Before you bash the team, consider this.

[TheXFactor]

Look, as passionate fans its totally understandable that some people, including myself get upset at losing games especially when we're on a losing streak. But i'm not so naive as to say that our players aren't giving it their all because I believe that they do.

Unfortunately, having all the determination and motivation in the world doesn't mean jack if you can't get results. I really wanted to play hockey when I was a kid and all the way until I grew up but I just didn't have the body for it. These guys also make more... WAY more then most people so its hard for many others to show them leniency. I mean Bieksa, if I recall, makes over $50,000 per game. In about 20-30 minutes of ice time, he makes more then your average joe in a year.

That's not to say I stop supporting the team when they're losing, but fans bashing certain players when they aren't living up to expectations is a normality.

[Brick Tamland]

Too many years without a cup and as a multiple decade multiple season ticket holder I expect more from this core. They will not be receiving any grace from me. I will be critical of the mistakes they have been making for the past 6 years.

I give JB, TL, WD a bit of a pass, the rest need to get their sh*t together. Emotion sucks, wins are great.

[Stelar]

I think your first sentence is a case of you seeing what you want to see. You're critical of Bieksa, so you see things slanted towards that end.

A quick perusal of the boxscore shows Bieksa with one giveaway. In fact, I remember the play vividly. Juice was behind the net and attempted to stickhandle past two forecheckers. He lost the puck to one of them who fed a player in the slot, resulting in a shot that Lack stopped without any trouble.

I'd say these other giveaways that you claim to have seen likely happened in your mind.

As far as your claim that he wasn't one of the better Canucks last night, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. However, the same perusal of last night's boxscore shows Bieksa with three hits, (second only to his defense partner, Stanton) and five shot blocks, which was more than twice what any other Canuck managed.

I saw a very solid game from him last night, as did the statistician, apparently...

This

I actually said to myself at one point in the game "Is Bieksa playing?" If he is not overly noticeable that is sometimes a good thing.

[Dazzle]

I think your first sentence is a case of you seeing what you want to see. You're critical of Bieksa, so you see things slanted towards that end.

A quick perusal of the boxscore shows Bieksa with one giveaway. In fact, I remember the play vividly. Juice was behind the net and attempted to stickhandle past two forecheckers. He lost the puck to one of them who fed a player in the slot, resulting in a shot that Lack stopped without any trouble.

I'd say these other giveaways that you claim to have seen likely happened in your mind.

As far as your claim that he wasn't one of the better Canucks last night, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. However, the same perusal of last night's boxscore shows Bieksa with three hits, (second only to his defense partner, Stanton) and five shot blocks, which was more than twice what any other Canuck managed.

I saw a very solid game from him last night, as did the statistician, apparently...

Stats are pretty misleading, in general, because they're so often used out of context. The three hits could be 'impactful' or they're meaningless towards the totality of the game, but we wouldn't really know. Maybe those three hits might have been putting him out of position - or those hits might have resulted in good scoring chances. One thing is that the five shot blocks is very impressive though. There was only one real goal that past through the defense - and it was a very weak one that probably wouldn't have happened in any other game.

Anyhow, I am being critical of Bieksa, however, I'm trying to stay away from the blind Bieksa bashing. It's not what this thread is about. I don't think Bieksa really wants to leave, so I'd like to see how he does for the whole season instead. He could turn out really well.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Every team goes through a rut, but last season that rut just kept going all season long and we never recovered from it.

This will be a huge test for the leadership in that locker-room. It'll be interesting to see if they can snap out of it this year, or whether they just keep tail-spinning again like last season. I hope they've learned a thing or two from last season, or I'll be thoroughly disappointed in the leaders on this team if they let it happen to them again.

[VanGnome]

So essentially Erhoff is to Edler what Mitchell and Hamhuis were to Bieksa? The ironing is delicious.

Reading comprehension fail.

What he's saying is that erhoff filled a specific role on this team, and once left it became incumbent upon edler to do more than what he is capable of.

Bieksa on the other hand requires players like Mitchell and hamhuis to make up for his often terrible play.

The Bieksa is to Vancouver as edler was to Vancouver is only 1/2 right.

Bieksa is doing what he's always done and is being exposed finally, whereas edler did what he always does AND more.

[Jack Fig]

There's nothing that's going to happen on the ice this season that is going to thrill me, or conversely, disappoint me (apart from a lack of effort which always p*sses me off). That's where this team is....average and lacking in plenty of areas. They're not a winner this year...but that's okay. What would disappoint me is that if Benning/Linden started short-sheeting the roster just in order to make the playoffs. As long as their asset management is well-grounded and looking towards the future, it's all good. I can't get angry at this group of players, because collectively they're not good enough to win anything of substance. It's up to Benning to keep putting one foot solidly in front of the other and move along. And when the contracts of these core players expire or become moveable, be prepared to move forward with young, better, hungrier alternatives. It's all about the name on the front.

Make good decisions, Jim.

[Brick Tamland]

There's nothing that's going to happen on the ice this season that is going to thrill me, or conversely, disappoint me (apart from a lack of effort which always p*sses me off). That's where this team is....average and lacking in plenty of areas. They're not a winner this year...but that's okay. What would disappoint me is that if Benning/Linden started short-sheeting the roster just in order to make the playoffs. As long as their asset management is well-grounded and looking towards the future, it's all good. I can't get angry at this group of players, because collectively they're not good enough to win anything of substance. It's up to Benning to keep putting one foot solidly in front of the other and move along. And when the contracts of these core players expire or become moveable, be prepared to move forward with young, better, hungrier alternatives. It's all about the name on the front.

Make good decisions, Jim.

Well said, however, in the short term mediocrity of wash, rinse, repeat why do we get robbed for our ticket prices?

[alfstonker]

I don't think we can say they are getting too old or its Bieksa or this or that. We have all seen they can get it done as how the season started. One of the main problems is "mental toughness" and has been around for years now. When things are not going well the situation "snowballs" and deteriates over time like last season. I know they tried hiring a team shrink years ago but I don't know what has become of that. There is a pattern that this team has shown and it has not improved over time.

I don't think that is how the NHL works though.

It's all about whats under the hood.

We don't have enough physicality under the hood. Once the opposition has realised that we fold under pressure they are going after us.

We need to get slicker and more lethal in our finishing, unfortunately there are players on the team who have shown us their limitations in that regard, for a few years now and I'm not talking about Bieksa

It was to be expected I suppose as we are still a team in transition. The NTC's are killing us (well killing JB anyway)

[Barry_Wilkins]

There's nothing that's going to happen on the ice this season that is going to thrill me, or conversely, disappoint me (apart from a lack of effort which always p*sses me off). That's where this team is....average and lacking in plenty of areas. They're not a winner this year...but that's okay. What would disappoint me is that if Benning/Linden started short-sheeting the roster just in order to make the playoffs. As long as their asset management is well-grounded and looking towards the future, it's all good. I can't get angry at this group of players, because collectively they're not good enough to win anything of substance. It's up to Benning to keep putting one foot solidly in front of the other and move along. And when the contracts of these core players expire or become moveable, be prepared to move forward with young, better, hungrier alternatives. It's all about the name on the front.

Make good decisions, Jim.

Agreed.

In the "trade" section, there're 5 pages of posters arguing over what we can get in a potential swap to give us an immediate push, as if it's all about this year. But in trading (say) Higgins and/or Burrows and/or (yes, please!) Bieksa, it's not a matter of what we add this year, it's how much bigger, faster and younger we get. Especially younger. I wouldn't mind Benning stockpiling picks alone (though, with Boston, we'd also have to take on salary, preferably in an expiring contract).

[alfstonker]

JUST CHILL DANIEL MY GOODNESS

I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of Danny just now. Did you see what he did to Roussel, who is a bit of a fighter.

[Burgilny896]

I'm not too worried about anything yet.If we go 2-2 the rest of December, we will be ahead of where, I expected us to be, at the end of the month.

Now the up coming month of January, this is where we have a good chance to pick up some points and gain some traction and I'm expecting that we do this.

The month of February will be great hockey vs. some great opponents, and I expect us to do good this month not as good as January but, finishing with a winning record over the teams we play during it.

[Quoted]

Team has had a good start but we have obvious holes. I wasn't expecting much this year. I like the 1st line, 2nd line is weak (Higgins and Burrows), like the 3rd line and the 4th line. D is not strong or deep. KB is not a top 3 D man. Love his leadership though.

We are still 2nd line forwards and 2 top 4 D away from competing.

I would more see the Sedin line as a second line now and admit they are missing a first line and a true 1/2 d-man. They really don't have that "threat" element that true top teams have (that player like Sakic or Forsberg in their prime, where every team needs to focus on a strategy to contain them). Sedins were that a few years ago, not so much any more.

[bp79]

Why were you "especially" frustrated with Bieksa? He was one of the better Canuck players last night.

Sure, he had a shot blocked that turned into an empty-netter, but I for one was more "frustrated" by no less than three Canucks who couldn't convert a breakaway. Couple that with A-1 chances for Vrbata, Hansen and Vey and I'd say the offense was far more "frustrating" than anyone on the defense.

I agree Bieksa was fine yesterday, saved a possible goal early in the 1st and played a conservative game. I don't blAME him for the empty net goal, that was just bad luck. People are acting like we have lost 10 straight. most teams this year have had 3 or more game losing streaks ducks had a 6 gamer I think yesterday was the type of game that you see a team play at the end of a losing streak. They tightened up on d and had tons of grade A chances, it sucks they couldn't convert but I think they can build of it and come out strong on sat.

[RUPERTKBD]

Stats are pretty misleading, in general, because they're so often used out of context. The three hits could be 'impactful' or they're meaningless towards the totality of the game, but we wouldn't really know. Maybe those three hits might have been putting him out of position - or those hits might have resulted in good scoring chances. One thing is that the five shot blocks is very impressive though. There was only one real goal that past through the defense - and it was a very weak one that probably wouldn't have happened in any other game.

Anyhow, I am being critical of Bieksa, however, I'm trying to stay away from the blind Bieksa bashing. It's not what this thread is about. I don't think Bieksa really wants to leave, so I'd like to see how he does for the whole season instead. He could turn out really well.

Yes, I find that people often tend to see stats as "misleading"...

Virtually every time the stats shoot their theory out of the water. Whenever they support the theory, they're gospel.

[canut]

Yes, I find that people often tend to see stats as "misleading"...

Virtually every time the stats shoot their theory out of the water. Whenever they support the theory, they're gospel.

+- can be misleading, hits can be misleading. Goals assists and blocked shots are not. No confusion required.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

Everyone needs to chill... this team has early playoff exit written all over them.

That's the goal this season. Benning never said anything more than "playoff team"

And anything can happen when you hit the Playoffs.

[nuck nit]

Stats are pretty misleading, in general, because they're so often used out of context.

The three hits could be 'impactful' or they're meaningless towards the totality of the game, but we wouldn't really know.

Maybe those three hits might have been putting him out of position - or those hits might have resulted in good scoring chances.

One thing is that the five shot blocks is very impressive though.

Dazzle ,you make some effective points.

However,the GM and Lidster know and can dissect the play of a d man because they played that same position professionally.

Maybe those hits were the result of the d man (Bieksa,in this case)not having the foot speed to get back to where he should be on the ice and he took out the opposition-risking being penalized in the process.

D men that can not skate adequately enough get caught and take penalties,which puts the team in a bad position,overall.

Bieksa ranks very high in taking penalties due to his lack of skating abilities.

Shot blocking being impressive? It's a matter of where the shot was blocked and how it effects the flow of the play and most especially,does he screen his tender in the process?

The equipment worn today negates injuries so standing in front of a shot can also be attributed to a d man having to block the shot because he can't skate back in to position.

If he screens the goalie in the process he is presenting undo challenges to the tender.

As a former d man I dissect the d men's play from the perspective of how their play effects the team's chances of winning plays/winning games.

Lidster and Benning will do the same.

The Canucks d as a whole are not contributing to the offense effectively and since Hamhuis has gone down the second pairing have had troubles defensively.

The D needs one more top-four offensive contributor and one of the 3 defensive d men in the top four are expendable.

Who goes?

33 year old Bieksa @ $4.6m?

32 year old Hamhuis @ $4.5m?

24 year old Tanev @ $2m?

[DIBdaQUIB]

I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of Danny just now. Did you see what he did to Roussel, who is a bit of a fighter.

If Daniel's frustration led him to drop the gloves this year, that would make the season for me.

[oldnews]

If Daniel's frustration led him to drop the gloves this year, that would make the season for me.

favorite part of last night's game was when he chopped Roussel to the ground before the faceoff...

wouldn't be surprised is he and Hank are Ninjutsus