Jack Fig Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 What did they cost? Nothing. For how long? 2-3 years. What's the alternative -- keep the roster the same as last year, having Jensen with the twins and 41-game Lack shelled in goal like the last half of the season?2-3 years, guys. In that time (or less) all these promising prospects are going to be coming in, and into a positive competitive team and atmosphere. We're way ahead of the Edmontons and Calgarys already, and we're only a few weeks in!It's money spent that doesn't represent future. Not even any guarantee it represents the 'positive competitive team' you're hoping for. They're just a couple of vets who've been around the block and found a place to cash in. I'll admit they're not the worst signings in the world, but unless the team finds a way to get a lot of reps out of some younger guys, this season has the look of something caught in a holding pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 We aren't rebuilding, if we were we would see more than just Kesler and Garrison gone and we wouldn't of signed Miller and Vrbata. Do you guys honestly think our young players will develop properly in a losing environment? We are drafting well and have had 6 1st round picks in the past 4 years with two of them in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadOgre Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Swift4grizz you are bang on so I 1+ you on all of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruthHurts Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Good. Now the people who want to see tank can shut up. Or just ignore them. Or just don't care. Or no one cares. Or find something better to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Nah. Gillis liked to give away good goaltenders and never signed actual proven sniper top six players. He liked him some reclamation projects.The idea of Kesler/Garrison out and Miller/Vrbata in seems like a wash for a team very unlikely to make it past the 1st round. The gain for me is that Benning spun two young assets like Vey and McCann out of his dealings. If Bonino can anchor a second line (debatable but possible) then we're getting somewhere. But the Miller/Vrbata singings as they stand on their own? Uninspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I'd just like to say that since Benning and Linden are opting to rebuild on the fly, I'll respect that and trust that that is the better way to go. However, there can be several arguments to be made in favour of tanking. Yes, I understand that it is not an option for our particular team, but it isn't as stupid as people make it out to be. The 2015 draft is regarded as a very strong draft. Meaning the top end talent is great. The top 5 features players that have a very strong possibility of being franchise players. There are some very strong talent to be had, and the talent seems to be stronger than what we've seen in previous years. Sure, we might have somebody in our system that could exceed expectations and become a franchise player, but should we really be banking on that? Surely, we can find the 1c or 1d we're lacking for the future. Yes, there is the risk of busting that comes with all prospects. However, we seem to have to right pieces to surround whoever is drafted. We have great young guys like Horvat, McCann, Shinkaruk, Virtanen, Jensen, Kassian, Hutton, Demko and Tanev to fill various rolls. We also have veteran mentors like the Sedins, Higgins, Richardson, Burrows, Bieksa, Hamhuis and Miller. With Benning's drafting pedigree, it's not wrong to assume that he can pick the right guy who can do well, being surrounded by a great group of guys and a solid coaching staff. As for losing fans; we have people filling into the seats that the previous STH's have abandoned, Even if not all of the voids are filled, we can reap the rewards for years to come. At the sound of Mcdavid/Barzal/Eichel/Hanifin, "fans" will jump back on the bandwagon faster than a politician's promise on election day. On top of that, merchandise involving those names will be banging out. Besides, the Aquilinis can probably survive the next year without raking in mountains of cash. It seems like people put so much emphasis on the losing culture/environment. Players like Bergeron, Keith, Seabrook, Kopitar, Brown, Malkin, have endured years of humility and have hit rock bottom, while maintaining steady development while their teams accumulated assets and added key players through the draft. Meanwhile, a lot of the guys that will be in our lineup are veterans, and we won't have tons of youth in there. This is just my opinion though so don't flame me too hard. Just to make this clear, I'm not prancing around screaming for tanking, I'm just trying to show both sides of the argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Soldier Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Like I said, our defense prospects don't have any real standouts. Like the Oil's early rebuild. We have assets like Kesler, sure, but if wer squander them for guys like Bonino and Sbisa, who cares? What, pray tell, would you have landed for Kesler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 It's money spent that doesn't represent future. Not even any guarantee it represents the 'positive competitive team' you're hoping for. They're just a couple of vets who've been around the block and found a place to cash in. I'll admit they're not the worst signings in the world, but unless the team finds a way to get a lot of reps out of some younger guys, this season has the look of something caught in a holding pattern. Okay, but what's the alternative? It's the young guys that get paid next to nothing and the older ones that cash in. Every team needs to have a mix, because nobody can have a team loaded up with Malkins, Kanes, and Sedins. The money was there, and they spent it short-term in order to help the team be stable, competitive, and create a good culture for the kids to grow into. Spending money isn't the issue, as long as it's controlled properly (term, cap, etc.) -- the money's all there already. The two holes were best filled by these guys, not the kids yet in Benning's estimation. And remember, it's very short-term. Clearly Benning expects the young guys to be coming in full-force within 2-3 years or else he would have locked them up longer. You could say this is a holding pattern season, but maybe think of it more as a transition? We've got younger and deeper from the trades, are bringing in a developed rookie in Vey, and there still may be room for a Horvat or Gaunce if they can take a job this year. It's going to take a few years, but Benning's moved faster than I expected. The idea of Kesler/Garrison out and Miller/Vrbata in seems like a wash for a team very unlikely to make it past the 1st round. The gain for me is that Benning spun two young assets like Vey and McCann out of his dealings. If Bonino can anchor a second line (debatable but possible) then we're getting somewhere. But the Miller/Vrbata singings as they stand on their own? Uninspiring. Yup, trading for younger assets is the plan, same as Kesler went for younger guys, and not simply picks and prospects but actual roster players, too. And remember -- the Miller/Vrbata signings do not stand on their own, they're all part of the overall plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Okay, but what's the alternative? It's the young guys that get paid next to nothing and the older ones that cash in. Every team needs to have a mix, because nobody can have a team loaded up with Malkins, Kanes, and Sedins. The money was there, and they spent it short-term in order to help the team be stable, competitive, and create a good culture for the kids to grow into. Spending money isn't the issue, as long as it's controlled properly (term, cap, etc.) -- the money's all there already. The two holes were best filled by these guys, not the kids yet in Benning's estimation. And remember, it's very short-term. Clearly Benning expects the young guys to be coming in full-force within 2-3 years or else he would have locked them up longer. You could say this is a holding pattern season, but maybe think of it more as a transition? We've got younger and deeper from the trades, are bringing in a developed rookie in Vey, and there still may be room for a Horvat or Gaunce if they can take a job this year. It's going to take a few years, but Benning's moved faster than I expected. Yup, trading for younger assets is the plan, same as Kesler went for younger guys, and not simply picks and prospects but actual roster players, too. And remember -- the Miller/Vrbata signings do not stand on their own, they're all part of the overall plan. Man, the bases were loaded up and you just hit the grand slam. You are definitely on a roll with your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Vs Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I haven't even read the rest of the topic yet, but had to sign in and say that gif on the first page of the two chicks on the bike with the gun ranks up there on CDC with Obama kicking the door down. (if anyone has that one feel free to post cause even my wife loved it.) Ok...back to page one to read the topic, and to get some paper towel to clean up the beer I just spit out everywhere cause that was friggin hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Been watching what Hutton's been doing? How Cederholm progressed in just one year? Who's to say they don't trade for what they need from the "sooooo many centers"? "Squander for Bonino and Sbisa" -- I notice you missed exactly what I alluded to: McCann. Not to mention that Bonino could well match Kesler's output again and will almost certainly have a longer career (not to mention play like a real center), and at least Sbisa may hit once in a while compared to Garrison. We got younger and deeper -- isn't that what a rebuild/retool is about? Did you actually just want a bunch of picks and raw prospects that are years away for Kesler? Who predicted that Datsyuk would be a franchise player after his draft? How about Giroux? What about Weber? Maybe Subban? Getzlaf/Perry? It's nothing more than a moniker, but take a look at who they are drafting and trading for -- players with grit, speed, leadership, and CHARACTER. Who knows who the franchise player could be, could be none out of this group, could be several! The whole thing about the "R-word" is a distraction, primarily because it has the connotation of blowing a team up and starting over, and the corollary of reloading by changing a few pieces. I expected one of those two as well, until I saw what Benning did at the draft. It's not just throwing a stick of dynamite in the dressing room and having kids come in to clean up. There is a definite plan here, and the genius of it is that we don't have to blow it all up while it progresses So where's our franchise player then please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Look, I'm in favour of doing what's best for this team long-term. Given where this team is at with respect to our aging core, the idea of bring in the kids to develop under their leadership is an excellent idea. But I still can't see why we couldn't have gone with our existing goalie tandem, or a least get a veteran back up for lack, then let the chips fall where they may. If they happened to fall on a very high pick in one of the deepest drafts in years, then you're still accomplishing what's best for the team, without technically going into a full-on rebuild. You'd stock the team with another 5 or 6 excellent prospects and still go out and get a veteran goalie after next season. As it stands now, if everything goes our way, we'll either sneak into the final playoff spot and suffer another quick first round exit, or we'll just miss a playoff spot. And for what? Both scenarios will end up costing us a top 10 pick that in the 2015 draft could end up being a franchise cornerstone for the next 10 years. Exactly what I've been saying since the Miller signing, but the cheerleaders are so enamoured of the new regime, they ignore the logic and throw straw at the idea, pointing to the Oilers situation, or just outright referring to it as "tanking" It is not. It's called building through the draft and the Oilers are a poor example, because they've stuck religiously to drafting the BPA instead of organizational needs. Meanwhile, teams like Chicago and Pittsburgh managed just fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 So where's our franchise player then please? Another ridiculous statement. With your logic I am guessing these teams drafted these players knowing that they would become franchise players for them... Jamie Benn 129th overall Shea Weber 49th overall Claude Giroux 22nd overall Erik Karlsson 15th overall Corey Perry 28th overall Ryan Getzlaf 19th overall Duncan Keith 54th overall P.K. Subban 43rd overall Point is not all franchise players are found top 5. Also you can't really tell that they are franchise players 1-2 years after they were drafted... They have to develop into one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Ya I see all those names. Wondering which one of our guys is going to pan out like that according to you guys. I'm excited about Virtanen, but he's very raw at this point. Does anyone else pop up as franchise? Nope. So again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Vs Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 After reading the three pages, all I can say, and I've said it in other threads...I trust Benning. He came in, had a look at the situation, (I'm guessing) evaluated ALL players in the system from the Sedin's on down, had some targets from his days in Boston, and executed. Like TL said when he hired Benning, they have a type of team they want, and now GMJB is pulling the trigger. Some moves may not be pretty, but necessary. I also trust his drafting. (how much talk has Tryamkin received?) I probably spelled his name wrong, but a wow. What a pick. I'm 41, and worked in many positive and negative work environments. It's better to work in a positive environment than a negative one. Build on the positive for the ultimate goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 The Summer Summit should be renamed to A Night With Trevor Linden, man that guy likes the spotlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Ya I see all those names. Wondering which one of our guys is going to pan out like that according to you guys. I'm excited about Virtanen, but he's very raw at this point. Does anyone else pop up as franchise? Nope. So again... How is anyone appose to pop up as a franchise player when none of them have played an NHL game? You don't know until they hit the NHL and until you see how they develop in the NHL. I am sorry to be rude but your facts haven't been great and the same goes with your logic with this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 How is anyone appose to pop up as a franchise player when none of them have played an NHL game? You don't know until they hit the NHL and until you see how they develop in the NHL. I am sorry to be rude but your facts haven't been great and the same goes with your logic with this topic. Franchise-level players are known about before they play a game in the NHL. There is none in this organization at this point, hence the lack of an answer for my question imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Ya I see all those names. Wondering which one of our guys is going to pan out like that according to you guys. But that's just it -- if we knew, then all the GMs would know, and they would have been drafted top-5 at the time. Sometimes you get a Crosby or Doughty that pretty much steps right in and lives up to his billing, other times it takes a while and a late-rounder blossoms. They're still kids! Franchise-level players are known about before they play a game in the NHL. Then why were all those guys listed above rated and drafted in later rounds? If it were all so cut-and-dry and obvious, there'd be no first-round busts from on-board picks and a linear sliding scale downwards. Indeed, could just have a computer assign the picks to the teams since everything were certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Franchise-level players are known about before they play a game in the NHL. There is none in this organization at this point, hence the lack of an answer for my question imho. How do you explain the late round players that develop into franchise players then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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