nuck luck Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I was having a discussion on another thread defending the Sedins contract, when I came up with a solution that might improve the number of draft picks we get in each draft... Once the Sedins begin to decline and start playing the 2nd line or possibly the 3rd, I think it might be an option to start playing our mediocre prospects on the same line with them. This could greatly enhance their (prospects) production and inflate their numbers so that other GM's might target them and make some ridiculous trade offers? As long as the player is defensively sound and he has an iota of skills, it wouldn't hurt us too much in terms of on-ice results and we could get some solid picks in return. Question is: Which of our mediocre prospects would be ideal for the Sedins line in the future? Maybe a player like Labate? Big, some skills, defensively sound and probably not good enough for the NHL....But, if he was put on a line with the Sedins, he could put up some serious points and some GMs will bite and give us some solid offers. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdatb Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The Sedins purpose is not to increase the value of fringe players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 OP you clearly have not watched Lee Stempniak play with Crosby, just because you play with a good player doesn't make you look any better of a hockey player. In fact Stempniak looked worse playing with Crosby because he looked like a talentless player who didn't have any hockey sense because he couldn't keep up with Crosby. The fans end up turning on that player like that as well especially if he misses a good opportunity or loses the puck. Terrible terrible plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazmanian Devil Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Pretty sure NHL GM's are a little bit smarter then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Just an impossibly painful way to build a hockey team. The Sedins purpose is not to increase the value of fringe players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Pretty sure NHL GM's are a little bit smarter then that. But Mike Gillis said he did that with Hodgson in order to trade him. And he was nhl gm so he must have known what he was doing. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'd rather just spread the wealth with them (even now I think that would be good, since each of them at least has the talent to carry their line). With the dearth of talent on our team in terms of readily available vets to carry the load going forward, I think it just makes sense to at least have them each lead a line instead of getting anchored down by guys with no offensive potential. Shinkaruk/ Virtanen - Hank - Jensen Danny - McCann/ Horvat - Kassian/ Vey That looks much better than something like Danny - Hank - Zalewski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex425 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Nope, rather put great prospects with the Sedins and develop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Didn't work for Anson Carter, no reason to believe it'll work for anyone else. People know the Sedins inflate everyones stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyHatnDart Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Interesting notion. Kind of have to agree that simply plugging in a fringe player will do more bamr (edit: <---BAMR!? Wtf..."harm") then good. However, putting an offensively minded individual there (Jensen, Shink) isn't a bad idea down the road. I don't think the big power forward style player works as well for them. Kind of proved that in the past already. Granted we haven't had a Lucic calibre power forward type with them. They need someone who can keep their stick on the ice, know their tendencies and be able to read the play. I think that's why Burrows enjoyed so much success playing with them, and why he earned a big payday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger-Hearted Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Under Benning, Gilman, and Desjardins, our prospects are going to be just fine. There's no need to have the Sedins "carry" a prospect or two. The Sedins aren't going to be around forever and they, themselves, were once prospects too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackers Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 OP you clearly have not watched Lee Stempniak play with Crosby, just because you play with a good player doesn't make you look any better of a hockey player. In fact Stempniak looked worse playing with Crosby because he looked like a talentless player who didn't have any hockey sense because he couldn't keep up with Crosby. The fans end up turning on that player like that as well especially if he misses a good opportunity or loses the puck. Terrible terrible plan. To be fair, Crosby and the Sedins are completely different beasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNeil Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 No logic at all. So the Sedins decline to being 2nd or 3rd line players.Yet you want to play fringe players with them, in order to tangibly inflate that players stats to the point it will increase trade value. If the Sedins are able to do this, then its clear they shouldn't have been demoted to a lower line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S.Strowbridge Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Didn't work for Anson Carter, no reason to believe it'll work for anyone else. People know the Sedins inflate everyones stats. Anson Carter got a $2.5 million contract as a result of that season. I think it worked. His boosted numbers made him seem for valuable than he was. If he wasn't a free agent, the Canucks could have gotten more for him than he was worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 OP you clearly have not watched Lee Stempniak play with Crosby, just because you play with a good player doesn't make you look any better of a hockey player. In fact Stempniak looked worse playing with Crosby because he looked like a talentless player who didn't have any hockey sense because he couldn't keep up with Crosby. The fans end up turning on that player like that as well especially if he misses a good opportunity or loses the puck. Terrible terrible plan. Kunitz/Dupius with Crosby Burrows with the Sedins Cheechoo with Thornton Bozak with Kessel etc. It can and has worked. Still, not the greatest idea, better to play one of the good prospects with them (Shinkaruk, Virtanen, Jensen, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 More nuck luck please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedintwinpowersactivate Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Winning the draft lottery could work too. Hopefully we are in the playoffs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Pretty sure NHL GM's are a little bit smarter then that. This. It's why Jason King didn't sign a massive contract, Taylor Pyatt toiled away and Trent Klatt disappeared. If you can put up significant goals along side them, maybe you get a deal as a free agent, but teams would be hesitant to overpay in a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 But Mike Gillis said he did that with Hodgson in order to trade him. And he was nhl gm so he must have known what he was doing. Right? Saw the and totally get it, but for those who don't, I'll take this seriously for a moment. That was a completely different situation from what the OP is suggesting. Hodgson wasn't matched with elite skill players to make him look more talented than he was. He was sheltered with butter soft matchups and favorable zonestarts, so as to cover up his deficiencies in skating and defensive awareness. With respect to Hansen and Raymond (Hodgson's most frequent wingers that year), they're not the Sedins. They were a pair of great skaters who had excellent two-way games and were among the team's best defensive forwards. They were there to protect Hodgson from himself. They were talented enough to help pad his stats during soft minutes, but it's not like they carried Hodgson offensively (the one area where he was the most talented player on that line). And we saw this proven after the trade. Hodgson produced offense but he was abysmal defensively and bled goals against with the Sabres. Defensively speaking, he gave the coaches fits, eventually resulting in benchings and demotions, and trying him out on the wing, as he struggled to cover the ice as a top-six centreman at the NHL level. He still had the offensive skills to be a good NHL player, and he's slowly improving his weak areas with time, but Hodgson was a fair ways away from being an effective NHL centre when we traded him (in terms of a having a complete 200 foot game) and he's still not really a player I'd want centering one of the Canucks' top lines. His usage leading up to the trade was very effective in disguising these shortcomings. This was a well thought out and very shrewd move by Gillis and it paid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck luck Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 The Sedins purpose is not to increase the value of fringe players Haha Yes, thanks for that...but I'm talking about a by-product. A secondary service/product that is produced as a result of using the Sedins in their primary role as players, leaders, mentors, etc. Warning: Topics on CDC might be a little difficult to comprehend if you are unable to dissect the obvious. Pretty sure NHL GM's are a little bit smarter then that. Pretty sure NHL GM's are not that smart. There are more idiotic and desperate moves that I've witnessed in the NHL than any other operation or business... Just an impossibly painful way to build a hockey team. Yes, just plugging in any player would make this process very painful. However, did you not notice this sentence, "As long as the player is defensively sound and he has an iota of skills, it wouldn't hurt us too much in terms of on-ice results and we could get some solid picks in return." No matter which method you prefer, rebuilding is a painful process. However, if the prospect doesn't hurt the teams performance and the Sedins can inflate their production numbers....why is this "impossibly painful"? At worst, we could use that prospect for trade options or to add to another, bigger, trade. I'd rather just spread the wealth with them (even now I think that would be good, since each of them at least has the talent to carry their line). With the dearth of talent on our team in terms of readily available vets to carry the load going forward, I think it just makes sense to at least have them each lead a line instead of getting anchored down by guys with no offensive potential. Shinkaruk/ Virtanen - Hank - Jensen Danny - McCann/ Horvat - Kassian/ Vey That looks much better than something like Danny - Hank - Zalewski I get your point. I think we've got some pretty good prospects at the moment that will be fighting for the top 6 positions already.... your lines will most likely happen, however, I'm talking a little later. The prospects will probably start with one of the Sedins on their line, but eventually, the Sedins will age and won't be carrying that line as they should. To prolong their career....they need to play together in their later years to get the most production. At this point in time....yes, putting in a Grade A prospect from coming drafts might be better. However, when those prospects are ready, we need to pair them with other younger players to build chemistry (and other reasons). If these players gel and can fill out the top 6, than the Sedins will be better utilized on the 3rd line, and if so, we could put a prospect that is defensively sound, has some size and is only lacking in skills with them....the Sedins are the perfect pair to inflate his stats for future trades. Nope, rather put great prospects with the Sedins and develop them. Yes, I agree...but read above for another point of view or option. No logic at all. So the Sedins decline to being 2nd or 3rd line players. Yet you want to play fringe players with them, in order to tangibly inflate that players stats to the point it will increase trade value. If the Sedins are able to do this, then its clear they shouldn't have been demoted to a lower line. There will come a time when the Sedins won't be able to handle playing against the opponents top lines anymore....not to mention, we will need to start leaning on the prospects, we have now, to take a bigger role. The best ROI from the Sedins in the future will be when we can pair the Sedins line against the opponents weaker lines....the not-so-skilled players, that the Sedins can still work their magic on. These guys won't lose their passing skills, maybe their speed slows down, shot rates go down, or they don't have the endurance that they used to....but passing the puck between them, puck possession, should still be at a high rate against lower quality players. As long as the "fringe" player isn't a liability (so I said, defensively sound) than the Sedins could very easily inflate our prospects production....they've been doing this for years already. This seems fairly reasonable and logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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