Discussion The morality of tanking

[Sean Monahan]

Watching Prime Time Sports with Bob Mckeown and they're discussing the advantages and disadvantages of tanking for players like McDavid. Obviously the benefits of acquiring such a player are undeniable- one only needs to look at the Pittsburgh Penguins to see a modern example of this. Wayne Gretzky would be another example. With that being said, personally I hate the idea of tanking. It's tough to blame teams like Buffalo for doing it, and in their defense their tanking started well before this season, but I hate to see teams methodically dismantle their teams in order to lose. Part of my saying this may be the bitterness I feel towards the prospect of watching McDavid in a Leafs jersey, but I do have strong feelings against tanking. From talking to other people about the subject and seeing it discussed on a couple of different TV programs I've heard some really mixed opinions. I was hoping to see how CDC felt (expecting a bit of a similar bias to mine lol) about this.

Disclaimer: Before anybody tries to put words in my mouth (it's bound to happen) I AM IN NO WAY SUGGESTING THAT THE CANUCKS SHOULD HAVE TANKED.

And to elvis: I searched through the forums and couldn't find any threads dedicated specifically to the morality of tanking. Lay your weapons down sir.

[RonMexico]

I have nothing against it. Just another strategy to improve your team. Just like how the Patriots do whatever it takes to win even if it goes against the grain.

[-DLC-]

I have nothing against it. Just another strategy to improve your team. Just like how the Patriots do whatever it takes to win even if it goes against the grain.

There is no guarantee that it "improves your team". So it's a risk and why interfere?....why not let the chips fall where they may and not "plan" to lose in a bid to win?

Seems dumb to me...totally against it. And the morality of it is that people pay good money to watch these games....they deserve to see the best effort possible each and every game. Give away free tickets for the tank show then if that's the plan.

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

Sooner or later this team will have to tank. I highly doubt guys like Mcann can take over the 1st line duties in the future. Furthermore, guys like Horvat, Mcann, Virtanen are all looking like 2nd liners to me. Unless Mcann do something special, I don't see him ranking higher then a 1st liner. However, I do believe Mcann was the steal of the draft. My reason for this is because he has a under-rated shot. In short, I think this team will be tanking in the future; unless they find a gem in the next 2 years because here is what I see in the future.

Horvat Baerstchi

Kassian Mathias Virtanen

So that leaves Hunter Shinkurak, Jensen and Mcann. Still need to draft a 1st line gem.

[-DLC-]

Sooner or later this team will have to tank. I highly doubt guys like Mcann can take over the 1st line duties in the future. Furthermore, guys like Horvat, Mcann, Virtanen are all looking like 2nd liners to me. Unless Mcann do something special I don't see him ranking higher then a 1st liner. However, I do believe Mcann was the steal of the draft. My reason for this is because he has a under-rated shot. In short, I think this team will be tanking in the future; unless they find a gem in the next 2 years because here is what I see in the future.

Horvat Baerstchi

Kassian Mathias Virtanen

So that leaves Hunter Shinkurak, Jensen and Mcann. Still need to draft a 1st line gem.

Yeah, Oilers got a few of them. Ask them how it worked out.

No guarantees. So you tank and remove a slim and current possibility of winning to possibly win in the future instead? Or lose? Makes no sense at all.

[Coconuts]

And the morality of it is that people pay good money to watch these games....they deserve to see the best effort possible each and every game. Give away free tickets for the tank show then if that's the plan.

Agreed, that's part of why I hate it. People are putting their money into the team, they should get the best effort possible. Someone's going to be bad, but stripping a team down to nothing and trying to lose irks me.

I don't like seeing intentional mediocrity rewarded via the draft either.

[Zfetch]

Watching Prime Time Sports with Bob Mckeown and they're discussing the advantages and disadvantages of tanking for players like McDavid. Obviously the benefits of acquiring such a player are undeniable- one only needs to look at the Pittsburgh Penguins to see a modern example of this. Wayne Gretzky would be another example. With that being said, personally I hate the idea of tanking. It's tough to blame teams like Buffalo for doing it, and in their defense their tanking started well before this season, but I hate to see teams methodically dismantle their teams in order to lose. Part of my saying this may be the bitterness I feel towards the prospect of watching McDavid in a Leafs jersey, but I do have strong feelings against tanking. From talking to other people about the subject and seeing it discussed on a couple of different TV programs I've heard some really mixed opinions. I was hoping to see how CDC felt (expecting a bit of a similar bias to mine lol) about this.

Disclaimer: Before anybody tries to put words in my mouth (it's bound to happen) I AM IN NO WAY SUGGESTING THAT THE CANUCKS SHOULD HAVE TANKED.

And to elvis: I searched through the forums and couldn't find any threads dedicated specifically to the morality of tanking. Lay your weapons down sir.

Wayne Gretzky wasn't drafted and has no relation to tanking.

[Sean Monahan]

Sooner or later this team will have to tank. I highly doubt guys like Mcann can take over the 1st line duties in the future. Furthermore, guys like Horvat, Mcann, Virtanen are all looking like 2nd liners to me. Unless Mcann do something special, I don't see him ranking higher then a 1st liner. However, I do believe Mcann was the steal of the draft. My reason for this is because he has a under-rated shot. In short, I think this team will be tanking in the future; unless they find a gem in the next 2 years because here is what I see in the future.

Horvat Baerstchi

Kassian Mathias Virtanen

So that leaves Hunter Shinkurak, Jensen and Mcann. Still need to draft a 1st line gem.

When do you see this tank happening?

and I don't see the issue in McCann becoming "more than a 1st liner"...what more are you asking for? plenty of teams win without a bona fide "franchise" center. Realistically, there's only a handful of bonafide franchise centers in the league IMO and plenty of teams do fine without them. Detroit, for example, drafted Larkin at 15th this summer which was their highest draft choice since 91 when they took Martin Lapointe 10th overall.

I don't see the necessity in tanking. Yes, certain teams become basement dwellers simply with the natural cycle of player progression. Other teams (*cough cough*, Toronto) deliberately throw away games. Others manage to remain competitive despite never getting a lottery pick. I think it just goes to show the difference in management regimes around the league. Some are undeniably better.

[Sean Monahan]

Wayne Gretzky wasn't drafted and has no relation to tanking.

I was referring more to the way he altered a franchise. But thanks for nitpicking one sentence out of the entire post.

[PlayStation]

If you are going to miss the playoffs and have a terrible year because your team isnt good enough, may as well be one of the worst then to get something to build around. Connor McDavid is something special, blow one season for 10+ of greatness.

[Mathew Barzal]

Love it or hate it, it works.

And I'd rather see teams go from zero to hero rather than have dynasty's set up shop for ten years at a time because they have an equal chance at getting generational talents. And I think you guys are overblowing how long it takes to rebuild, a team with competent management should take 2-3 years of sucking at the most to acquire the prospects to fuel a new generation before trying to win again.

The Oiler's are a complete anomaly. They threw out all their competitive veterans, hired a rookie coach, and ran with moronic upper management in hopes that a team of kids would somehow find a way without leadership. They're a poor example of tanking failing. A since they've brought in good veterans like Gordon and Roy, hired a new coach, they've been a great team to watch.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Wayne Gretzky wasn't drafted and has no relation to tanking.

He does have a relation to how players can be outright stolen.

It's too late for McEichel for us, so onto the next. Come Undone for Chychrun. (Who may be a better fit here anyway.)

[Spoosh]

No morale there. No no and no to tanking for anyone on any level in any sports.

How much does a team like i.e. Buffalo or Edmonton benefit from possibly tanking (not saying they are)?

Team morale, rookie development in losing environment with the intention to lose as much as you can, vets knowing their chances of a SC are fading. Tension in the room as losses are piling up, motivational issues, coach & management and organization looses credibility and players, coaches and staff look incompetent which means they won't get as much money or good, long contracts as UFA's.

And then you draft 1-2 guys that can MAYBE help you down the road if you make A LOT of different good supporting moves, trades, signings and everything needs to work out. Too many moving parts if you ask me. And the infinite set of negatives far outweigh any positives #oilers

[Sean Monahan]

If you are going to miss the playoffs and have a terrible year because your team isnt good enough, may as well be one of the worst then to get something to build around. Connor McDavid is something special, blow one season for 10+ of greatness.

I understand that there will always be bottom feeders, that much is unavoidable. The issue I have is being deliberately bad...yeah, to some extent it's understandable because a player like McDavid is truly special but as posts above mentioned it's horrible optics for the team and the fanbase. I can't say I blame the Leafs fans for throwing jerseys and wearing paper bags. Some people are quick to criticize them and call them fairweather fans, but I understand their plight.

[Sean Monahan]

Also...are people forgetting Alexandre Daigle? Yes he's a bit of an exception but he's just a prime example that these highly touted prospects don't always turn into the players they're expected to be.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Sooner or later this team will have to tank. I highly doubt guys like Mcann can take over the 1st line duties in the future. Furthermore, guys like Horvat, Mcann, Virtanen are all looking like 2nd liners to me. Unless Mcann do something special, I don't see him ranking higher then a 1st liner. However, I do believe Mcann was the steal of the draft. My reason for this is because he has a under-rated shot. In short, I think this team will be tanking in the future; unless they find a gem in the next 2 years because here is what I see in the future.

Horvat Baerstchi

Kassian Mathias Virtanen

So that leaves Hunter Shinkurak, Jensen and Mcann. Still need to draft a 1st line gem.

It won’t surprise me if Baertschi can turn his game around and become the player he was pegged to be. If canucks can somehow manage to get another high end talent for the first line RW spot than I’m not too concerned about this team upfront.

Lack + Jensen for Yakupov?

Baertschi Horvat YAK

Shinkaruk Mccann Kassian

Virtanen Cassels

Not bad for a top nine. Maybe add a little more size but we’d be looking like a real exciting high offensive team. It kind of goes against the grain as currently winning teams don’t have players producing over ppg. Chicago, Boston, LA top players all product at the ppg level not above it. The real trend that winning teams all seem to have is a strong two way number one center. Bergeron, Toews, Kopitar, Datzyuk are six of your last 7 cup winners. Lucky for us, we have a 19 year old who looks like he will someday be able to fit that mould.

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

When do you see this tank happening?

and I don't see the issue in McCann becoming "more than a 1st liner"...what more are you asking for? plenty of teams win without a bona fide "franchise" center. Realistically, there's only a handful of bonafide franchise centers in the league IMO and plenty of teams do fine without them. Detroit, for example, drafted Larkin at 15th this summer which was their highest draft choice since 91 when they took Martin Lapointe 10th overall.

I don't see the necessity in tanking. Yes, certain teams become basement dwellers simply with the natural cycle of player progression. Other teams (*cough cough*, Toronto) deliberately throw away games. Others manage to remain competitive despite never getting a lottery pick. I think it just goes to show the difference in management regimes around the league. Some are undeniably better.

The Sedins' gives us 100 + points or more every year, so who will replace that part?

[Intoewsables]

I've always thought it to be pretty insulting to paying customers to try and sell them on the idea that a team HAS to suck for a few years before it can improve. Competent management groups have proven that it's possible to stay competitive in this league if you know what you're doing (Detroit, San Jose, etc.), and it's embarrassing to the sport when a team like Buffalo blatantly tries their hardest to dismantle their team to secure a top-2 spot in the lottery. I could never cheer for a team that so openly embraces losing, but if fans better than I are willing to watch ~5 years of suckage in the hopes that their team will eventually turn it around ... good luck to them.

[elvis15]

...

And to elvis: I searched through the forums and couldn't find any threads dedicated specifically to the morality of tanking. Lay your weapons down sir.

Isn't every tanking thread really about discussing whether it's right or not? And there are plenty of tanking threads (i.e. Are more teams tanking for McDavid?)

There is no guarantee that it "improves your team". So it's a risk and why interfere?....why not let the chips fall where they may and not "plan" to lose in a bid to win?

Seems dumb to me...totally against it. And the morality of it is that people pay good money to watch these games....they deserve to see the best effort possible each and every game. Give away free tickets for the tank show then if that's the plan.

Players don't tank though, so you're bound to see excellent effort from bottom feeder teams, just as you are poor efforts from top teams some nights. The real difference is what is the quality of the roster that the management has set up between those two teams for how they do over a course of a season.

I love the Canucks and I like the roster they have for the most part, but I've been to games where they've sucked big time against lesser teams only to go on and demolish a better team the next night. That poor effort the one night has nothing to do with tanking though.

I've always thought it to be pretty insulting to paying customers to try and sell them on the idea that a team HAS to suck for a few years before it can improve. Competent management groups have proven that it's possible to stay competitive in this league if you know what you're doing (Detroit, San Jose, etc.), and it's embarrassing to the sport when a team like Buffalo blatantly tries their hardest to dismantle their team to secure a top-2 spot in the lottery. I could never cheer for a team that so openly embraces losing, but if fans better than I are willing to watch ~5 years of suckage in the hopes that their team will eventually turn it around ... good luck to them.

But that's just it, all the fans practically cheering for the Canucks to tank want it to happen, they just don't want to watch while it does. If they showed the same level of support in actually watching games for a poor team as they did for the team in 2011 and surrounding years, then teams wouldn't be as opposed to a quick rebuild.

It wasn't that long ago that Canucks fans were very unhappy with the on ice product and didn't watch a lot of games. Even in the 80's it was a long spell between our cup final and drafting Linden.

[Sean Monahan]

The Sedins' gives us 100 + points or more every year, so who will replace that part?

As Forsberg mentioned, that's not necessary at all. There hasn't been a 100 point player to win a cup since Gino and Crosby in 2008-09. These two probably make a pretty good comparison to McDavid and Eichel, but again it just goes to show you do not need these "franchise" players to win a cup.