Provost Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Yup, it's the 3rd member of the line who goes to the net or open ice awaiting the puck. Whether Carter, Burrows, or Kesler, it's the Sedins that do the majority of the spade work. Really I have no idea why more people don't see this. They should watch a game this coming season just looking at puck battles involving the Sedins. They aren't super fast and shifty enough to avoid getting held along the boards by defenders. They aren't fast enough to blow by guys and make them look like pylons. They are super gritty guys who go into the corners and using elbows, feet, hands, knees, whatever... end up kicking the puck back out to a teammate. They can make defenders look stupid because teams are trying to double cover each Sedin to win puck battles, and end up leaving lots of open ice for passing. They win virtually every one on one puck battle and more often than not win when having two guys draped all over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diakonos Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Agreed. If the Sedins return to how good they were 3-4 yrs ago, then Vrbata will be the main benefactor. Torts said they were tough as nails and they responded. At least early last year before they were signed to new deals. Among league leaders in scoring with Kesler. If they keep that up there's no reason why that top Sedin-Sedin-Vrbata line won't be the best in the NHL. WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO TOML On another note, this is also an interesting read by the same poster on what kind of corsi% we might expect out of an average, good, or elite player relative to his position: http://deathtaxesandjagr.blogspot.ca/2014/07/setting-league-wide-standard-for-corsi.html?m=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rypien37 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 The underlying numbers and potential for that line to have great success is clear. However, being successful against the likes of the Kings and Ducks is another story. I don't see this line panning out come play off time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I'm more concerned about what Burrows will do without the Sedins. He's never really found his niche with anyone else 5 on 5. Burrows was fairly effective with Kesler at times...maybe he would waive his NTC to go and play with Kesler in Anaheim. Ducks need a vet to complement all the youth that is going to make up their roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 2014-15 hockey poolers guide magazine predicts Henrik to get 72 points Daniel to get 70 Vrbata to get 54 points 27 goals and I think that's a pretty good prediction then again i'm not sure how accurate the magazine is known to be to so take what you will from it lol Why is there such a big point difference? Vrbata will probably be on the powerplay and 5on5 with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Good read. Thanks for posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Really I have no idea why more people don't see this. They should watch a game this coming season just looking at puck battles involving the Sedins. They aren't super fast and shifty enough to avoid getting held along the boards by defenders. They aren't fast enough to blow by guys and make them look like pylons. They are super gritty guys who go into the corners and using elbows, feet, hands, knees, whatever... end up kicking the puck back out to a teammate. They can make defenders look stupid because teams are trying to double cover each Sedin to win puck battles, and end up leaving lots of open ice for passing. They win virtually every one on one puck battle and more often than not win when having two guys draped all over them. The Sedins are good along the wall and win as many battles as they lose, but lets not carried away with all the Sedins are gritty talk. That's the stuff Tortorella tried to convince everyone of, and yes, I've seen the Sedins play live on many occasions (nearly 250 home games in the past seven seasons). Over the past three seasons, opposing teams have figured out that letting the Sedins cycle with the puck along the wall is a fairly effective way of defending against them because they know that the Sedins will seldom bring the puck off the boards and go the net with it themselves. Burrows when playing with the Sedins became ineffective because he would either join them on the cycle, or when he tried to find positioning in the slot, he would get pounded without getting a call to go his way. The way the opposing players have evolved their d-zone coverage of the Sedins allows the Sedins to be masterful puck possessors along the perimeter. The Sedins depend on the other three players they are playing with to find open ice in the o-zone, and that obviously has not been happening with regularity over the past two seasons (especially on the power play). Shut down their passing lanes and you've essentially shut down the Sedins. With Vrbata seemingly capable of moving in and out of the scoring lanes and establishing position around the net, maybe all the cycling the Sedins do with the puck will end up in a scoring chance or a few (sort of like when Samuelsson played with them at times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Nice read ! Thanks for the post :D Radim can obviously handle the physical aspects of the game but what I really want to see is GOALS ! We need goals more than anything else. If he can become a main ingredient and pick up on the Sedinery that will be flying his way on a nightly basis, then we may actually have a real first line for the first time in years. I predict 22-25 goals for Rad if he earns his spot on the first. Lets not kid ourselves here. There is going to be a battle for almost every position except goal, the open spot on the first line and maybe the first D pairing. I am more so hoping for Mathias and Kassian to really step it up to take some stress off the twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMJB Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Do you mean difference in the Sedins production compared to Vrbata or the Sedins compared to last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 2 points. No, not my prediction for Vrbata.... 1.) Vrbata will not be able to provide the Sedins with enough grit to battle top defenders in the West without a gritty and dangerous second line assuming some of the D's attention. That is not to say he won't match his historical average, I just question that he will be eclipsing 30 goals, something he has only done once. 2.) Vrbata's best seasons have come with puck moving Dmen accumulating good assist totals. He had Jovo and Yandle. Who is going to feed him the puck here? I would be cautious to predict 30 goals, I see him getting similar numbers to last season, 20G, 30A, 50 points. Nothing wrong with that. He's already been battling top defenders in the West, since he's played in Phoenix. He scores most of his goals off of good positioning in the O-zone. He isn't needing a dman who can feed him pucks through the neutral zone. Its not his style of play to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Vrbata has a very high "Hockey IQ" .. equal to the Twins .. this could be a very good season for all 3 of them .. I see a different Danny in those 'promo' competitions .. he seems a more relaxed, confident man .. maybe the cobwebs finally cleared .. our powerplay could be deadly as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Vrbata has a very high "Hockey IQ" .. equal to the Twins .. this could be a very good season for all 3 of them .. I see a different Danny in those 'promo' competitions .. he seems a more relaxed, confident man .. maybe the cobwebs finally cleared .. our powerplay could be deadly as well. I agree that Danny will be the key. If he had scored on his prior 6 year shooting % he would have had 30+ goals and we wouldn't be talking in the same way. He needs to go from 7.4% to near 15%. If that happens then Vrbata should be good for 30+ goals as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diakonos Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I agree that Danny will be the key. If he had scored on his prior 6 year shooting % he would have had 30+ goals and we wouldn't be talking in the same way. He needs to go from 7.4% to near 15%. If that happens then Vrbata should be good for 30+ goals as well. 15%? Geez, that seems awfully unsustainable. The average of the past 6 years not including 2013-14 is (8.7+13.1+15.4+12.9+10.9+11.7)/6 = 12.12%, by my calculation. And even that is quite high, and is probably only that high because of the tap-ins and tic-tac-toe plays he used to make with Henrik (esp. on the powerplay). Unless they can get those types of high-percentage plays going, it'd be more reasonable to expect a 9-10% or just under that. Btw, had he scored 12.12% of his 224 shots he would have had 27 goals this year. Still, 224 is the lowest number of shots generated by him (besides the shortened lockout season) since 2005-6. So clearly there needs to be more playmaking, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 He's already been battling top defenders in the West, since he's played in Phoenix. He scores most of his goals off of good positioning in the O-zone. He isn't needing a dman who can feed him pucks through the neutral zone. Its not his style of play to begin with. I`m not saying he can`t handle top defenders, I`m saying with the Sedins there is little grit and they may get manhandled. It`s a legit possibility. He did absolutely did benefit from puck moving Dmen, especially when Phoenix played the trap. Not from breaking him out. I have watched many of his goals myself. Agreed he scores with good positioning, but I doubt 30 plus goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I agree that Danny will be the key. If he had scored on his prior 6 year shooting % he would have had 30+ goals and we wouldn't be talking in the same way. He needs to go from 7.4% to near 15%. wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The Sedins are good along the wall and win as many battles as they lose, but lets not carried away with all the Sedins are gritty talk. That's the stuff Tortorella tried to convince everyone of, and yes, I've seen the Sedins play live on many occasions (nearly 250 home games in the past seven seasons). I suppose I just consider playing hard and battling in tight corners against defenders 50 pounds heavier than you night in and night out to be gritty. I suppose not the kind of Boston Bruins gritty where they play like weasels between the whistles and then spear you and rabbit punch you in the back of the head after every whistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal Colle Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Vrbs da clutchest player Canucks got along with Bonino, Sedins, Higgy burr etc. win the Calder trophy Bo ho or Shinkaruk u guys r da best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I suppose I just consider playing hard and battling in tight corners against defenders 50 pounds heavier than you night in and night out to be gritty. I suppose not the kind of Boston Bruins gritty where they play like weasels between the whistles and then spear you and rabbit punch you in the back of the head after every whistle. Well said .. some folks obviously never played the game 'on ice' .. Sedins are tough as hell .. I'll bet they could still pass some of those serious fitness tests they use as bench marks for 'special forces' personnel. The high-light of my 'hockey facination' would be to see Daniel put DB Duncan Keith into a choke-hold with one hand, while he 'bi*ch-slapped' him with the other .. a man can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 People seem to forget that before Xmas last year the Sedin's were both on pace for 100 point seasons. I believe Tort's grueling system eventually made its affect on them. Yeah,the Sedin bashers also forgot Hank was injured in early January and pulled himself out of the NHL and Olympics. The fact that Dan lost Hank and had the wear and tear of being overplayed by Tootsie plus the Olympic gig coupled with the Tootsie meltdown/Santo injury/Burr MIA season were major factors. Kesler wanting out and Luo wanting out disractions. Torts lost the team,Gillis lost his team and the team eventually became overcome with the negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I suppose I just consider playing hard and battling in tight corners against defenders 50 pounds heavier than you night in and night out to be gritty. I suppose not the kind of Boston Bruins gritty where they play like weasels between the whistles and then spear you and rabbit punch you in the back of the head after every whistle. The Sedins are plenty tough enough and much tougher than most hockey fans outside of Canuck nation give them credit for, but much like the exaggerated comment the Sedins are playing against defenders 50 pounds heavier night in and night out (last time I checked, the Sedins clocked in at 187 to 188 pounds and there is barely a handful of d-men in the NHL who weigh in at >235), it seems like your view of the Sedins' grittiness much be just a tad exaggerated. Yup, the Sedins play tough between the whistles, and put up with a lot of abuse from schmos who try to intimidate/agitate them, but they have shown that their productivity drops off when the physicality ramps up. Henrik Sedin: Reg. Season PPG: 0.83; Reg. Season +/-: +203 / Playoffs PPG: 0.75 (nearly 10% drop); Playoff +/-: -15 Daniel Sedin: Reg. Season PPG: 0.82; Reg. Season +/-: +172 / Playoffs PPG: 0.70 (nearly 15% drop); Playoff +/-: -11 Still decent productivity for the playoffs, but if they had another "gear" of grittiness, I'm guessing their playoff productivity would equal their regular season productivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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