J.I.A.H.N Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 With Buffalo most likely picking a center this 2015 draft, I am wondering if Vancouver might be able to get Mikhail Grigorenko out of Buffalo. Young Strong Offensive Center 12th OA 2012 draft. Trade at the draft: Burrows, Cassels and Van's 2017 1st for Grigorenko and Buffalo's 2015-2nd We gain a great young player and move Burrows contract, pay a lot to get a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I'd rather have Cassels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canacks1970 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 With Buffalo most likely picking a center this 2015 draft, I am wondering if Vancouver might be able to get Mikhail Grigorenko out of Buffalo. Young Strong Offensive Center 12th OA 2012 draft. Trade at the draft: Burrows, Cassels and Van's 2017 1st for Grigorenko and Buffalo's 2015-2nd We gain a great young player and move Burrows contract, pay a lot to get a lot! Well Janis the only problem is that Burrows has a full NTC. If he doesn't want to go to Buffalo, then you can't trade him without his consent. And if you weren't paying attention, but we also have a great young prospect in Cassels . You should Listen to Benning news conference once in awhile. And he'll tell you he will not trade any young prospects that may help this team in the future. Grigorenko 14 games 1 goal 1 assist 2 pts and a -8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orka Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I'd like to see Cassels play some more before we think of trading him. I'd also like to see Burrows retire as a Canuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Well Janis the only problem is that Burrows has a full NTC. If he doesn't want to go to Buffalo, then you can't trade him without his consent. And if you weren't paying attention, but we also have a great young prospect in Cassels . You should Listen to Benning news conference once in awhile. And he'll tell you he will not trade any young prospects that may help this team in the future. Grigorenko 14 games 1 goal 1 assist 2 pts and a -8. Benning said he would trade young prospects for prospects further in development and a 20 year old is exactly that more or less. I'm not saying Grigorenko is an upgrade or that this is a good trade that Benning would do, what I'm saying is you are misquoting Benning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 .... or since he becomes a free agent after the season is over, Benning can tender him a contract that Murray wouldn't want to match. He could probably be signed to a 2 or 3 year contract at 2 mill. per season. I doubt Murray would want to match it. Grigorenko is a project player for sure. He's still young, but he has been slowly wearing out his welcome with the organization here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Grigorenko isn't exactly a reclamation project. And definitely not a bust... But he's also not going gangbusters. The kind of prospect you pick up next year when his time that can be sheltered without exposure to waivers is drawing to a close? See how we picked up Clendening & Baretschi for 101 lessons on what to pay! Not pay solid assets for what is less than a sure bet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimp C Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Not trading 2017 first, that pick could be anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I will say this. Grigs was a top ten pick. Big. Fast. Some sic skills. Kassian isn't the perfect comparison. But Grig one of those guys that is intriguing. I understand why he is a target Janice. And also seems to take his foot off the gas, perhaps thinking he has made it, each time he makes progress. So again like Kass, there is too much upside and untapped potential to just give up. Unless you just cannot shelter him from waivers without doing damage to the team. I cannot pay what you propose Janice, considering his production. But I also think he will come around before Buff gives up on him. Its just a tough lesson he has not learned yet holding him back from making it. I think they will just pay the patience game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Not trading 2017 first, that pick could be anywhere Grigorenko isn't exactly a reclamation project. And definitely not a bust... But he's also not going gangbusters. The kind of prospect you pick up next year when his time that can be sheltered without exposure to waivers is drawing to a close? See how we picked up Clendening & Baretschi for 101 lessons on what to pay! Not pay solid assets for what is less than a sure bet... He's not a reclamation project, but he is a project nonetheless. Grigorenko isn't the Sabres to trade anymore. His rookie contract is up at the end of the season. There's no reason to give up assets for him when Benning can just tender him an offer during the off-season that the Sabres or any other wouldn't want to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure.10 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 So because buffalo has too many centre prospects, they trade one in return for another centre prospect?? Lol wtf. And why would burrows want to go there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Even if you consider Burrows to be negative value in this deal (which I don't) then we overpay with Cassels (who I wouldn't trade straight up for Grigs at this point) and a 1st round pick. Add to that the 1st is a couple drafts away so it's rare those are involved in deals. .... or since he becomes a free agent after the season is over, Benning can tender him a contract that Murray wouldn't want to match. He could probably be signed to a 2 or 3 year contract at 2 mill. per season. I doubt Murray would want to match it. Grigorenko is a project player for sure. He's still young, but he has been slowly wearing out his welcome with the organization here. I'd think we could throw some small compensation Murray's way around the draft to get his rights and then sign Grigs. Even if we offer sheet him anywhere between $1.6M-$3M it'd cost us a second round pick, and the $1M-1.6M range would cost us a 3rd (which we don't have), so I don't think Benning would want to lose more 2016 picks in an offer sheet this summer when he's already said he likes that draft better past the 1st round. You've heard my proposals before (LaBate/McNally), but with him left as a RFA this summer, I wonder if they wouldn't take a 4th and secondary prospect. We'd talked about goalies before as well, so we could look to solve our backlog by moving Lack and a 4th for Grigorenko and a 2016 2nd (you'd have to hope they do better next year). Of course this all depends on if the Canucks even want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 So what I understand from your comments is that the offer I suggested is too much......ok, I am good with that. But he does have a lot of untapped 1st line potential, so we try to adjust the offer....... I also have a question for those suggesting we make an offer sheet at the end of the year, Do we have our picks to do that? I am not sure, we do! So, maybe Grigorenko and 2015 2nd rounder for Jensen, Vey, 2017 2rd rounder..............far cry from my original offer......is that better or under payment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Remember, the offer sheet would be after the 2015 draft, so any compensation would be from the 2016 draft. The only pick of consequence we're missing that year is the 3rd, so we could offer around the $2M mark as SabresFan and I noted as that only requires compensation of a 2nd. Not that I think we do, but we could. And that's still overpayment for a guy who has talent but has had nothing but issues/been mishandled to date. Not to mention you're trading for a player who has 2 points in 14 games in the NHL this year, and giving up a player who has 22 points in 63 games, plus another prospect to give up even more. Vey might be a few years older, but I'll take his production now over Grigorenko's risky potential at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 He's not a reclamation project, but he is a project nonetheless. Grigorenko isn't the Sabres to trade anymore. His rookie contract is up at the end of the season. There's no reason to give up assets for him when Benning can just tender him an offer during the off-season that the Sabres or any other wouldn't want to match. I'd think we could throw some small compensation Murray's way around the draft to get his rights and then sign Grigs. Even if we offer sheet him anywhere between $1.6M-$3M it'd cost us a second round pick, and the $1M-1.6M range would cost us a 3rd (which we don't have), so I don't think Benning would want to lose more 2016 picks in an offer sheet this summer when he's already said he likes that draft better past the 1st round. I'd pay to get that pick back, Mikhail should break out soon but if Buffalo doesn't have room for him with the kids coming up I'd happily take him off their hands with a 3rd but not much more since he's still a project. For a 20-year-old I'd think he could still make it in the big leagues (he does have 33 points in 40 in the minors). Get it done J.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Even if you consider Burrows to be negative value in this deal (which I don't) then we overpay with Cassels (who I wouldn't trade straight up for Grigs at this point) and a 1st round pick. Add to that the 1st is a couple drafts away so it's rare those are involved in deals. I'd think we could throw some small compensation Murray's way around the draft to get his rights and then sign Grigs. Even if we offer sheet him anywhere between $1.6M-$3M it'd cost us a second round pick, and the $1M-1.6M range would cost us a 3rd (which we don't have), so I don't think Benning would want to lose more 2016 picks in an offer sheet this summer when he's already said he likes that draft better past the 1st round. You've heard my proposals before (LaBate/McNally), but with him left as a RFA this summer, I wonder if they wouldn't take a 4th and secondary prospect. We'd talked about goalies before as well, so we could look to solve our backlog by moving Lack and a 4th for Grigorenko and a 2016 2nd (you'd have to hope they do better next year). Of course this all depends on if the Canucks even want him. I doubt that the Sabres would accept a 4th and an AHL lifer (although Rochester could use one). I see your point about Benning and his opinion on the 2016 draft. I think that right there makes Grigorenko not worth giving up a 2nd round pick to acquire. So for all intents and purposes he's not affordable for Vancouver. As an aside, people keep tossing Lack into Sabres proposals. The Sabres are about 3 years from being serious contenders. By that time Lack will be 30 years old. Murray has a carousel of young and big goalies going through the system. He's made no secret about the type of goalie that he's looking for. Lack would hold no interest for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 So what I understand from your comments is that the offer I suggested is too much......ok, I am good with that. But he does have a lot of untapped 1st line potential, so we try to adjust the offer....... I also have a question for those suggesting we make an offer sheet at the end of the year, Do we have our picks to do that? I am not sure, we do! So, maybe Grigorenko and 2015 2nd rounder for Jensen, Vey, 2017 2rd rounder..............far cry from my original offer......is that better or under payment? There's not a snowballs chance in H-e-double hockey stick that Murray would give up a 2015 second round pick in that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I doubt that the Sabres would accept a 4th and an AHL lifer (although Rochester could use one). I see your point about Benning and his opinion on the 2016 draft. I think that right there makes Grigorenko not worth giving up a 2nd round pick to acquire. So for all intents and purposes he's not affordable for Vancouver. As an aside, people keep tossing Lack into Sabres proposals. The Sabres are about 3 years from being serious contenders. By that time Lack will be 30 years old. Murray has a carousel of young and big goalies going through the system. He's made no secret about the type of goalie that he's looking for. Lack would hold no interest for him. I was thinking someone like Grenier for the secondary prospect, who does hold some upside and has another year before he's waiver eligible. And maybe Lack isn't their top choice, but they'd have to pay (although I guess they have assets to do so) to get a younger goalie with strong pedigree. I don't know if Markstrom has too much risk for them to look at, and I don't think we'd move Demko, but there's probably something that'd work if other teams aren't bidding seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Here's a good article in the Buffalo News about Grigorenko: http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabres-nhl/a-glimmer-of-sabres-grigorenko-not-enough-20150322 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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