DeNiro Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 He's not even right handed... We could've used Lain's size down the road His size doesn't matter if he can't think the game fast enough. The guy's 25 now. This was the season he was going to either push for an NHL spot. or likely remain a career AHLer. Considering how far he's fallen down our depth chart, I doubt he was ever going to get a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 He's not even right handed... We could've used Lain's size down the road When he's 35ish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Those are some good stats. Thanks. Though I agree all stats are limited and need context, they are used because they do indicate something. There was a reason Edler was the worst +- last season. And being the worst +- on the team this year despite less ice time than other players, including our D, does give an indication of how effective a player is playing defensively. That's likely especially true when his +- is currently the worst in his NHL career.So my original comment stands. I like the guy and don't want to see him traded. He plays hard, but we need faceoff wins and he's not getting them. None of our centers are. So, if I were WD I'd give Acton a try to see if he can play at least as well defensively as Matthias but win more faceoffs. Getting the puck into the offensive zone IS huge, but so is keeping the other team from getting to set up in your zone off a faceoff win. Still, if Acton can't hold his own outside of the faceoff circle off to Utica he should go. But we need to give him a chance first.I wonder if Matthias could play on the wing. If so we might have a solution. So be it if you intend to stick to that opinion. But faceoffs are another statistic that delving deeper is actually worthwhile and shows that an out of context opinion doesn't matter much. Shawn Matthias is 46.2% in the faceoff circle - but he's lost only 4 more draws than he has won this season - because he's taking less than 3 faceoffs a game. Matthias' lack of faceoff wins simply hasn't mattered much - he's spent the majority of the season on the wing - and will likely continue to as long as the lineup is healthy. So yes, he can play wing - and has been adjusting to. The fact he's been a depth center (usually your stronger defensive forwards) with pretty good underlying numbers throughout his career on not the greatest Panthers teams - those things would suggest he's not a bad defensive forward. I also don't see Acton as an acquisition that is here to replace Matthias - not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allt svartnar Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Lain has been terrible so far this year And that is even an understatement. I think the icetime he got was just to make sure he was as bad as he seemed before getting rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Phaneuf Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Kellan Lain was a waste of a contract. Will Acton isn't a great player by any means but at least he can think the game at a higher level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Solid. We trade away a fringe AHLer with no real reward. Get a project with no risk and possible reward and a extra forward. Like this deal. Good job Trader Jim! what are you talking about? you don't happen to be talking about reward, trader the? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 So be it if you intend to stick to that opinion. But faceoffs are another statistic that delving deeper is actually worthwhile and shows that an out of context opinion doesn't matter much. Shawn Matthias is 46.2% in the faceoff circle - but he's lost only 4 more draws than he has won this season - because he's taking less than 3 faceoffs a game. Matthias' lack of faceoff wins simply hasn't mattered much - he's spent the majority of the season on the wing - and will likely continue to as long as the lineup is healthy. So yes, he can play wing - and has been adjusting to. The fact he's been a depth center (usually your stronger defensive forwards) with pretty good underlying numbers throughout his career on not the greatest Panthers teams - those things would suggest he's not a bad defensive forward. I also don't see Acton as an acquisition that is here to replace Matthias - not even close. Good points, especially about his time on wing. Of course that just boosts my argument that Acton could take his place at center. If he can tighten it up and adjust to wing, I'd like to see him stay. But he does need to tighten it up. According to ESP stats, only 12 of the 398 forwards in the league have the same or worse +- as Matthias. And 7 of those play for Colorado or Buffalo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Solidifying the Comets for their cup run! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Good points, especially about his time on wing. Of course that just boosts my argument that Acton could take his place at center. If he can tighten it up and adjust to wing, I'd like to see him stay. But he does need to tighten it up. According to ESP stats, only 12 of the 398 forwards in the league have the same or worse +- as Matthias. And 7 of those play for Colorado or Buffalo... Acton would be replacing Richardson, Horvat, or Vey if he were to step into this lineup as a center. You may want to let WD know that Matthias is a poor defensive forward. He keeps making the mistake of using him as a penalty killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 This does seem odd, since Lain is a capable faceoff guy developing for us in the minors. I'm not sure Acton is a more immediate NHL prospect apart from an injury call up, and Utica is 1st in the AHL right now so it's not like they were in dire need of more specific help. I wonder if I wouldn't rather have someone like Cal O'Reilly be the first call up if they don't think Gaunce is capable (or Lain for that matter) than to trade for Acton. But maybe that would disrupt the Comets to much. Benning and Linden obviously have a plan, so I'm sure it makes sense to them. No, he wasn't. Well, sort of. You're right that he was 50.3% overall in 30 games last year, but he was also 57.9% in games at home. Maybe that's what they saw? On the road he was a dismal 40.9% though, so he's hardly going to come in and be a major help over any other player. What's interesting though is they're both Lake Superior State University alumni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Never thought Shinkaruk should have made the team and still don't. Jensen on the other Hand should have. Never said he was a better option than Burrows Unless it was us trading him to get assets. I said he is a better option than Hansen which he still is. Bad attempts at covering up. But you said they both should make the team instead of slow and old Burrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 His size doesn't matter if he can't think the game fast enough. The guy's 25 now. This was the season he was going to either push for an NHL spot. or likely remain a career AHLer. Considering how far he's fallen down our depth chart, I doubt he was ever going to get a game. When he's 35ish? Eh... 25 is still pretty young, so if he's playing well in the AHL he could still get called up. Haven't really watched any Comets games but I'm guessing "he's fallen down the depth chart" because he's playing bottom 6 minutes down there? He's not going to play top 6 because he's not a scorer so I don't think he's really fallen down the depth chart all that much. If they send down Horvat and one of our centres get injured, he'd probably get called up ahead of Gaunce, wouldn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drop Em Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 This is purely an AHL trade, don't fret guys. Lain has been terrible so far this year and I think is the 4th line center over there. With Gaunce and Horvat likely to play 2C and 3C behind O'Reilly, Lain was pretty much useless and never going to crack the NHL roster anyway. Acton will probably never see NHL duties but he's got more offensive upside than Lain who is literally the type of player we need to avoid, and the type that Anaheim are dangerously falling towards. Lots of size, no skill. Yeah, I'd sure hate to have Anaheim's "lots of size, no skill" roster. Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Smith-Pelly, Lindholm, Fowler and even Maroon. Yup, that's an all size no skill bunch that no other teams would want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drop Em Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 True. But Lain was unlikely to fetch us a D-man that wasn't an AHL plug. At least Acton has shown he can play in the NHL. Sorry, I don't agree that Acton has shown that he can play in the NHL at all. He's 27 years old and has played in 33 career NHL games for a team that's been a cellar dweller for years and who has needed the grit and type of game that Acton is supposed to provide and yet he still couldn't crack their roster even semi-regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drop Em Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Solid. We trade away a fringe AHLer with no real reward. Get a project with no risk and possible reward and a extra forward. Like this deal. Good job Trader Jim! We traded away a fringe AHL'er and got another one back in return. I'm not sure how you see Acton as a project, especially when he's already 27 years old. If anything, Lain was the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drop Em Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 In other news I am not sure I care? Did not think Lain was that big a deal. Sulks to be Edmonton and have one of our AHL depth guys be their 4th line centre? It's going to suck worse for us if we have one of Edmonton's AHL depth guys as OUR fourth line centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 What's with this overreaction? This is basically a minor league trade. I would be VERY surprised if either made any sort of impact for their main teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgm Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 What's with this overreaction? This is basically a minor league trade. I would be VERY surprised if either made any sort of impact for their main teams.You're probably right, but it is a curious move unless Acton can replace someone on the big teams bottom 6 and save some cap space differential in a trade for a D-man?Acton's a left shot but if he can play wing, I could even see him replacing Hansen if he's packaged for a D-man saving $1.8 million in cap space. Afton's the same size as Hansen, a great skater, great on face offs and is a skilled penalty killer that plays with an edge and has character.I'm a big Hansen fan so I hope I'm wrong, but he's still one of the most likely parts to be moved in a trade for a D-man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Boudreau Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 check yourself Chip. perhaps you're just ignorant of the fact Holmberg was actually part of this deal. Oh I see... Mitch Holmberg the true centerpiece of the deal I seem to have missed him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Giraffe Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 This is purely an AHL trade, don't fret guys. Lain has been terrible so far this year and I think is the 4th line center over there. With Gaunce and Horvat likely to play 2C and 3C behind O'Reilly, Lain was pretty much useless and never going to crack the NHL roster anyway. Acton will probably never see NHL duties but he's got more offensive upside than Lain who is literally the type of player we need to avoid, and the type that Anaheim are dangerously falling towards. Lots of size, no skill. Lol. First off, Horvat won't be seeing the AHL this season regardless of if he stays with the big club beyond 9 games or not. Second, I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Anaheim. They have some great skill in their lineup, it just so happens their top players are great, strong 2-way guys in Getzlaf, Perry, Kes etc. Look at Cogliano, Silfverberg, Etem and their young defencemen and your point with that team is completely refuted. Anyways, I was never all that high on Lain and getting a potential depth, organizational project without taking up a contract in Holmberg is a nice little bonus on top of picking up a more competent depth player in Acton for us in this deal. That said, this trade means next to nothing realistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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