A little Reality Check (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

#1. Ok, we are not as good as everyone thought we were, but at this time, we are not as bad as last year.

#2. Benning is not quite a god, and Miller is not worth 6 million a season.

#3. You can not score from the perimeter, or from behind the net!

#4. Our team does not match up well against big teams, or fast teams.

#5. Our depth is decent, not incredible

#6. We really do miss Hamhuis, and probably Kassian too!

#7. My family has been to 2 games this year, and we have been out scored 10 -1

#8. We should watch from our livingroom and give the Canucks a chance.

#9. I would rather have a young dman playing, instead of Weber.

#10. I knew Bieksa was getting slow, but not slow as he has shown this year.

#11. I still love Bieksa anyways.

#12. Get used to the fact we will end up around 14 to 16 overall. (Quite an improvement, really!)

EDIT

#13. And I really do think it will be a mistake if we don't move a couple of older players at the deadline

[coastal.view]

#7. My family has been to 2 games this year, and we have been out scored 10 -1

write and ask the canucks for a refund

or free tickets to a future game

they do not sell out anymore

and i'm sure more seats are becoming available

every game now

[Kazmanian Devil]

#7. My family has been to 2 games this year, and we have been out scored 10 -1

write and ask the canucks for a refund

or free tickets to a future game

they do not sell out anymore

and i'm sure more seats are becoming available

every game now

Is this a poem?

[ken kaniff]

The bandwagon is getting lighter and lighter.

[J.I.A.H.N]

#7. My family has been to 2 games this year, and we have been out scored 10 -1

write and ask the canucks for a refund

or free tickets to a future game

they do not sell out anymore

and i'm sure more seats are becoming available

every game now

It costs us about $550 a game to come from the island....give or take

[nuck nit]

It costs us about $550 a game to come from the island....give or take

On the bright side you got off the rock and saw a lot of goals scored.

Probably did some shopping,too.

+1

[J.I.A.H.N]

The bandwagon is getting lighter and lighter.

Not at all......I have been a fan from the start....will always be one.....

It is kind of like having kids....you love them to pieces, but that doesn't mean you have to always like them.

[J.I.A.H.N]

On the bright side you got off the rock and saw a lot of goals scored.

Probably did some shopping,too.

+1

No we actually have stores over here............we came over just for the games.........and will do it again........still love them, was just saying!..........Van is beautiful though! Love the restraunts too!

[Jester13]

Great thread.

[Tiger-Hearted]

The bandwagon is getting lighter and lighter.

What does the original post have to do with being a bandwagon fan??

Very valid points. I know what janisahockeynut meant by "Benning is not quite a god". Benning has done a very good job in his first year but is ways from deserving "great gm" status.

I tell you, if the word "bandwagon" were a puck, those who like using the word would be power play quarterbacks because they can really fire the b-word from all angles.

Nothing wrong with criticizing your team and being objective.

I can't think of one single Canucks loss this season that was a hard-fought win for the opposition.

[jejejester]

#11 this team is 2 trades away from going for the cup and has really good depth for a change (your first arguement against that was idiotic)

Yeah a Toews and a Doughty away. This is a good team but the defense just is not good enough right now. The Pacific is going to be hell to get through. Canucks can look forward to 11-14 really hard games to get out of the pacific.

[DrJockitch]

And the leafs have won a few in a row. Does that mean they really are a good team and not the inconsistent garbage team they have been all year, of course not. Season has ebbs and flows. Longest road trip of the year missing best defensive D man and a number of other small injuries. Can't make the judgment based on 4 game skid.

We aren't the first place team we saw earlier either. I wrote in one of the pre-season threads, we are not particularly big and not particularly fast, not a great combo. We have playmakers and 200ft players but lack goal scorers. We have no right shots on D. No number one D. I still think the D has some good pieces but not a great mix. Not good enough in the face-off circle and not strong enough on the boards which is a problem for a puck possession team.

All teams have holes. The championship teams no what they do best and exploit it to cover their holes. We are a good team but not close to the best at anything. The assessment of a 14-16 team is probably about correct which is damn good in the West which is a murderers row. St. Louis, Nashville, LA, Anaheim, Chicago. Even the inconsistent teams like Minnesota, Colorado, Calgary, Winnipeg and even Dallas have some really strong features. Then there is Edmonton and Phoenix ugh.

Benning. Linden and Desjardins are smart hockey people and they likely realize what they have better than you or me. They also know much better than anyone here how hard it is to make a hockey trade. Everyone is swinging for the fences when trading good players. Give them time they already changed a relatively large amount of the team in one year by NHL standards.

[higgyfan]

Benning. Linden and Desjardins are smart hockey people and they likely realize what they have better than you or me. They also know much better than anyone here how hard it is to make a hockey trade. Everyone is swinging for the fences when trading good players. Give them time they already changed a relatively large amount of the team in one year by NHL standards.

This

[alfstonker]

#1. Ok, we are not as good as everyone thought we were, but at this time, we are not as bad as last year.

#2. Benning is not quite a god, and Miller is not worth 6 million a season.

#3. You can not score from the perimeter, or from behind the net!

#4. Our team does not match up well against big teams, or fast teams.

#5. Our depth is decent, not incredible

#6. We really do miss Hamhuis, and probably Kassian too!

#7. My family has been to 2 games this year, and we have been out scored 10 -1

#8. We should watch from our livingroom and give the Canucks a chance.

#9. I would rather have a young dman playing, instead of Weber.

#10. I knew Bieksa was getting slow, but not slow as he has shown this year.

#11. I still love Bieksa anyways.

#12. Get used to the fact we will end up around 14 to 16 overall. (Quite an improvement, really!)

EDIT

#13. And I really do think it will be a mistake if we don't move a couple of older players at the deadline

1. I'm not sure we can say that on the strength of games when we were obviously exhausted and missing key players. To cope with one of these things is hard enough. So in answer to this I don't think you judge a team on a spell of poor form.

2. I don't think many have said he was "a god" However I have seen nothing so far that makes me think he is other than a damned good GM. I think we had to get a top net minder and Miller fits that bill, I reserve judgement till the close season. His contract was commensurate with his status in my opinion.

3. You can't ONLY score from the perimeter or from behind the net but they have been good areas for the Canucks to produce scoring chances from.

4. I don't agree at all with this unless you mean when we are obviously exhausted or without key players.

5. I agree.

6. I think anyone who thought we would NOT miss Hamhuis was kidding themselves. As for Kassian, personally I think he is part of any problem we have. I appreciate that many won't agree.

7. Unlucky

8. That seems to imply you think your family jinxes them. I don't believe in jinxes.

9. I agree Weber looked poor last night but he was not on his own. It seemed a group "mental" thing. If we have a better "young D" I'm sure he would have got a chance. If you are talking about Corrado he has not been showing anything so far and in fact has only played 8 games.

10. Bieksa, see 9.

11. As do I.

12. See 1. I still think this team will reach the playoffs.

13. Who do you suggest? Personally I would rather shift Kassian and get someone who will constantly compete in his place. You don't win SC's dipping in and out a game and leaving team mates to carry your load. Higgins is also someone I would not be disappointed if we traded.

[Jack Fig]

To cherry-pick a few issues:

Benning is still trying to figure out what he's got here. I have no doubt he's working with the idea that this team really bottomed-out last season, so he's aware there are some problems somewhere. He's taking time to figure out where the trap doors are. There's no possible way he was going to get all his work done in one summer. Moving Kesler and Garrison was the start, not the end.

Miller is just what I thought at the time he was signed, an average goalie. The money paid to him could have been better invested somewhere else. At this stage, Lack is a better goalie than he is, and as time goes on it will become even more apparent. I'm not disappointed in Miller, I didn't think he was a wise signing to begin with.

Bieksa's play has been beyond horrendous this season, and unbelievably, it continues to reach new depths. I like the guy, but watching him is like watching somebody losing their mind. I'd sit him for a game or two, but who is available to take his spot? People lament the loss of Hamhuis, but he wasn't exactly knocking it out of the park when he was in the lineup either. I'm liking Sbisa....but not as a top-4 guy. The D is simply not good enough, but didn't we already suspect that to a large degree?

The Sedins can still be great players to watch, but against a fast team, they are lost. Against a big team, they are marginally effective. Play against Edmonton every night and they'd be point-per-game players again. They simply cannot play to the level of what a #1 line should on a consistent basis. The league speeds up, they are slowing down. Bad formula for success.

As I thought last season, and again at the start of this year, the team will be battling for the last playoff spot...that's where they slot into the bigger picture. The types of signings and trades that occurred in the summer are just holding-pattern type things until the kids are ready to infiltrate the lineup. Regardless of where the team sits, the jettisoning-off of a vet or two at the trade deadline will still be the correct play. Cap space is king.

Overall, there's nothing going on here that is terribly discouraging, except maybe that it would be nicer to have another young guy or two in the lineup. I think Willie is doing a pretty good job. The rest is what it is....a fairly pedestrian NHL roster.

[hockeyville88]

My apologies for locking this thread folks. I made an error in dealing with a report within the thread. The OP is fine and doesn't warrant a lock. Sorry again!

[J.I.A.H.N]

To cherry-pick a few issues:

Benning is still trying to figure out what he's got here. I have no doubt he's working with the idea that this team really bottomed-out last season, so he's aware there are some problems somewhere. He's taking time to figure out where the trap doors are. There's no possible way he was going to get all his work done in one summer. Moving Kesler and Garrison was the start, not the end.

Miller is just what I thought at the time he was signed, an average goalie. The money paid to him could have been better invested somewhere else. At this stage, Lack is a better goalie than he is, and as time goes on it will become even more apparent. I'm not disappointed in Miller, I didn't think he was a wise signing to begin with.

Bieksa's play has been beyond horrendous this season, and unbelievably, it continues to reach new depths. I like the guy, but watching him is like watching somebody losing their mind. I'd sit him for a game or two, but who is available to take his spot? People lament the loss of Hamhuis, but he wasn't exactly knocking it out of the park when he was in the lineup either. I'm liking Sbisa....but not as a top-4 guy. The D is simply not good enough, but didn't we already suspect that to a large degree?

The Sedins can still be great players to watch, but against a fast team, they are lost. Against a big team, they are marginally effective. Play against Edmonton every night and they'd be point-per-game players again. They simply cannot play to the level of what a #1 line should on a consistent basis. The league speeds up, they are slowing down. Bad formula for success.

As I thought last season, and again at the start of this year, the team will be battling for the last playoff spot...that's where they slot into the bigger picture. The types of signings and trades that occurred in the summer are just holding-pattern type things until the kids are ready to infiltrate the lineup. Regardless of where the team sits, the jettisoning-off of a vet or two at the trade deadline will still be the correct play. Cap space is king.

Overall, there's nothing going on here that is terribly discouraging, except maybe that it would be nicer to have another young guy or two in the lineup. I think Willie is doing a pretty good job. The rest is what it is....a fairly pedestrian NHL roster.

I really like this post and it sums up what I believe better than my own words...much better!

What my major concern with this team is, it is a middle of the pack team, with it 2 star players, starting to show thier age.....totally respect them, but the reality of it is that, if no "Big" moves happen, either to get a young #1 center by trade or draft, within 1 to 2 years, we will end up beside Edmonton without ever getting to the top again.

In the 80's and 90's, the Canucks seemed to be one of those teams that played in the middle of the pack, trouble was that they didn't have very good scouting or developement, so thier picks were always middle of the first round....and there we stayed, never really improving, near really dropping to the better picks

There was and is alot of pressure in Vancouver to at least make the playoffs and we are not really known for supporting our loosing teams, not long term anyways.

Long term, that is not a great plan. However, if you look at Edmonton....there is the other side of it.....cause you have to have good Management and scouting....this includes good coaching! I think we are on the way, I believe we have good management and coaching, but I believe we need to revamp our scouting, but I realize we have to give Benning some time...it is his first year! ( I am reminding myself!) ..............(it must suck to be a Edmonton fan! They know the trueth even if Lowe or ownership doesn't)

My only thoughts are with the draft and how to move up in good year, and I know it costs, but it is hard to get 1st liners, not so hard to get 3rd liners...............same goes for #1 and #2 defensemen............with both, you either have a plan to move up or close your eyes and throw a dart and see if it sticks to something good..........I am an avocate of moving up....

I wonder how Benning sees it?

[asian player]

I thought Benning has been very good so far

- dealt with the Kesler situation in a very professional manner. Got us Bonino, who has played above all of our expectations, Sbisa, who can be a #4-6 guy, and is very physical, and the #24 pick, who turned out to be Jared McCann

- signed Derek Dorsett. At the time, the move wasn't very popular, but he has become a very useful guy. Brought us exactly what Weise brought, kills penalties, and is a good guy around the locker room

- dumped an unfriendly contract in Garrison, got us a 2nd round pick. He ended up trading it for Vey, but we'll need a few more years to see how that will go.

- drafted Virtanen, McCann, Demko, Tryamkin. All seem like very good picks

-signed Vrbata, who has played very well with the Sedins.

Only move I didn't love was the Miller signing, but we need to realize that moving forward with 2 rookie goalies isn't going to look any better

[J.I.A.H.N]

I thought Benning has been very good so far

- dealt with the Kesler situation in a very professional manner. Got us Bonino, who has played above all of our expectations, Sbisa, who can be a #4-6 guy, and is very physical, and the #24 pick, who turned out to be Jared McCann

- signed Derek Dorsett. At the time, the move wasn't very popular, but he has become a very useful guy. Brought us exactly what Weise brought, kills penalties, and is a good guy around the locker room

- dumped an unfriendly contract in Garrison, got us a 2nd round pick. He ended up trading it for Vey, but we'll need a few more years to see how that will go.

- drafted Virtanen, McCann, Demko, Tryamkin. All seem like very good picks

-signed Vrbata, who has played very well with the Sedins.

Only move I didn't love was the Miller signing, but we need to realize that moving forward with 2 rookie goalies isn't going to look any better

I agree totally with you......was referring to Edmonton not really having good Management/Coaching/Scouting.......Other than Hall, I am not a huge fan of Edmontons drafting.......you and I could have done as well

If I was Lowe I would keep this years 1st and trade next years 1st for another 1st this year (somewhere around 8 to 14 plus a young prospect)......I think someone would risk that! Lowe needs to do something like this before players start going AWOL

[darkpoet]

I can't think of one single Canucks loss this season that was a hard-fought win for the opposition.

And that's it in a nutshell.

Despite the surprising start to this season, when this version of the team loses, it's UGLY.

2-4 Tampa

3-6 Dallas

2-7 Colorado

1-3 Nashville

1-5 LA

0-5 Arizona

3-5 Detroit

2-5 Toronto

1-3 Montreal

1-5 NYR

= 1.6 goals for per game, and 4.8 goals against

For the most part, the losses this season showed a team that wasn't even close to being competitive - and that's a real concern. Overall, they are doing well, but adjustments need to be made (whether that includes trades etc. or not) to fix whatever the problem is.

Our defence doesn't really have a presence, or a guy who can take the bull by the horns and sway a game. That would be my priority.

Apparently, we tried to reacquire Ehrhoff in the off season... too bad so sad I guess. Love him or hate him, he was an impact player for us.