The Flaw of this Team Does Not Lie Within Coaching

[apollo]

Oh the nhl plays best of 5 series? This is news to me...

[aGENT]

Let me ask you, what do the Sedins provide this team aside from scoring points ?

Do they intimidate the other team like the Bruins'/Kings top lines? No.

Do they forecheck hard and lay down the body? No.

Do they burn defenses with their speed? Nah.

They base their value on their ability to create and be creative. So when they don't do that, and the "top scorer" of our team has 1 goal in 10 playoff games, what value do they provide on a nightly basis?

Okay, sure, maybe I was wrong on a PPG basis but if the only thing you can do out there is score points you sure as hell better go out there and do just that when you're the top players on a hockey team.

Leadership, grit, PK, PP, they wear down opponents in the offensive zone. They do plenty out there. Not sure what sport you're watching.

[kassians_fist]

I agree completely. Imo this team took a huge hit when we lost Ehrhoff, Torres, Malholtra and Lapierre. We just haven't been the same since.

[Hank Moody]

Short-term memory problem regarding 'blaming the fans' once again. Calgary and Winnipeg fans have gone without playoff hockey for quite a few years now. While we're currently witnessing the slow, inevitable decline of our team. You switch on-ice products, and you'll notice the fan reaction be switched along with the on-ice products.

From 2008-11, our fans were fantastic, infiltrating other teams' home arenas and trolling the league in general. Then the team peaked.

You'll find this pattern across the league and across sports in general. Do you remember Kings fans being so proud of their team back in the early 2000's? Hawks fans for decades before the Toews era? I mean, c'mon.

Time to realize that the fans aren't the problem.

All other points have validity, of course.

Fair enough.

[Hank Moody]

Leadership, grit, PK, PP, they wear down opponents in the offensive zone. They do plenty out there. Not sure what sport you're watching.

Grit? Who have they hit? When was the last time they drove the net?

PK? They were out for one Penalty Kill this series

Wear down opponents in the offensive zone? Wear down how? Please explain. To me, wearing down is forechecking and banging up the other teams defense so they're intimidated.Driving to the net and getting the defense on their heels. Burning them with speed so they're tired of trying to chase you down. And if you're not doing that, at the very least peppering the other goalie with shots and wearing HIM down.

If you think doing pretty passes behind the net is wearing down anybody you're completely wrong

[Bure_Pavel]

Grit? Who have they hit?

PK? They were out for one Penalty Kill this series

Wear down opponents in the offensive zone? Wear down how? Please explain. To me, wearing down is forechecking and banging up the other teams defense so they're intimidated.Driving to the net and getting the defense on their heels. Burning them with speed so they're tired of trying to chase you down. And if you're not doing that, at the very least peppering the other goalie with shots and wearing HIM down.

If you think doing pretty passes behind the net is wearing down anybody you're completely wrong

They definitely wear down the other teams defense with their cycling game and long shifts in the offensive zone!

[Guest Dasein]

^ Apparently you're gritty only if you hit people

That should be enough to tell you how much the OP knows about sports

[Fred65]

The blockage in the bowels is a coach who will not bring in youth. Just look at the Calgary roster and the age of their players, think of the games they have played during the season. Well ....the pain they endured during the season is paying off come the play-offs. WD has gone on record to say he favours vets and an obvious example was how long he took to tacitly admit that Horvat was "ready" If you're prospect in the Vcr organisation it's going to be a long haul boys http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000432015.html

[Hank Moody]

^ Apparently you're gritty only if you hit people

That should be enough to tell you how much the OP knows about sports

You're right, I know nothing about sports, and the Sedins are extremely gritty players. Right up there with the Dustin Browns and Milan Lucic's that have rings on their fingers!!

Spot on Dasein!

[aGENT]

Grit? Who have they hit?

PK? They were out for one Penalty Kill this series

Wear down opponents in the offensive zone? Wear down how? Please explain. To me, wearing down is forechecking and banging up the other teams defense so they're intimidated.Driving to the net and getting the defense on their heels. Burning them with speed so they're tired of trying to chase you down. And if you're not doing that, at the very least peppering the other goalie with shots and wearing HIM down.

If you think doing pretty passes behind the net is wearing down anybody you're completely wrong

^ Apparently you're gritty only if you hit people

That should be enough to tell you how much the OP knows about sports

It's pretty clear from this post, he's out to lunch.

[FlyLow_]

At what point do we sit back and say "Okay, this isn't a coaching problem"? Listen, this thread is going to sound doom and gloom-like and we haven't lost the series yet, but these problems exist nonetheless.

Alain Vigneault carried us to two president's trophies and a Stanley Cup Finals berth. He now has another Presidents Trophy and Stanley Cup Finals berth under his belt in New York. Yet he couldn't win a series after 2011 in Vancouver. Why?

The Rangers are showing a heck of a lot of push back in this series against the Penguins when they go down. They showed a heck of a lot of push back last playoffs too numerous times down as well. Yet the Canucks couldn't show a single ounce of push back in 2012 and 2013. Why?

Let's take a look at some of the REAL problems with this team and what needs to change NOW.

1) The Sedins are not able to elevate their game in the playoffs

It's time we start looking at the Sedins as a factor that is holding back this team rather than "keeping us competitive". Daniel Sedin has 1 Goal and 6 Assists in the Canucks' past 10 playoff games. Henrik has 3 Goals, 7 Assists and 10 points. These are supposed to be our GO-TO-GUYS ! These are the guys that we are blaming our coach for not giving more ice time to, these are the guys that we are supposed to say "Okay well we're down a goal, let's put our game-changers out there and turn this game around." Our supposed "offensive" threats have combined for 4 goals in 3 years of playoff hockey! How can we not see them as the biggest problem hindering this team right now?

We spend hours (myself included) debating why we put in Linden Vey over Sven Baertschi and why Sbisa is paired with Bieksa and why McMillan is playing over Archibald or whatever but these things should not make or break a team in a series. Those are minor players, they are complimentary. We should not be fretting over complementary players when the real core, the true essence of our team completely disappears when the post-season rolls around.

Look at the last 2 minutes of the game last night. Whenever we play against the LA's, the San Jose's, whoever, we see them completely attack our net and switch on when they're down late in a game. They pepper our goalie with shots and give us a hell of a time to crawl to the finish line. Last night, I saw the Sedins cycling behind the net STILL looking for that "perfect pass" with a minute left to go in the game down by 2 goals! We need guys who can take the hits, take the punishment and muscle their way to the net. Pepper the goalie. Score some dirty goddamn goals! You can't always look for that amazing tip pass or tic-tac-toe play. Give the goalie hell!

When we need our TOP offensive threats to be our TOP offensive threats, they don't provide that for us. That's the true core of the problem. We shouldn't be debating about the Vey's and Baertschi's until our SEDINS are playing like they should.

Basically what i'm saying is this: Our top guys should be SO GOOD that we don't see it as the end of the world when our 3rd line doesn't look up to snuff.

2) We scold and run out the players on this team who show passion and pain when we lose

Remember when Luongo went to the media and said "It was my fault" after we lost to Chicago? Remember him crying in front of the cameras? And we all sat here and said "Get over it, crying isn't going to get us this series back blah blah blah" and "He needs to stop being so damn emotional and letting his emotions get to him". Remember that?

I lost a lot of respect for Kesler when he demanded out, but now I totally get it. Remember the image of Kesler after we lost to the Bruins, sitting on the ice with his face inside his glove crying his heart out? Where is that emotion from the team we watch today? I'm not saying I want them to cry after losing in game 4, but I want to see SOMETHING from them that says "We gave every inch of our heart and body for this thing". I don't see it from anyone outside of maybe Horvat right now.

Kesler and Luongo crying? That's not weakness. That's a burning desire to win. Tell me, after a loss would you rather see Bieksa come out to the media all coy and cocky talking about "Ferland isn't a factor" or would you rather see a Kesler who would always wear his heart on his sleeve and admit to his faults? Same with Luongo?

Guys let's not forget in 2011, we were one half an inch to the left from Sharp's one timer from being bounced out in the first round after being up 3-0 in the series. Remember that? Who was it that came back and won that game for us? It was Roberto Luongo's save, and Alex Burrows' goal. When the Sedins went invisible in Round 2 against Nashville, who was it that carried us through that series? Ryan Kesler. The guy who wore his heart on his sleeve.

The Sedins, give them credit, dominated the San Jose series, but that was 1/4 rounds in those playoffs. It was the supporting cast of Burrows, Kesler, Luongo, and the rest of the guys that carried us throughout that playoffs when the Sedins were shut down for the majority of it.

These guys are the guys that play with passion and pay the price to win. Those are the guys you build teams around. And yet when Kesler wanted out because he was sick of the environment where the leaders of this team weren't willing to pay the price to win, we scolded HIM for it instead of taking a look at what he was trying to say to us.

There's no denying Kesler was the engine of this team in the playoffs. He was seemingly the only one who looked alive in that San Jose series. Do you remember that?

3) There has been a serious nosedive in accountability and leadership over the years

PLEASE READ THIS ARTICLE FROM 2011:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/canucks-keep-each-other-accountable/article570979/

When is the last time we saw anything like this emerge from the Locker Room?

The guys like Malholtra, Kesler, even the Sedins at that point, Luongo, Bieksa they were all holding each other accountable. There was a different AURA surrounding the team at that time. When one fell, the rest of the team picked him up by elevating their game.

They seemed focus that season. The interviews were full of accountability, putting the onus on themselves. Now, we have our leaders trash talking the other team saying they're not "relevant" and where is the accountability? The post-game interviews seem so dull, like they've packed it in before the series is even over.

We need true HEART AND SOUL leaders. Guys who LEAD BY EXAMPLE. Guys who tear their bodies apart in the playoffs and go down scratching and clawing. Where is that on our team right now? Who's playing that role? The Sedins? No. Lack? No. Our supporting staff..Bonino? Higgins? Give me a break.

4) We as Fans give very little to no edge to our troops when they're down. Including "Home Ice Advantage".

Take a look at the "C of Red". The Whiteout in Winnipeg. These are intimidating!!. They don't just "look cool" but they're intimidating! Last night when the building was rocking and our team was down I could just sense the frustration and the nerves of our team when that building got into their head. Believe it or not, they gave their team a MASSIVE edge last night. You HAVE to believe they did. It was an intimidating atmosphere and once the Flames scored a couple goals that building got BEHIND them and pushed that team over the top.

Look at the Jets. They lost the other night and went down 3-0 in the series. After the game, the entire building erupted into a "Go Jets Go" chant that was louder than anything i've heard at Rogers this year. THEY JUST LOST! Yet the fans got behind their damn team and said "Go get them next game we're not out just yet".

I went to a home game against San Jose in the 2013 playoffs and all I could feel was nervous and tense energy. You think that doesn't translate to the players?

We went down 1-0 early in the game and the building went completely silent. And stayed silent. Home ice advantage gone. Where the hell are we when we need our team at the top?

What happened to the days of waving our white towels after every break in the play? We used to have insane energy inside that building, what the hell happened?

5) We are a complete "Eggs in one basket" and "All the stars align" team

Why did we enjoy so much success in 2011? Because we had 3 lines who did their job well, consistently. The Sedins disappeared against Nashville, so the 2nd line took over. Malholtra (and then Lapierre), Torres, and Hansen were a crash and bang line that provided basically what Ferland is providing the Flames that has broken our team down now.

We didn't expect the Sedins to carry us. We didn't "hope and pray" that atleast one line that night would show up and "save" us that game. We expected each line to perform at their peak each and every night and they did.

We had bonafide top 4 defenseman as our 5th or 6th defensemen. We didn't have a couple fringe NHL'ers in our lineup. There were NO fringe NHL'ers in our lineup.

Our Canuck team now is FULL of question marks. "Will Bonino have a good or bad game?" "Is Higgins a 2nd line player?" "Is Sbisa a top 4 dman?" "Will Lack perform tonight?"

We count on all the stars to align just to beat a damn Calgary team. Let's start getting guys in here that can consistently perform and stop with the damn EXPERIMENTS!!! Lets please go after guys that we KNOW can perform!

6) We need more youthful energy

Plain and simple, we need more guys on this damn team that can turn on the wheels and energize. Look at Ferland, he's 22. Bennett's 18 (lol). Gaudreau's 20. Monahan's 21. Yet they're the ones DRIVING this series. Why? Because of their energy. We need more of that infused into this team.

Horvat is providing that right now but we need more of it. We need the guys that come in wide-eyed and get EXCITED TO PLAY, EXCITED TO BANG, EXCITED TO SCORE! Those guys also excite the crowd!

These are the core problems with this team. It's not the coaching decision to "start McMillan over Vey", its a steady trend of problems we've had for several seasons now and unless we open our eyes finally we will continue to see the same problems arise with this team, whether we come back and win this series or not.

/Rant.

We can't do number 4 because Willie doesn't believe in playing new blood over his guys that have been there all year. He would never call up an 18 year old and start him and put him in an offensive role like the Flames have. So yes, while there are other problems, coaching is also a major issue. So is management, so are a lot of things you are saying.

The biggest problem however is ownership. For 2 years now there's been really deep drafts that could have totally rebuilt this team, instead they are too worried about making the playoffs for that playoff revenue.

We all knew this core was done, being easily handled by statistically the worst team to make the playoffs since they started keeping fancy stats ought to finally get the point across to ownership. But it won't.

[Hank Moody]

It's pretty clear from this post, he's out to lunch.

Absolutely i'm wrong! I'm totally out to lunch

All 7 goals from this series, 8 goals against Boston, and all our playoff victories that we've flourished in our recent playoff success and how badly goalies and defenses look against us consistently are all WONDERFUL examples of how great the Sedins are at wearing down defenses!

I don't even know how the opposing teams defenses are standing at the end of a 4-1 game against us. Really, it's amazing. They're so worn down by the look on their faces

You want to see a real worn down defense? Look at our team.

[Fred65]

 

You're right, I know nothing about sports, and the Sedins are extremely gritty players. Right up there with the Dustin Browns and Milan Lucic's that have rings on their fingers!!

Spot on Dasein!

 

Don't get fooled into believing being a goon equals toughness. Going into the corner knowing you're going to get cranked is tough.

[Hondamatic]

Great Post!!

I agree with you 100%.

However, even those 'small' moves are ones that either hurt you, or help you, come playoff time. Willie's choice to insert Vey and McMillan into the lineup, and not Sven, was not a good move. Why not put Sven in there, as he might just have some pent up energy to work toward a great game vs his old team. Now, let's hope the coach sees the need to start Miller next game. Although I won't put blame on Lack in last nights game (as the rest of the team simply showed no heart, no desire, no will to win, period!), but that 3rd goal in the last minute of the 1st was a killer that should NEVER go in!

[Hank Moody]

   

Don't get fooled into believing being a goon equals toughness. Going into the corner knowing you're going to get cranked is tough.

Sure its tough. Did I say its not tough? Of course its tough.

But you need to be damn tough to win in the toughest sport in the world!

[singing chef]

They definitely wear down the other teams defense with their cycling game and long shifts in the offensive zone!

Maybe so, but as Wayne Gretzky was once quoted as saying " you miss 100% of the shots you never take" (or something similar). Cycling is fine if there is someone standing in front of the net taking a beating but ready to tap in the pass, when (if) it comes. In last nights game, Miller was pulled for an extra attacker with 2 minutes left. The Sedins proceeded to cycle the puck FOR 56 SECONDS without ever getting a shot on net. To my mind, the defenders, while perhaps tired, were also quite happy to watch and chase instead of worrying about a shot on net.

I think this original post is one of the best ever posted on this site. It is well thought out and offers valid and constructive evaluation of the current team.

Calgary is leading this series because its players are driving to the net, are playing with enthusiasm and look like they really WANT to win. That's the difference.

Cheers.

[MattA16]

OP, this is one of the best posts I have ever seen on this board. You nailed every point. We need to get younger, we need to get more skilled. Our core group understands the grind it takes to make it to the SCF, and I think as they age the task becomes more and more daunting.

You watch Horvat play, and he looks like he WANTS to win, he's fighting hard in the corners and putting 100% effort. A part of this is the ignorance of a young player who doesn't understand the grind, and as a result is not intimidated by the task at hand. I'm not a fan of the "blow up the core" technique, and a young team does not necessarily = success (Edmonton Oiler, Case and point), but you need a some youth in the line-up to revive that energy, passion, and skill that you need in the playoffs.

The next two offseasons are going to be a test for JB to prove he understands this. It isn't necessarily a daunting task of replacing every guy with a young player. Calgary has many veterans, but adding Johnny Gaudreau, Monahan, and Bennett has completely changed the culture, look, and energy of that team. The Sedins aren't going anywhere, but guys like Higgins, Burrows, Bieksa, Jansen, Hamhuis, etc. are all guys who we aren't going to benefit from by keeping them on the roster. We need a CULTURE change, and with guys in the system like Virtanen, McCann, Hutton, and guys like Horvat and even Kenins who are on the team now lead me to believe we have some of the pieces necessarily to move forward.

[aGENT]

Absolutely i'm wrong! I'm totally out to lunch

All 7 goals from this series, 8 goals against Boston, and all our playoff victories that we've flourished in our recent playoff success and how badly goalies and defenses look against us consistently are all WONDERFUL examples of how great the Sedins are at wearing down defenses!

I don't even know how the opposing teams defenses are standing at the end of a 4-1 game against us. Really, it's amazing. They're so worn down by the look on their faces

You want to see a real worn down defense? Look at our team.

You do realize the twins are only two (2) players right? There's an entire rest of the roster that has to show up with them to win games you know.

[elvis15]

If every thread I saw purporting to have solutions to the Canucks problems actually had those solutions and had any effect on applying them, we wouldn't have any problems! World peace! No more hunger! Housing the homeless!

[TOMapleLaughs]

The solution was obviously to tank for McEichel.