chrisbanks Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Part of the background on this is that Santoreli was a free agent signing so he "cost" just his wage while Vey cost a pick and a player. In a few years Vey will make good on the deal but right now Santoreli would be more help.bingo has been called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 David Booth>All Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Why is Vey small. He's the same size as Burrows, Higgins, Richardson, Vrbata, Hansen..Give or take an inch and maybe 10lbs which means very little. Vey is listed 6'0, 190. Not 5'7, 175.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 OP raises a fair question here. IF we'd kept Santorelli, we would have an extra piece to deal at deadline, if so inclined. There was a good thread (longish) on whether to re-sign Santo, & the majority of us were all-in. Local kid, who last yr reminded me of an in-prime Burrows. He might be 'the one that got away'. We didn't get to witness his late-season prowess(due to Hanzal's dirt), but I'm guessing Santo will be $ come spring. Wondering if we might be building a softer,'Mr October' type of roster(top 6 mainly). Twins, Higgy, Bonino & Vrbs all aren't punishing, & a few of these guys have had numbers sink as the season goes deeper. Perhaps add Hansen to this list, & I'm afraid Vey might well follow this pattern. Little/mid-size guys(top-6) are ok when there's a Burrows(or Gallagher) type fire in them. Don't know yet if Vey has that capacity. Maybe JB & WD are sure it will develop. In all honesty, it looks like 3 or 4 of our forwards require more youth, size & tenacity(at least 2 outa' 3). Though we might have to wait to develop this from our draft choices. Should Vey only represent a bridge to that place, Santo(& pick) may have been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancaesar Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I think Vey brings something that the Canucks haven't had in a while. Instant chemistry with whomever he's playing with. And he's a rookie with offensive talent that is actually putting up numbers. I'm not worried about his defensive play, as I know he already has the ability. He killed penalties like a boss in Manchester and has always been responsible in his own end at every level he's played, while still putting up massive points totals. He's got average size, so I'm not worried about him becoming another Jordan Schroeder. There is every reason to believe he will progress. If he's already as good as Santorelli now, as a rookie, his potential alone makes him a far more valuable commodity than a tweener UFA. As much as I liked Santorelli for what he brought to the team, he had already reached his ceiling. Vey has top-6 potential, and that's what this team desperately needs. To those who thought Vey was carried by Toffoli and Pearson in Manchester, he didn't have those 2 guys when he led the entire CHL in scoring his final year in Juniors. I can understand the argument that maybe the team would be better off with Santorelli and McKeown than Vey, provided McKeown (or whomever they drafted with that 2nd rounder) developed into a good player. I can't understand how people on here are already hating on Vey, when he's exactly what the Canucks need looking forward: an offensively gifted NHL-ready prospect. I can't understand how people are saying that Horvat and Fox are already better than Vey and therefore should take his spot. Horvat is a totally different player who I hope will become very good but has proven nothing yet other than he can win faceoffs. Fox couldn't even make the AHL this year. I may be wrong, but I believe Vey's ceiling is much higher than what he's shown so far in his 36 games NHL career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I think Vey brings something that the Canucks haven't had in a while. Instant chemistry with whomever he's playing with. And he's a rookie with offensive talent that is actually putting up numbers. I'm not worried about his defensive play, as I know he already has the ability. He killed penalties like a boss in Manchester and has always been responsible in his own end at every level he's played, while still putting up massive points totals. He's got average size, so I'm not worried about him becoming another Jordan Schroeder. There is every reason to believe he will progress. If he's already as good as Santorelli now, as a rookie, his potential alone makes him a far more valuable commodity than a tweener UFA. As much as I liked Santorelli for what he brought to the team, he had already reached his ceiling. Vey has top-6 potential, and that's what this team desperately needs. To those who thought Vey was carried by Toffoli and Pearson in Manchester, he didn't have those 2 guys when he led the entire CHL in scoring his final year in Juniors. I can understand the argument that maybe the team would be better off with Santorelli and McKeown than Vey, provided McKeown (or whomever they drafted with that 2nd rounder) developed into a good player. I can't understand how people on here are already hating on Vey, when he's exactly what the Canucks need looking forward: an offensively gifted NHL-ready prospect. I can't understand how people are saying that Horvat and Fox are already better than Vey and therefore should take his spot. Horvat is a totally different player who I hope will become very good but has proven nothing yet other than he can win faceoffs. Fox couldn't even make the AHL this year. I may be wrong, but I believe Vey's ceiling is much higher than what he's shown so far in his 36 games NHL career. Couldn't have said it any better. Linden gives the fourth line cohesion since his passing enables him to set up Dorsett and Hansen very well. He can even play that fore-checking style that a fourth line would have, and he's very good at forcing turnovers (as he's done several times). Not sure why people would complain that, with this ELC, the team can roll a successful fourth line, and have a strong scoring prospect. Also, as mentioned it's great to see that, whereas Santo has already reached his prime, Linden can still improve to put up 2nd line numbers as he has been expected to with the stats he puts up offensively. With the McKeown pick, it's not like Roland was a surefire prospect (not sure there were many guys with that high ceiling in this past draft anyways) whereas we can be pretty sure of what Linden brings. Sure, Roland was touted to be a strong skater, a "poor-man's Alex Pietrangelo" if you must, but it's been mentioned before that second round picks pan out roughly 1 out of 5 times so it's not a particularly reliable asset given the uncertainty of when/ IF the player will reach the NHL (unlike Vey). I could see the validity of the argument for Santo but not really for the 2nd due to its unreliability, and even compared with Santo, Vey still probably has the higher upside in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Both players have valuable intangibles with different strengths. Vey has youth on his side with a promising beginning that shows he's a player that is smart on the ice and knows what to do with the puck. I'm excited to have him on the Canucks. But Santorelli was a gem that blossomed in front of our eyes. A local guy that was tenacious, and hard on the puck game in and game out. Like he finally woke up and realized he was privileged to play NHL hockey and for his home town. (The way some of us are hoping Kassian fully wakes up). He would have made our second unit PP instantly more dangerous, as well as another scoring threat if he was our third or even fourth line...right now. The way Linden was almost casually dismissive of any question on Santorelli is odd. That they only offered another one year @ 1 mill was almost an insult. Did they not remember the player others of us did last year before The Great Fall? I can only guess that WD wanted Vey, as some kind of protege pet and Linden and Benning obliged as an act of faith to start a good relationship, but thereby making Santo, another center, expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 On the face of it OP has a point. Re-signing Santorelli and using the pick would have made sense. Otoh, Canucks' management was high on Vey's potential-and if they were going to give him a shot, Santo might have been in the vey of that. Time will tell whether Vey turns out to have been worth it. GM JM comes from a scouting background. He's going to make some moves based on scouting that might not appear to make sense at the time. All we can hope for is that enough of those moves turn out to make it all worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Schneider Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Vey's stats are solid for a first season rookie, however, the way he got those points is nothing special. He still has yet to show any flashes of brilliance... even Kassian has done it from time to time. I just don't see anything of him at this point that convinces me he is a solid top 6 forward at the NHL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Vey is as good and 6 yrs younger. /end thread The argument is Santo and the 2nd. So we'd still have a young guy and a better centre. Seeing as this is CDC I figured no one would read the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wren223 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Vey's stats are solid for a first season rookie, however, the way he got those points is nothing special. He still has yet to show any flashes of brilliance... even Kassian has done it from time to time. I just don't see anything of him at this point that convinces me he is a solid top 6 forward at the NHL level. He puts up points and seems consistent, that's important for a young player. Does it matter those points aren't flashy and highlight reel? He has good hockey sense, passes well but struggles in the circle. That can be learned and improved with experience can't teach good passing. He's got potential and that potential needs time to grow. He's played how many NHL games? I was a bit surprised to see the Canucks let Santo go, he seemed like the type of guy they'd want to keep around. He has offensive skill and plays hard all the time. The second round pick is a wait and see as those picks don't always pan out, the D man the Kings took could be a bust. This will all be a wait and see situation. Maybe Santo goes lights out and the seond rounder is a gem, but maybe Vey develops into a great second line player. We don't know, but that's all part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimp C Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Easily santorelli+2nd. Terrible asset management by Benning. Sedin-sedin-Vrbata Higgins-bonino-burrows Mathias-santorelli-kassian Richardson-horvat-Hansen 4 defensively responsible centers. That roster is better suited for our division than what we currently have. A guy that's as terrible defensively as vey, and can't switch to the wing is not a good fit for our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Easily santorelli+2nd. Terrible asset management by Benning. Sedin-sedin-Vrbata Higgins-bonino-burrows Mathias-santorelli-kassian Richardson-horvat-Hansen 4 defensively responsible centers. That roster is better suited for our division than what we currently have. A guy that's as terrible defensively as vey, and can't switch to the wing is not a good fit for our team. Vey is a rookie who will develop his game over the next few years. In 3 years he will be Bonino's age and will just be starting his prime years. Santo will be just another aging player. People are over-rating Santo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 It's early but, so far, rookie Vey's outscoring 7 year pro Santorelli at half the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucklehead73 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Well all I will say is 2nd rounders are a crap shoot. People can bla bla bla about whatever draftee but until they are in the NHL.....shhh! If we are damaged at all by these transactions it is losing Santorelli's face off acumen. But that being said Santo is only winning 47.9% of his draws this year anyways soooo Not bad +5 with 2g and 6a in 18gp but not really earth shattering point production. Hard worker I did like him, but we really did not lose anything by not re-signing him in the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Well all I will say is 2nd rounders are a crap shoot.No doubt we should make a thread called "Vey vs. Rodin or Ellington or Mallet" As far as vey vs santorelli it's way to early to tell but I'd be betting on vey becomING a way better player than santorelli is, was and will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 It's early but, so far, rookie Vey's outscoring 7 year pro Santorelli at half the price. By 1 point. And one is a + player the other is a minus. One plays the PP with Sedins, who arguably inflate the numbers of every one who plays with them. I like Vey, think he'll be great for us. I am just curious why we didn't give Santorelli another year and just keep our pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuongo Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Rather have Vey, More potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HC20.0 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I could be wrong, but I think Mckeowen is overhyped. There's a reason he dropped to 50, something about him people didn't like. I like Vet. It's nice to have a scoring kid in the line up. He brings intensity. He just needs to work on his faceoffs and his play in the offensive zone a bit more. But I love his shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piggy Bank Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I could be wrong, but I think Mckeowen is overhyped. There's a reason he dropped to 50, something about him people didn't like. I like Vet. It's nice to have a scoring kid in the line up. He brings intensity. He just needs to work on his faceoffs and his play in the offensive zone a bit more. But I love his shot. Yea i think so too... There's a reason Datsyuk Zetterberg Weber Bergeron Chara all dropped too, ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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