Bure to Mogilny Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Seems these kings players think they can do what they want out of the rink now theyve win the cup twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Very much so. Pro athletes should never be above the law Then can you explain this issue and Hope Solo? I sure hope you and etsen3 don't call these overreactions "justice". The court of public opinion, guided by the media and gullible masses, presumes guilty until proven innocent. That's not the way the "law" works. This is why suspending/releasing players merely for being accused of a crime is a really stupid thing to do, and puts these leagues in a position to get the living crap sued out of them. I think when the leagues think a little more clearly, they'll revise things to better suit rationality -- suspending/releasing players who are criminally found guilty. This is why leagues should not be in the business of law enforcement and policing players' lives outside league-related venues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 He's still drawing pay. He just can't practice, or play for the team until it's investigated. He's also out on $50,000 bail. Why shouldn't it count towards the cap? He's not in jail. It will go to court to see what a jury says. Sounds fair to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Guilty until proven innocent eh CDC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Guilty until proven innocent eh CDC? Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware he was kicked out of the NHL forever, and found guilty by Judge Dredd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THERETOOL Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 just dropped him in my fantasy league .. if he isn't guilty and he comes right back I'm gonna be choked Hope people wait for more information before jumping to conclusions on this one. I'm in criminology major myself and i've read up plenty of cases thrown out for domestic violence. Actually read one where a woman filed a report to the police because her husband threw a pillow at her this is exactly what i was thinking !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware he was kicked out of the NHL forever, and found guilty by Judge Dredd. Most of the people here seem ready to throw the book at the guy after reading an article or two saying he was arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Most of the people here seem ready to throw the book at the guy after reading an article or two saying he was arrested. You'll notice this mirrors the extreme vast majority of cases that go through the "court of public opinion" -- not limited to sports leagues. Even if he's getting paid, if he's not guilty, I hope he successfully sues the team and/or league. No one should be punished or unable to perform their job merely for being formally accused of a crime. That's an overstep of boundaries by these leagues that are not law enforcement. At the moment, the NHL and NFL (and their teams) are weighing their possible PR losses from public stupidity, which is why they started pre-emptively punishing players, However, once they start losing more in court, they'll go back to doing things rationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking mama Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 You'll notice this mirrors the extreme vast majority of cases that go through the "court of public opinion" -- not limited to sports leagues. Even if he's getting paid, if he's not guilty, I hope he successfully sues the team and/or league. No one should be punished or unable to perform their job merely for being formally accused of a crime. That's an overstep of boundaries by these leagues that are not law enforcement. At the moment, the NHL and NFL (and their teams) are weighing their possible PR losses from public stupidity, which is why they started pre-emptively punishing players, However, once they start losing more in court, they'll go back to doing things rationally. Wrong. Lawsuits could easily move on the organization or the NHL from the other-direction. What if a subsequent incident of violence results from Voyonov's violent temper or his lack of self-control & he permanently harms another player on the ice, an employee in the dressingroom, or someone he encounters in an arena while representing the LA Kings. He was arrested & his case is currently under investigation for a violent crime & the organization/NHL needs to protect their staff & patrons with due diligence. I'm not saying that Voyonov would go postal or anything,...but - what if he did go postal? It's reasonable & fair for any company to be cautious about their employee's mental state - with the evidence they already have...until he has been psychologically assessed or properly investigated. The dude is obviously under some stress here, and not functioning within normal parameters. He could use the time-off in relief. By not subjecting him to further questionings from the ever-present media at the arena...or the negative fan-reactions he may draw as a visitor to rinks around the NHL....I think the league's decision is not only fair to the parties concerned,..but it also demonstrates some compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gross-Misconduct Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Seems these kings players think they can do what they want out of the rink now theyve win the cup twice Iknorite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Wrong. Lawsuits could easily move on the organization or the NHL from the other-direction. What if a subsequent incident of violence results from Voyonov's violent temper or his lack of self-control & he permanently harms another player on the ice, an employee in the dressingroom, or someone he encounters in an arena while representing the LA Kings. He was arrested & his case is currently under investigation for a very violent crime & the organization/NHL needs to protect their staff & patrons with due diligence. I'm not saying that Voyonov would go postal or anything,...but - what if he did go postal? It's reasonable & fair for any company to be cautious about their employee's mental state - with the evidence they already have...until he has been psychologically assessed or properly investigated. The dude is obviously under some stress here, and not functioning within normal perameters. He could use the time-off in relief. By not subjecting him to further questionings from the ever-present media at the arena...or the negative fan-reactions he may draw as a visitor to rinks around the NHL....I think the league's decision is not only fair to the parties concerned,..but it also demonstrates some compassion. Wrong. Terrible post. There's no compassion in overreacting in this fashion, and you said it yourself, it's "under investigation". Players are regularly violent in the NHL, so on the ice means nothing to me.. there were people with no criminal past swinging sticks at others' heads. Going off in the locker room and attacking people? You've got quite the imagination trying to trump up domestic violence as something serious like manslaughter, attempted murder, or murder, along with these oddball psychological assessments of someone you've never even met or know about. If it was thought he was an actual threat to others, he would not even be able to post bail. I think that speaks for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 18-A is the section of the CBA relevant if anyone wants to look at it. Copy and paste isn't being kind to me at the moment, not that it's pretty to look at - classic Commissioner Decides Everything legalese. Does seem like there should be a hearing before the suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking mama Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Wrong. Terrible post. There's no compassion in overreacting in this fashion, and you said it yourself, it's "under investigation". Players are regularly violent in the NHL, so on the ice means nothing to me.. there were people with no criminal past swinging sticks at others' heads. Going off in the locker room and attacking people? You've got quite the imagination trying to trump up domestic violence as something serious like manslaughter, attempted murder, or murder, along with these oddball psychological assessments of someone you've never even met or know about. If it was thought he was an actual threat to others, he would not even be able to post bail. I think that speaks for itself. If you think anyone who commits a battery in a spousal-abuse situation,..SHOULDN'T undergo some psychiatric assessment of some kind,...you are NOT thinking rationally yourself. That's where the help can begin. Not talkin' about meds or institutional care,..or even lock-up. But - a person who does not live within a society safely with others, should be assessed....if they hope to live & function freely within that society. I'm sure he has had this. But - he could have more meetings of this kind scheduled - after bail, which is often conditional. One's troubles & back-stories routed-out will open up the opportunity for discussion so that deep-seeded issues may be dealt with properly. Otherwise, it's all left to be a freakin' crap-shoot and a mystery....when another such episode will occur, ...& all the more reason for his family, co-workers, teammates, employers, sponsers, neighbours & the public at large to remain concerned & take precautions... for their future health & safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 If you think anyone who commits a battery in a spousal-abuse situation,..SHOULDN'T undergo some psychiatric assessment of some kind,...you are NOT thinking rationally yourself. That's where the help can begin. Not talkin' about meds or institutional care,..or even lock-up. But - a person who does not live in society safely with others ,should be assessed. I'm sure he has had this. But - he could have more meetings of this kind scheduled - after bail, which is often conditional. One's troubles & back-stories routed-out will open up the opportunity for discussion so that deep-seeded issues may be dealt with properly. Otherwise, it's all left to be a freakin' crap-shoot and a mystery....when another such episode will occur, ...& all the more reason for his family, co-workers, teammates, employers, sponsers, neighbours & the public at large to remain concerned & take precautions... for their future health & safety. It's like I'm reading Nancy Grace on the Duke lacrosse case. This is all SOP formalities for someone accused of a violent crime. All of this other stuff you're injecting is pure speculation and ridiculousness. I'll give you credit, though, for the media-like ability to exaggerate the living crap outta this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking mama Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 It's like I'm reading Nancy Grace on the Duke lacrosse case. This is all SOP formalities for someone accused of a violent crime. All of this other stuff you're injecting is pure speculation and ridiculousness. I'll give you credit, though, for the media-like ability to exaggerate the living crap outta this matter. ^I think Nancy Grace is great! I will take that remark as a compliment. And, yah...when it comes to family violence or mental health, and speaking as someone who's been involved giving respite care & support to families at risk....safety 1st! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I am biased towards the female being the victim and it is wrong to jump to conclusions. But given she was hospitalized I am assuming he's an a** hole. This is a major reason why males who are victims of domestic abuse stay quiet. It's not a good practice at all. I understand that there are a plethora of examples that males tend to be the aggressor more than women - and I'm sure we both agree that not all males are like this. I'm tired of the stereotypes. I've had some female friends go on sexist rants. It almost made me want to ditch them. But apparently, it's totally okay to do it, provided that there's some underlying reason behind it (i.e. Women = DV Victims). That doesn't mean that they themselves have never been victims; it's just that they blame male for some kind of 'culture' - when really, that isn't the case at all. Also, the 'rape culture' nonsense. That's garbage too. It's some excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I don't get people acting like he's being railroaded when in reality he has more rights and will face even fewer consequences that many people. (Every year there are many people charged with crimes, at least some of whom are innocent, who lose their jobs simply because they can't afford to make bail or aren't even given the option to make bail.) Not only is Voynov still being paid and entitled to have legal counsel even with the NHL, as Viking Mama pointed out, being kept away from the media is a kindness, not a hardship (and probably something his lawyers approve of.) It also frees him up to work with his lawyers and attend any legal proceedings he needs to without having to try to schedule them around his job. That, of course, does not mean that being suspended isn't a hardship, even with pay. I'm sure it is. And it's certainly damaging to his reputation. But people need to be realistic. Life isn't fair and often cannot be completely fair when you're dealing with more than one person's rights. So, we have to do the best we can to strive to be the most fair that we can be. Of course that means we should not assume someone's guilty just because they're charged with a crime, but we also can't assume they're innocent either. As such, we need to concern ourselves not only with the rights of the accused, but also the rights of the victim. Being falsely accused of something isn't fair, but it's far more common for people to be rightfully accused and it would be just as unfair for victims of crimes to see the people who committed them going on with their lives like nothing happened while they still struggle with the physical and/or emotional consequences. Any just society must struggle with the precarious balance of rights, never ignoring either side but still acknowledging the reality that sometimes the scale will not be level, perhaps unjustly in some cases, in the interest of a greater justice. That, however, is about the criminal justice system. The NHL's treatment of Voynov is about contract law. Voynov, like all NHL players, is bound by the CBA that his union overwhelmingly agreed to and he personally signed employment contracts saying he was bound by. So, it is absolutely NOT unfair for the NHL to act within the CBA's guidelines. He would not only not have a right to sue for being suspended with pay, no one even has a right to complain about it. (And to be clear, people here are complaining but we don't actually know if he is upset about being suspended. He could be glad to be able to deal with everything in privacy for all we know. We do know that the LA Kings agreed with the NHL's decision. And Malhotra, who was on the NHLPA's bargaining committee during the last lockout, agreed with it as well.) Specifically, here is what the CBA says: Anyone interested can read the CBA for themselves. (Section 18-A deals with off ice discipline.) As we see, the NHL is well within their rights to suspend him even before they have any "formal review." He will, however, get a hearing and has the right to legal counsel. The CBA clearly attempts to balance the rights of the league and the individual player and the NHL has done nothing that I'm aware of to violate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I don't get people acting like he's being railroaded when in reality he has more rights and will face even fewer consequences that many people. (Every year there are many people charged with crimes, at least some of whom are innocent, who lose their jobs simply because they can't afford to make bail or aren't even given the option to make bail.) Not only is Voynov still being paid and entitled to have legal counsel even with the NHL, as Viking Mama pointed out, being kept away from the media is a kindness, not a hardship (and probably something his lawyers approve of.) It also frees him up to work with his lawyers and attend any legal proceedings he needs to without having to try to schedule them around his job. That, of course, does not mean that being suspended isn't a hardship, even with pay. I'm sure it is. And it's certainly damaging to his reputation. But people need to be realistic. Life isn't fair and often cannot be completely fair when you're dealing with more than one person's rights. So, we have to do the best we can to strive to be the most fair that we can be. Of course that means we should not assume someone's guilty just because they're charged with a crime, but we also can't assume they're innocent either. As such, we need to concern ourselves not only with the rights of the accused, but also the rights of the victim. Being falsely accused of something isn't fair, but it's far more common for people to be rightfully accused and it would be just as unfair for victims of crimes to see the people who committed them going on with their lives like nothing happened while they still struggle with the physical and/or emotional consequences. Any just society must struggle with the precarious balance of rights, never ignoring either side but still acknowledging the reality that sometimes the scale will not be level, perhaps unjustly in some cases, in the interest of a greater justice. That, however, is about the criminal justice system. The NHL's treatment of Voynov is about contract law. Voynov, like all NHL players, is bound by the CBA that his union overwhelmingly agreed to and he personally signed employment contracts saying he was bound by. So, it is absolutely NOT unfair for the NHL to act within the CBA's guidelines. He would not only not have a right to sue for being suspended with pay, no one even has a right to complain about it. (And to be clear, people here are complaining but we don't actually know if he is upset about being suspended. He could be glad to be able to deal with everything in privacy for all we know. We do know that the LA Kings agreed with the NHL's decision. And Malhotra, who was on the NHLPA's bargaining committee during the last lockout, agreed with it as well.) Specifically, here is what the CBA says: Anyone interested can read the CBA for themselves. (Section 18-A deals with off ice discipline.) As we see, the NHL is well within their rights to suspend him even before they have any "formal review." He will, however, get a hearing and has the right to legal counsel. The CBA clearly attempts to balance the rights of the league and the individual player and the NHL has done nothing that I'm aware of to violate that. I don't agree with the first half of your post, but hard to argue it. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 The Kings are $500K from the Cap Vovnov's Cap hit is $4.1M League minimum salary is over $550K The Kings cannot bring in another player and stay under the Cap Voynov is suspended (with pay and on the Kings Cap) immediately until his court proceedings are finished. If the NHL waits for the legal process to play out before lifting Slava Voynov’s indefinite suspension, he will almost certainly end up serving one of the longer bans in league history. The Los Angeles Kings are scheduled to play 18 times before the defenceman is even due in court on Dec. 1 — and that could be just the beginning if domestic abuse charges are pursued against him in California. Some cases drag on for years. This is a great read on the complications of Voynov's case to the Kings and the League http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/voynov-case-could-leave-kings-in-cap-limbo/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 He's probably screwed for several reasons... The main one is, of course, Ray Rice. The Redondo Police have evidentiary pictures of his hospitalized girlfriend, whose injuries were shocking enough to call the police. As soon as the Smoking Gun or TMZ gets ahold of them, the pressure will skyrocket to get rid of him and it won't go away. The NHL is an easy target and it always has been, the only time it makes the mainstream news in the US is when something crazy happens. Combine that with an explosive topical issue like domestic violence and a lengthy trial and you have the perfect storm for an extended barrage of criticism in the media, especially from those who are in the tank for the NFL. California DAs don't need the victim's permission to press charges and they can also force the victim to testify under penalty of jail and California DAs are also elected officials, so they are probably going to act like political animals, even moreso if they're in an election cycle ie. think Mike Nilfong but with evidence Domestic violence convictions are deportable offences for foreign nationals, not to mention they can carry a significant jail term, even a misdemeanor can land someone in the clink for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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