CanuckFanForever1123 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 So I know we have the Bieksa bashing thread, but here is what I see so far, and I think this should be discussed. I think our defense is completely backwards from what we expected. I think Stanton was fantastic in the first 3 games, and I think Weber has been incredible filling in for Stanton the past 2 games (He is a +3 in 2 games, both of which we lost by multiple goals). Stanton played great in our 3 wins, and Weber was one of the few bright spots in our 2 losses. I think Tanev started off great the first few games, but he has looked a bit sluggish the past 2 games. Edler has been hit and miss so far, with a few shining moments, but a few lackluster moments as well. Our real problem so far has been Sbisa, Juice, and sad to say but Hamhuis has virtually sucked as well. So I don't know where we go from here. I don't know if its just early season play, or if this is something that is going to persist all year. My personal thoughts is we need to get Juice and Hammer permanently paired together, as in the past they have been the perfect pairing. Now normally, that makes the rest of our defense look weak, however, with everything backwards, it may just strengthen our defense. I am not at all opposed to getting Corrado in the lineup, especially if it means getting the waste of space (Sbisa) out of there. I know Sbisa was a "vital" piece of the Kesler trade, but lets be honest here...He's god awful. I also personally thought the Tanev and Edler pairing was a great idea, but they really have not been a good fit for each other so far. So below is what I think we need to see while Stanton is out, and then once Stanton is back. First pairing needs to be Hammer and Juice Second pairing needs to be Edler and Corrado Third pairing needs to be Weber and Tanev Sbisa can sit or go somewhere else. Just don't want to watch him anymore. Once Stanton reutrns, whoever has played better between Corrado and Weber gets to stay. Stanton should be paired with Edler when he returns, unless Corrado really shines with Edler, and Corrado is the one we keep around. Then I have no issue with a Stanton and Tanev pairing. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I think people expect too much from our defence. It's not nearly as good as it was a few years ago, and I think it's our team's biggest weakness. Unless we trade to get an upgrade, the best thing we can do is try out multiple pairings and see what works best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fateless Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I can definetly agree with one major point you made: Sbisa is our worst defender. Sbisa has not shown me a single glimpse of potential (unless we are discussing a potential disaster). Every night I watch him get out-muscled, our-maneuvered, and quite frankly, out-played. Multiple times I have seen Sbisa have the puck along the board with a forechecker coming to apply pressure, and instead of making a pass or a play, he freezes, leaves the puck on the wall and begins putting his body into the forechecker like he can't move the puck and needs to just keep the forechecker away from it. Its almost comical. I would much rather give Weber, Stanton and/or Corrado the chance to earn ice time over Sbisa who so far (yes, I know he's adjusting to a new team and its only been 5 games) has been beyond disappointing. I just don't understand what there is to like. He does not bring a big shot, he does not bring an intellectual game, he does not bring a strong body, and he does not bring a strong defensive presence. All Sbisa has shown so far is that he is a defensive liability with no offensive talent. Send Sbisa so Utica and pray they can re-teach him how to play and break the habits he learned after getting rushed into the NHL. Until then, I don't want to see him on the ice either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The defense has never been good, and I've been saying it for a while now. There's no true puck movers, and aside from Edler, there is no one on the team that is effective against bigger forwards. It was no surprise to see teams like Dallas, Anaheim, and San Jose manhandle the Canucks for years now. The team hasn't been moving the puck as fast as it did a few years ago when Ehrhoff was here, so there's no defense against bigger forwards. We use to have some speed, but with guys like Benn, Thornton, Getzlaf and Marleau, they are big guys are not only bigger, they are faster as well. Hamhuis, Bieksa, and Tanev are all getting destroyed out there. Edler is steps behind his usual self, and there's basically no hope for the other 2. Kesler use to be able to help with bigger forwards, and now he's gone too. There's not a single player on the team that matches well against big skilled players. No speed. No size. You hope the first line can do some damage with their chemistry, but there's nothing else on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THERETOOL Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 we cannot compete against these deep offensive teams we are playing .. we are thin , we lack depth and we lack that true number 1 guy that is needed to be dominant in this league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 we cannot compete against these deep offensive teams we are playing .. we are thin , we lack depth and we lack that true number 1 guy that is needed to be dominant in this league I disagree. The Sedin line is clearly not the problem. They've been the only ones producing - Vrbata once again. That's pretty dominant, if you ask me. The other lines are barely doing anything. Higgins is a good player, but he's maybe a tertiary line of scoring - not secondary. It's not reliable enough. Defense is pretty weak, but not nearly as fragile as the Oilers. I agree with a previous poster (Fateless) that Sbisa has been one of the worst. I think he stands out for the wrong reasons. I do hope that he gets better and that he isn't a victim like Ballard. He's played good in ANA... so there's no reason that he can't turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Our Defensemen are average. Average size, skating, breakout, toughness, shots. If you watch a lot of games around the league we are far from terrible and far from elite. To win in June you need a elite #1 Defensemen, we have a lot of guys that would be great at complimenting a true #1 but that's about it. We need to draft D's as heavy as we have drafted C's the last few years. Cause we sure as hell won't find that guy on the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I agree our defence has been a little weak. However, if it continues to be a problem a month or so from now, then we can start worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I can definetly agree with one major point you made: Sbisa is our worst defender. Sbisa has not shown me a single glimpse of potential (unless we are discussing a potential disaster). Every night I watch him get out-muscled, our-maneuvered, and quite frankly, out-played. Multiple times I have seen Sbisa have the puck along the board with a forechecker coming to apply pressure, and instead of making a pass or a play, he freezes, leaves the puck on the wall and begins putting his body into the forechecker like he can't move the puck and needs to just keep the forechecker away from it. Its almost comical. I would much rather give Weber, Stanton and/or Corrado the chance to earn ice time over Sbisa who so far (yes, I know he's adjusting to a new team and its only been 5 games) has been beyond disappointing. I just don't understand what there is to like. He does not bring a big shot, he does not bring an intellectual game, he does not bring a strong body, and he does not bring a strong defensive presence. All Sbisa has shown so far is that he is a defensive liability with no offensive talent. Send Sbisa so Utica and pray they can re-teach him how to play and break the habits he learned after getting rushed into the NHL. Until then, I don't want to see him on the ice either. I don't know what's so disappointing about Sbisa? This is EXACTLY what I told you all would happen when he was included in the trade, I watched him do this same act in ANH right before my eyes. Nobody wanted to believe he was a garbage dump, even though I had watched him play about 20 times that year and warned you all exactly what was coming, But whatever, enough dumping, I actually feel bad for the guy. Rushed into the league by the notoriously impatient Flyers, I can't think of a player who was hurt worse by his drafting club this side of Gilbet Brule. There has to be a way for him to un-learn the panic that was drilled into his game by entering the Stanley Cup playoffs when he should have been on an AHL roster. And it's here that I agree with the OP, I think he should finish the year in the AHL, with specific emphasis on re-building his game. I think it can be done because he is not nearly as awful as he appears, he has decent skill in most areas. The problem is all between his ears, if that could be dealt with then we all might be shocked at how good he could actually be. At any rate, if some action isn't taken to help him, I'm fairly sure VAN could be the last stop for him as an NHL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Our Defensemen are average. Average size, skating, breakout, toughness, shots. If you watch a lot of games around the league we are far from terrible and far from elite. To win in June you need a elite #1 Defensemen, we have a lot of guys that would be great at complimenting a true #1 but that's about it. We need to draft D's as heavy as we have drafted C's the last few years. Cause we sure as hell won't find that guy on the open market. Carolina did it without a #1 D-man, in fact, they beat the team WITH the #1 D-man, Still, I realize, this is the exception not the rule, Personally, I don't think it's time to stop drafting centers until we find the next offensive leader for this club, I still consider that priority #1 right now the only guy with the faint smear of potential on him, in my opinion, is McCann, and he is far from a sure thing. I don't buy that Horvat is top 6, Jensen is an NHL player, Gaunce? Top 6? C'mon, and I'm still not quite sure what to make of Virt, he may be good, but I think it's a safe bet that, though the offensive play may end up on his stick, it certainly won't start there. Vey?....Maybe... So right now I see McCann, Vey and Virtannen, as the only future top 6'ers, and that's not enough. One, two or all of them could bust. We need the 200 Ft. player who wins the face-off and gets the puck moving up-ice, then comes in behind the wingers and can assess where his teammates will be in a few seconds. Knows where he can receive the puck, and who he can get it to. Center ice is the most important position in the game, and until we have someone in the pipeline, with some genuine top 6 skill, we can't stop looking. As Mogilny said to Pat Quinn in the 90's: "We all know it starts with the center, so if you can't find us one, then trade me for one!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hamhuis, surprisingly, has had a bit of a rough start. When your best defenceman isn't playing to his best, you're bound to give up goals like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I can definetly agree with one major point you made: Sbisa is our worst defender. Sbisa has not shown me a single glimpse of potential (unless we are discussing a potential disaster). Every night I watch him get out-muscled, our-maneuvered, and quite frankly, out-played. Multiple times I have seen Sbisa have the puck along the board with a forechecker coming to apply pressure, and instead of making a pass or a play, he freezes, leaves the puck on the wall and begins putting his body into the forechecker like he can't move the puck and needs to just keep the forechecker away from it. Its almost comical. I would much rather give Weber, Stanton and/or Corrado the chance to earn ice time over Sbisa who so far (yes, I know he's adjusting to a new team and its only been 5 games) has been beyond disappointing. I just don't understand what there is to like. He does not bring a big shot, he does not bring an intellectual game, he does not bring a strong body, and he does not bring a strong defensive presence. All Sbisa has shown so far is that he is a defensive liability with no offensive talent. Send Sbisa so Utica and pray they can re-teach him how to play and break the habits he learned after getting rushed into the NHL. Until then, I don't want to see him on the ice either. I don't agree at all. Sbisa has been no worse and on occasion better than others in our D. I do agree however with the OP about Stanton and to a lesser extent Weber. However his main point about pairings is his best. We need to settle on our pairings and fast. You can't keep juggling them about and then expect chemistry. The main point for me though is the way the D plays and this is no criticism of Willie because for as long as I can recall our D has pinched and been caught out of position or up ice far too much. Too many and Juice is a prime culprit want to play in the the opponents third and it is hurting not only our defence but it seems to clutter up and complicate our attacks. I am all for fluidity and transition but it needs to be based on defence first. Get that sorted and our pairings firmed up and I think we will start getting the results our play deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hamhuis and Bieksa don't get going untill mid November, been like that for years. Edler has been getting better and better every game under WD and Lidster. In fact the whole defense has to get used to a new system and get rid of the stink from the Torts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocanuck Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I actually don't mind Sbisa,,,I think Bieksa has been about normal and Edler is improving. The coverage in our own end will improve with time and the breakout options are increased with WD's system. We are not getting much puck luck the past few games and there have been a few break downs but thats to be expected with a new system. I personally like how the team has been playing given their talent level on the back end. One thing is glaring and that is when Tanev and Hamhuis struggle it is very noticeable. Those two generally cover a lot of mistakes! Hamhuis I am sure is having trouble seeing with the mask but he will be fine as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Remember when Hamhuis was awful to start the year and then became one of the biggest reason for that december run? - New coach, so system is still sluggist and not well oiled yet. - Bieksa is not 100% - Lots of rotation in the pairings so far, no one has settled in yet - Veteran player tends to get of to a slow start I mean if this continue in November/December then we'll have real problem, otherwise, way too early to hit the panic button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Carolina did it without a #1 D-man, in fact, they .........." I agree with most of what you said, but, Horvat does not have elite offensive talent but he does have elite defensive talent. Those guys are what you need to win. A 1c usually comes early in the draft, while 1d can be found a little later on. Instead of us using these later picks on C's I'd like to see us use them on D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONCHE Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Didn't get to watch all of the last two games but from what I have seen..... Sbisa's play away from the puck has actually been pretty good. Positionally, physically, stick work, board work - all have been pretty good. He's been caught flat footed a couple of times but that happened to Ray Bourque too. His main issue is when he's actually got the puck on his stick. He seems unsure of what to do and seems to always do the wrong thing. However, as far as potential goes..... did anyone see that one shift of him in the offensive zone against Tampa? He went all the way around the zone, was active in the play and it resulted in a semi decent chance. Bieksa has looked a bit like his Casual Kev' days of old. I like him as a player and as a personality, but his play thus far has been rather "meh" with the occasional dash of "WTF?" Edler. Not bad. Certainly not great, not the Lidstrom type play some are still hoping for. IMO he's shown that last year was mostly an anomaly and that the type of player that he's shown us before (When he's hot, he's hot. When he's neutral he's not noticeable. When he's cold, he's an idiot) is the type of player he is. Stanton. Looked FANTASTIC before the injury. Hope he recovers soon. Hamhuis. Please god, lets not have this be a repeat of last year from him. That face shield is obviously hindering him a lot, so hopefully he'll return to form after that's off. He looked "OK" before that injury, but still more brain farts than I would expect from an Olympian. (But I'm still super giddy from that fight with RNH, that shit was awesome) Tanev has honestly been the biggest disappointment to me thus far. I was really hoping to see improvements in his game, as well as that consistency he's become known for. I've yet to see either. As with all of these guys, it could be just trying to learn a new system but Tanev in particular for me has looked especially not like himself. Weber looks great. Really not too much to say about him, A 7th defenseman that has come in due to injury and is outperforming some of the other guys imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erkayloomeh Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I thought tanev was our worst d last night. Our lack of offense also hurts our d. If we could have some sort of higher level of talent on our front line which gets the second most minutes maybe we wouldnt be in our own end so much. Last night i thought that was our biggest problem was no second line. If we could put some sort of package together for a goal scorer then that would help.our all round play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombieksa Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 In 2011-2012 Bieksa was a -9 6 games into the season and ended up putting up 44 points and was a +12. That same year we won the presidents trophy, I've seen worse starts to the season. That said I do sort of miss Garrison, he defended better than Sbisa and Weber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo.Horvat53 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Doesn't Hamhuis always suck the first 10-12 games? Bieksa usually plays better as the season goes on as well. Not worried about those two. Tanev has just had a couple off moments, he'll be back as well. However, Sbisa is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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