Canucks1219 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Arbitration doesn't take the two offers though and settles 'somewhere in the middle.' Arbitration places the value on how much it is believed that the athlete is worth, offers notwithstanding. Otherwise, teams would offer ridiculously low offers in the hopes of getting a steal of a price. For this reason, I do think that Montreal's offer was ridiculously low and possibly insulting. The fact that they've taken this long and haven't even come to a deal means that they're not 'throwing higher numbers' at his agent. These cheap francophones actually think he's not worth that much. They simply don't deserve him. P.K. Subban doesn't make it sound that way. "In respect to this negotiation, it's been completely respectful on both sides," Subban told TSN Radio 690 on Thursday. "There's mutual respect from both sides in this. It's been great - I'm happy with the communication...both sides are working hard to get things done and when it gets done, we're looking for it to be best for the Canadiens and myself." "When it comes to negotiation, I let my agent take care of that," Subban said. "Obviously, I've been adamant, and I've repeated it many times - about how I feel about the province, the team and the organization. It's all been consistent. So there's no reason for anybody to think that has changed. "But in terms of a negotiation, this is business now. This is not just about P.K. as a hockey player. This is business between what's best for P.K. and what's best for the organization. And it's been mutual respect on both sides." Source: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=458416 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustapha Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Arbitration doesn't take the two offers though and settles 'somewhere in the middle.' Arbitration places the value on how much it is believed that the athlete is worth, offers notwithstanding. Otherwise, teams would offer ridiculously low offers in the hopes of getting a steal of a price. For this reason, I do think that Montreal's offer was ridiculously low and possibly insulting. The fact that they've taken this long and haven't even come to a deal means that they're not 'throwing higher numbers' at his agent. These cheap francophones actually think he's not worth that much. They simply don't deserve him. If Subban is awarded 8.5 million that would be too high. If PK was really a team guy, he would lower the yearly salary in favour of term. That way he is guaranteed a hefty payday AND security playing for the team in the city he claims to love so much. I highly doubt the Habs haven't offered him a multi-year deal for at least 7 million dollars. Subban and his agent obviously want top dollar. Seriously, is 7 to 7.5 million per year over 7 years too low for Mr. Subban? I know Kane and Toews have shiny new contracts, but Subban isn't quite at their level despite what Habs fans would like to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustapha Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 P.K. Subban doesn't make it sound that way. Source: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=458416 To be fair, it would be suicide for PK to say anything derogatory towards the team or the city, regardless of how things are actually proceeding behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 P.K. Subban doesn't make it sound that way. Source: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=458416 If you think he was gonna come out and say otherwise to the general public, you're being naive. There's always something happening behind closed doors and us mere spectators can't pretend to know the full story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I have no doubts that this is going to arbitration and that Subban will win. Not likely, winning would mean getting his proposed offer of 1 year 8.5M. Arbitration cases are almost always settled somewhere in the middle. So its either going to be 7M or 7.5M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neversummer Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Not likely, winning would mean getting his proposed offer of 1 year 8.5M. Arbitration cases are almost always settled somewhere in the middle. So its either going to be 7M or 7.5M. And if Subban wins, Montreal cannot trade him and he will be UFA after one year so Montreal loses big time. I think 7-7.5m for the next 3 years is about right but after that, everything escalates, cap will go up, and the going rate might be like 8.5m or 9m. So something like 7, 7.5, 7.5, 8, 8, 8.5 for 6 years might be about right = $46.5m for 6 years. Lebron only signed for one cuz he knows cap will go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I don't know man, Harvey is pretty cocky.. Have you even seen the show ? It would appear you don't know much about anything. Question, did you just jam the keyboard for that fantastic handle ? Or do you still ride on "Dubs" ?My handle was my nickname in grade 7. Using that is a lot more original than pretending I'm Ari gold, or Harvey Spector... And yes, I have seen both shows. Harvey is cocky but I was referencing the picture you have of him vs the annoying one of Ari gold you used to use which went very well with your equally annoying threads and posts. Suits was funny but unrealistic and while it was entertaining I grew bored of it after two seasons. I know what arbitration is. I know that the 5.25 isn't a formal offer. That doesn't change the fact that mtl is telling pk that's what they think he's worth. Of course it's a low ball. Of course you start low in negotiations. IMO, it's too much of a low ball estimate. If the situation makes it to arbitration mtl is going to have to argue their case as to why they think their stud, Norris winning franchise player who (along with price) took them to the conference finals, is only worth 5.25. They will argue this in front of him to his face. It can get ugly. It can be awkward. It's something some GMs try to avoid altogether. Nashville tried the same thing with Weber and he luckily got to cash out on an offer sheet the next year. They will compare Karlssons very modest extension and argue Karlsson is better than PK and should therefore make more money. They will say his defensive game isn't all there and he wasn't used in key situations earlier in the year because the coach didn't trust him. I don't resent Montreal for trying to get the best deal possible for their club, but if I was MB I think i would take a different approach. Having said this, I don't know what's been said in their negotiations, I don't know how close they are, how many teams reached out to PK regarding an offer sheet. It's impossible to know this. I can only speculate and make educated guesses. Pk tried holding out last time and compromised in the end for the good of the team. He did all they asked and more. The fact they haven't reached an agreement yet tells me Montreal fully doesn't appreciate him. Montreal gambled on the bridge contact and PK exceeded their expectations. I don't know how my opinion can be factually wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 And if Subban wins, Montreal cannot trade him and he will be UFA after one year so Montreal loses big time. I think 7-7.5m for the next 3 years is about right but after that, everything escalates, cap will go up, and the going rate might be like 8.5m or 9m. So something like 7, 7.5, 7.5, 8, 8, 8.5 for 6 years might be about right = $46.5m for 6 years. Lebron only signed for one cuz he knows cap will go up. Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 And if Subban wins, Montreal cannot trade him and he will be UFA after one year so Montreal loses big time. I think 7-7.5m for the next 3 years is about right but after that, everything escalates, cap will go up, and the going rate might be like 8.5m or 9m. So something like 7, 7.5, 7.5, 8, 8, 8.5 for 6 years might be about right = $46.5m for 6 years. Lebron only signed for one cuz he knows cap will go up. Actually, he will still be RFA, not UFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 ... I know what arbitration is. I know that the 5.25 isn't a formal offer. That doesn't change the fact that mtl is telling pk that's what they think he's worth. ... I don't know how my opinion can be factually wrong. You keep saying that, yet you keep following that up by saying the third sentence as well. Montreal isn't telling PK that's what they think he's worth, just like PK isn't telling Montreal he thinks he's worth $8.5M ($640K more in cap hit that the currently highest paid defenceman, Shea Weber). Both numbers are a stretch from each end of the spectrum and not the true value. That's what we keep saying, and that's what you keep missing. I'll agree it's another thing altogether to argue that they've gone too low in their arbitration amount, but when you keep stating that's what Montreal thinks he's actually worth you've gone off the deep end and won't get any support. But that's an opinion, not fact, and you're already wrong on the one statement while the other is debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks35 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Watch them settle at around 7.25 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 You keep saying that, yet you keep following that up by saying the final sentence as well. Montreal isn't telling PK that's what they think he's worth, just like PK isn't telling Montreal he thinks he's worth $8.5M ($640K more in cap hit that the currently highest paid defenceman, Shea Weber). Both numbers are a stretch from each end of the spectrum and not the true value. That's what we keep saying, and that's what you keep missing. I'll agree it's another thing altogether to argue that they've gone too low in their arbitration amount, but when you keep stating that's what Montreal thinks he's actually worse you've gone off the deep end and won't get any support. But that's an opinion, not fact, and you're already wrong on the one statement while the other is debatable. They're telling the arbitrator that's what they think he's worth, and they're making their argument right to his face. It isn't too far a leap to say theyre directly telling him what he's worth. Where the cap is right now there's no way in my mind PK isn't an 8-9 million dollar cap hit long term. Montreal can file whatever number they want but if they miss hard they run the risk of damaging their reputation with him. In my knowledge you want to maintain a good relationship with your cornerstone players. Look what happened with Lu. After a certain amount of organizational BS players get fed up and want out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerbera Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I don't think people are saying low balling in arbitration is wrong. But low balling to a point where it is wtf is pretty bad. I mean, why don't Montreal just say 3 mil? I mean... is never going to be that number anyway.....right? 5.25 just seems soooo off, i mean i bet most people will be ok with if Montreal set it at 6mil.... I mean he is not going to sign at 6... but still looks better than this 5.25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insomniac604 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Honestly, Subban should be able to name his price. He is both their best D and F. He is the face of the team and loves it there.If he wants 8.5, give it to him for 8 years. He is worth that much right now. The next 8 will include the peak of his career.With the cap going up, in 2-3 years he will be worth 10+. Montreal should be so lucky he isn't asking that today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I don't watch many Habs games (only national broadcasts) but I get the feeling his defensive "deficiencies" are way overblown. I dunno. Hard to work defense when you're bringing the puck over the opposition blue line so often. For ever goal he helps contribute, he is also part of the reason they get scored on. He was a minus player last year and was top 10 or something in turnovers. I still want to know why they aren't offering him term? Someone responded to me but told me something I already knew. Yes the offers are for arbitration purposes, but why can't they reach a deal? He's worth at least 7 mil. Are they close to the cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefcakeBo Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 For ever goal he helps contribute, he is also part of the reason they get scored on. He was a minus player last year and was top 10 or something in turnovers. I still want to know why they aren't offering him term? Someone responded to me but told me something I already knew. Yes the offers are for arbitration purposes, but why can't they reach a deal? He's worth at least 7 mil. Are they close to the cap? The whole argument that he is a defensive liability is weak. His advanced stats all put him at par or better than than Keith, Doughty, Bowmeester, Peitrangelo, Webber, Hamhuis, Karlsson ect. The guy is an elite offensive defenceman that is defensively better than everyone on the blue line of 20+ of the teams in the league. If this makes it to arbitration I won't be at all surprised if he gets more than Webber did a couple years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neversummer Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 So ... are they actually going through with this? Arbitrator suppose to give ruling within 48hrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyville88 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Subban should be insulted by that Habs' offer. Norris winner, Gold medal winner, and just hitting his prime. A guy like Hamhuis is past his prime and will never win a Norris and he's making $5 mill. It's inexcusable that Subban should make anything in that ballpark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Subban should be insulted by that Habs' offer. Norris winner, Gold medal winner, and just hitting his prime. A guy like Hamhuis is past his prime and will never win a Norris and he's making $5 mill. It's inexcusable that Subban should make anything in that ballpark[/quot Dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Subban should be insulted by that Habs' offer. Norris winner, Gold medal winner, and just hitting his prime. A guy like Hamhuis is past his prime and will never win a Norris and he's making $5 mill. It's inexcusable that Subban should make anything in that ballpark No Subban should not be insulted his agent would have explained how arbitration works. A lot of us in this thread are trying to explain it but it seems worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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