is a late round pick.

He probably won't even pan out.

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Nolan who was a 7th round pick but also scored 43 points in 64 games. That is 4.3x more than Pettit.

You're comparing the points of a guy in his 4th year in junior to a guy in his 2nd year. Pettit is also being looked at more for his defensive abilities and likely face offs, if he can boost his production next year as well, well maybe he might trend to be a decent player. He'll still be in juniors for a couple more years anyway so though to say how he will pan out by then with some NHL development.

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I agree with what DJ Kreuzberg was saying

At this stage in the draft, there is no safe pick, just because you take someone with lower upside doesn't mean they are in anyways safer.

Everyone is a longshot, whether your longshot potential is an offensive player, or a depth player.

I would rather swing for the fences with these picks. Cause alot of times with these picks we have taken a tough guy or defensive guy in hopes that they have a better chance of achieving something because their upside is lower . (Hannay, Williamson, Friesen, exc) and they don't end up amounting to anything either.

Even taking an overager or someone who has re-entered the draft, I would rather do that.

Pettit has some upside, he could be a 4th line guy down the road if everything goes right, like any 6th/7th rounder its doubtful, but theres atleast a chance to get something which is good, I still think there were better options (and our 7th rounder felt like more of a waste of a pick than this one) but I guess Benning thinks we might get something here, so I'll support this player & hope for the best.

And to the people who just say "who cares", that's not the attitude our organization should be taking, cause if we just throw away a pick with the thought that he will never make it, the good drafting teams will take these picks seriously and end up getting something out of these picks. Teams like Detroit & LA.

Edited by Smashian Kassian

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Even PITB says he is a not good pick.

All the NHL defensive forwards today did put up some points as junior.

We'll see I guess.

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What a hyperbole. And swing of the fences, low upside picks like Hannay always pan out and end in satisfaction, do they? Nice to know.

All of those guys put up pts in their draft season. Putting aside the eye test that i have on Pettit, and looking at stats here, each of those players outscored Pettit 3 or 4 times over.

Lewis is a 1st round pick. He scored 75 points in 56 games.

Clifford is a 2nd round pick who scored 28 points in 60 games.

King is a 4th round pick who scored 44 points in 62 games.

That's 3 guys who were taken in the top half of the draft. The only player comparable is:

Nolan who was a 7th round pick but also scored 43 points in 64 games. That is 4.3x more than Pettit.

4th line players, NHL replacement level players score at lower levels. Weise was an excellent scorer at lower levels. Even just about all defensive D men score at lower levels.

Overpriced 4th liners? They make 1.5-1.8M tops for a high level 4th liner. That's easily manageable with the cap going up each year.

This is exactly right. There's nothing wrong with your 6th and 7th rounders turning into bottom 6 players. In fact, it's great! The problem is that no-offense, 4th line CHL players NEVER get to the NHL. Virtually all bottom 6 players in the NHL at least displayed some offensive upside in the CHL. You need a basic level of puck skills to succeed in the NHL, even as a 4th liner, and guys like Petit just don't have it.

And people saying "who cares, it's a 6th round pick" are totally missing the point. We turned an asset with a ~5% chance of success into an asset with ~0.1%. That's terrible asset management.

Look at how Dean Lombardi and the Kings draft. They're the best organization in the league, and they use their late picks on upside players, not big bodies who can't score. It's not a difficult concept, and it's just baffling that the Canucks can't figure it out.

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This is exactly right. There's nothing wrong with your 6th and 7th rounders turning into bottom 6 players. In fact, it's great! The problem is that no-offense, 4th line CHL players NEVER get to the NHL. Virtually all bottom 6 players in the NHL at least displayed some offensive upside in the CHL. You need a basic level of puck skills to succeed in the NHL, even as a 4th liner, and guys like Petit just don't have it.

Paul Gaustad had 14 points the season before he was drafted.

Pettit's numbers will most certainly go up.

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Based on the limited amount of opportunity he had in Erie this year because it was a stacked team with Gaunce, McDavid, Brown, Fox, Burakowsky, Curtis, its hard to move up with such good quality players.

With a good chunk of them graduating, Pettit will be given more chances to improve and develop. Im liking this pick because he is already defensively responsible who blocks shots, good on the draws, and has a monster of a frame at 6'4''. He already has the framework to be a solid pro...he may not be heralded at all but not every pick will be in the spotlight of glamour.

This is a player you need on a team to do all the little things well quietly.

At first I was a lil weary of the pick but after time of thinking about it, Im quite excited for this pick actually.

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Paul Gaustad had 14 points the season before he was drafted.

Pettit's numbers will most certainly go up.

Yes, he did. He was also drafted as a fighter, which Pettit isn't. (Not that drafting fighters is a good idea either.)

If Pettit scores more than a point per game in his draft +2 year, then yes, he will have a chance to be a 4th liner. Unfortunately, Paul Gaustad is very much the exception. Virtually every bottom 6 player in the league was either a semi-effective offensive player in the CHL or a face-puncher. Gaustad is just about the only player who went from fighter to defensive specialist.

The vast majority of bottom 6 players were at least half decent scorers in junior. The strategy of drafting CHL defensive specialists who can't score and turning them into NHL players has only worked a handful of times. Meanwhile, using late picks on moderately skilled CHLers has produced dozens of good bottom 6 players.

Basically, it's the difference between choosing a 1 in 100 lottery ticket, and a 1 in 1000 ticket. Sadly, we chose the latter.

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my take on nucks taking Pettit over some of the other guys mentioned in previous posts is that Benning said himself that with the later picks he went after guys that had specific or specialized attributes, I take that to mean something like size in a particular role we have lots of centers but only Lain as a possible 4rth line center that is BIG. Labate is 6'4 but he is more geared to be 3rd line center or if he reaches his optimum 2-3 line tweener..So they got another guy specifically for that big 4rth line center role. As for Mackenzie Stewart in the 7th round same thing- how many 6'4+ D-men do we have in the prospect pool- none before today. now we have 2, along with Tryamkin.

We already have guys in our system that were drafted to be like a Mistele or a Jacob Middleton, or a brayden Point, etc. of prior drafts

Edited by hd71

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It ultimately comes down to how you value your picks and your direction in the draft. Selecting a guy who may top out as a 4th line player or may not even be an AHL player is not something i'd aim for. A 4th line player is a replacement player at the NHL level. 4 days from today, there are a slew available for free on the market where we do not have to expend a pick and several years of resources to develop. It is simply nonsensical to me.

We do not have the Johnson's or Palat's. We should always be gambling this late in the draft to find the Johnson's and Palat's of the draft class, not 4th line depth prospects.

-----

When watching Erie this year as we've got a few prospects on there, Pettit did not really stand out to me on their 4th line. He is a solid forechecker, smart defensively, but really lacks a physical edge to his game and lacks offensive tools here.

I humbly disagree. A good 4th liner with size, reach, discipline, win FO, and can PK is difficult to get. Since Malhotra gone, we have yet to find a replacement for him. With the core gone, Pettit will see bigger roles and possibly develop the other areas of his game. We have enough prospect that are suppose to develop into top 6, it is good to have a GM who knows your team need other role players to be successful.

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What a hyperbole. And swing of the fences, low upside picks like Hannay always pan out and end in satisfaction, do they? Nice to know.

All of those guys put up pts in their draft season. Putting aside the eye test that i have on Pettit, and looking at stats here, each of those players outscored Pettit 3 or 4 times over.

Lewis is a 1st round pick. He scored 75 points in 56 games.

Clifford is a 2nd round pick who scored 28 points in 60 games.

King is a 4th round pick who scored 44 points in 62 games.

That's 3 guys who were taken in the top half of the draft. The only player comparable is:

Nolan who was a 7th round pick but also scored 43 points in 64 games. That is 4.3x more than Pettit.

4th line players, NHL replacement level players score at lower levels. Weise was an excellent scorer at lower levels. Even just about all defensive D men score at lower levels.

Overpriced 4th liners? They make 1.5-1.8M tops for a high level 4th liner. That's easily manageable with the cap going up each year.

Kyle Petit is NOT a bad pick.

You mentioned Nolan when he was drafted but he was already an overager by 2 years. He scored 27 points the year he was eligible to be drafted. This is obviously still more than Petit but Nolan was also -20 in his draft eligible year while Petit was a plus 3 while only scoring 10 points. What does that tell you about how effective a player Petit is at preventing goals? Furthermore, in his 3 seasons with the Kings, Nolan has only contributed 6 goals 4 assists as career highs. Do you guys really think that those points will really matter 'that' much in a full NHL season if Petit scores only half that amount because he's 'not as skilled'? Furthermore, like someone has already said, he will increase his point totals next year due to graduation of many of the Otters top players. Thankfully, if he does play in the NHL, it will not be because of his point production but how effective he is at preventing goals. If Petit can play a gritty role on the team while preventing goals then he has served his purpose as a fourth line player. Any points from there on are just icing on the cake.

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I humbly disagree. A good 4th liner with size, reach, discipline, win FO, and can PK is difficult to get. Since Malhotra gone, we have yet to find a replacement for him. With the core gone, Pettit will see bigger roles and possibly develop the other areas of his game. We have enough prospect that are suppose to develop into top 6, it is good to have a GM who knows your team need other role players to be successful.

I disagree. And Malhotra was our 3C, not 4C.

4th line players are replacement players at every level. Much easier to get than a top 6 player; cheaper through transactions and through FA.

It is absolutely baffling to see someone say "We have enough prospects that are supposed to develop into top 6". You can never have enough of these players. And we certainly do not have enough prospects with top 6 upside. Not all of the guys we have will reach their potential and become NHL players, in fact the majority will not be regular NHL players.

The core gone, maybe, but he's still behind some great centermen. Pettit is still behind McDavid and Strome. He's likely moving up from 4C to 3C. That's not a major role change.

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